Tale of the tape - Mid Field Blues

[AMPHAR]

First two drives the Bengals have success marching into Cowboy territory and that's were the fun begins.   Keep in mind I'm not a coach or have any clue what I'm talking about. 

1st drive: 

1st First Down -   Run a jet sweep and bad blocking by Hill foils Zampeses plans of a wrinkle ending up in a 3 yard loss

2nd down - Cowboys running zone slowed the offense.   The Cowboys cover the TE with a LB short zone with safety help over top.  However it's really man and the safety darts down to cover Hill in the flat leaving TE one on one with LB.   Dalton doesn't recognize and throws a bad ball to Hill which would have gotten blown up and misses a potential big play down field to TE.    Protection was good.

3rd down.  Dalton had Boyd crossing in middle.  Doesn't throw.  Not sure if Boyd gets first down.  Dalton elects to scramble.  Cowboys in zone had everyone accounted for.

2nd drive- foiled by Zeitler buffoonery.  False start.  Then next down gets beat on a twist and has to hold.  Not sure who is at fault.  Both Z and Ced are having bad bad seasons.  At first and 25.  Cowboys sit in zone and force punt. 

Bodine getting smashed.   Probably was Zeitlers error.    Play action, Zeitler pulls and Hill off fake go block same zone.   Might have tripped Bodine while pulling.  Judging by reaction seen in Endzone view Zeitler shouldn't have pulled.   Clearly Bodine says something to him and Zeitler looks up to the sky as to question the football gods why they have cursed him. 

Towards end of the half Ced just gets beat too easily.   I know Bodine is the whipping boy but I'm guessing it's the right side with Ced and Z screwing up.  

Have to wonder at this point if Zeitlers contract situation is playing a role.  He's gone from a very good guard to frequent errors.

Again all just estimations and guessing on my part. 

 

 

 

[volcom69]

It's funny how Bodine was actually rated the number one lineman for the bengals this week. 

I don't get what's up with Zeitler either, like I've said we replaced one guy and the line turns to shit!! Someone explain!

I watch teams like the Pats get rid of some of there top o-lineman and Brady still hardly gets hit. It's amazing!

So last year Dalton got rid of the ball so fast he probably covered up some issues the bengals o-line had, wondering if he has to hold the ball longer, and it's just showing that the line really is not good.

[ArmyBengal]

LT- Smith (9th overall pick)
LG- Collins (1st round talent shafted by rumors)
C- Frederick (31st overall pick)
RG- Martin (16th overall pick)
RT- Free (4th round pick)

Whit is a 2nd rounder, then we have Boling and Bodine later, Zeitler and Ced in the first, which was a risk.
We took Andre Smith high in the first, but then let him walk.

I'm not trying to imply they should have done something different in the draft, but simply giving a comparison of a GREAT o-line in Dallas.

[HoosierCat]

What's amazing is how they keep drafting late-round offensive linemen despite the failure of any of them to develop under alleged coaching genius Paul Alexander.

Just in the Marvin era we've gotten Scott Kooistra (7), Stacy Andrews (4), Eric Ghiacuic (4), Adam Kieft (5), Dan Santucci (7), converted DT Jason Shirley (5), Jonathan Luigs (4), Otis "my man" Hudson (5), Reginald Stephens (7), Reid Fragel (7), Tanner Hawkinson (4), Bodine (4) and now Christian Westerman (5).

Most of these guys never even saw the field, and the ones that did, like Andrews and Ghiacuic, were lousy players who quickly dropped out of the league after leaving Cincy. I expect Bodine to follow the same trajectory. And history doesn't bode well for Westerman.

[Stripes]

Paul Alexander's longevity on this staff is more mystifying than Marvin's.  He's this awkward relic held over from the Dark Ages who has very rarely produced an above-average line, and when he has it hasn't lasted long.  He supposedly has this wonderful reputation around the league, so if that's true he should be able to find a new gig if we move on.  So move on.

[kingwilly]

7 hours ago, volcom69 said:

It's funny how Bodine was actually rated the number one lineman for the bengals this week. 

I don't get what's up with Zeitler either, like I've said we replaced one guy and the line turns to shit!! Someone explain!

I watch teams like the Pats get rid of some of there top o-lineman and Brady still hardly gets hit. It's amazing!

So last year Dalton got rid of the ball so fast he probably covered up some issues the bengals o-line had, wondering if he has to hold the ball longer, and it's just showing that the line really is not good.

Bodine being the highest rated is akin to being the tallest midget. 

[COB]

1 hour ago, kingwilly said:

Bodine being the highest rated is akin to being the tallest midget. 

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

[COB]

11 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Zeitler looks up to the sky as to question the football gods why they have cursed him. 

The football gods answer, "Your a Bengal, motherfucker!  Ha ha ha!!!"

[HoosierCat]

So Hobs is doing words again:

Quote

And playing tackle for the Bengals, Whitworth says, is a much more enormous challenge than most. He only has to look as far as himself and the two tackles that taught him the ropes, four-time Pro Bowl right tackle Willie Anderson, drafted 10 years before Whitworth, and left tackle Levi Jones, who should have gone to a couple of Pro Bowls before knee injuries cut short his career. Both the tenth pick in the draft. Both asked to block the good, the bad, and the ugly one-on-one.

“What people don’t understand is there are different schemes. Here in Cincinnati, when you think of tackles you think of Willie Anderson and Levi Jones,” said Whitworth, who can make it a trinity. “We’re expected to block one-on-one.  I say we’re like cover corners. We’re expected to block man-on-man.

“The reality is we’re on an island.  You’re going to be scrutinized. But it’s as hard as it gets. We don’t slide protect. We don’t double and triple and help out our tackles a ton. Here, the reason they pay tackles, you’ve got a heck of a job. It’s a challenge.

Also:

Quote

While Whitworth, Anderson, Jones, and Andre Smith, Ogbuehi’s predecessor at right tackle, came right from pro style offenses, Ogbuehi rarely had to get in a stance at College Station.  A great athlete they say, but a neophyte when it comes to the totally different NFL game.

Throw in the fact that he didn’t practice the first part of his rookie year in 2015 and then missed all of this spring’s camps with a muscle problem and about a month of the preseason with an injury in the pre-season opener, he simply hasn’t had time, the thinking goes, to transition into one of the hardest systems in the league for young tackles

Let's assume the above is true. To recap: Bengals OTs are expected to handle a lot and Ced not only had virtually no opportunity to gain experience in the system in practice due to injury, but played in a completely different system in college where he didn't even have to get into a stance.

Given this, my question: WHOSE BRILLIANT IDEA was it to even consider starting him? What part of the above does NOT have "invitation to disaster" on it in big flashing neon letters? Just boggles my mind...

[AMPHAR]

I believe there is a lot of truth in Hobs excuse making exercise.    However, they thought and expected Ced to do the job.

Even though all those eventual high quality NFL tackles struggled at one point.     Ced looks like Rod Jones.   YIKES.   Very athletic but can't get technique down to prevent giving up pressure.    There are many plays in which he didn't give up a sack or a QB hit there is quick pressure off that side.

I wouldn't be surprised if down the road he becomes a solid starter, I guess.   But that's all hope at this point there is a lot of bad put on film through the first 6 games.

   

[kingwilly]

Noting that the team said Ced will start Sunday, so we will see if he got "settled down". Here's hoping. 

Whether Ced can grow Into being solid, that's debatable. My money says he's more likely to be injured long before he emerges as a high value RT.

how fast can they get Watson ready to step in at RT, since Winston is a human band aid...

[HoosierCat]

2 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

I believe there is a lot of truth in Hobs excuse making exercise.    However, they thought and expected Ced to do the job.   

Well, that's the thing: if you buy what Hobson says (and I do) then that expectation is grossly unrealistic. And it's been proven so over the first six games. Which suggests strongly that money and/or coaches egos are driving his role, not putting the best RT on the field. It would not be the first time that's happened in Cincy.

[Stripes]

They probably feel that the only way to develop him effectively is to put him in the game.  Andre Smith's career got off to a similarly poor start (maybe not this poor, but still poor).  Eventually he turned it around.

[ArmyBengal]

17 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Let's assume the above is true. To recap: Bengals OTs are expected to handle a lot and Ced not only had virtually no opportunity to gain experience in the system in practice due to injury, but played in a completely different system in college where he didn't even have to get into a stance.

Given this, my question: WHOSE BRILLIANT IDEA was it to even consider starting him? What part of the above does NOT have "invitation to disaster" on it in big flashing neon letters? Just boggles my mind...

Allow me to ask another question when considering the thought process given about Ced's experience vs. Bengals expectations for OT's and his knee injury...

Why the hell did they draft him ??
I mean isn't that one hell of a steep uphill climb considering they knew he was going to miss his entire rookie season ??
A first round pick missing his first season and then having to learn on the fly in his second doesn't sound like a winning game plan.

Were all the other players they could have drafted that poor in their estimation ??

[kingwilly]

2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Allow me to ask another question when considering the thought process given about Ced's experience vs. Bengals expectations for OT's and his knee injury...

Why the hell did they draft him ??
I mean isn't that one hell of a steep uphill climb considering they knew he was going to miss his entire rookie season ??
A first round pick missing his first season and then having to learn on the fly in his second doesn't sound like a winning game plan.

Were all the other players they could have drafted that poor in their estimation ??

You are quite obviously overlooking the unadulterated genius that is Paul Alexander. How can this be?

Heh. But you are right. He's not a great fit for the offense they intended to, and still, run. 

Guys like LB Erik Kendricks, some good wide outs, good DTs. But they take Cedric. Ugh. 

 

[AMPHAR]

It's just excuse making for a failed plan and poor coaching job.    Having to play a low experienced player is a reality in the NFL.

When Andre Smith struggled.   They had Dennis Roland eligible and Anthony Collins to help stream him along when times were tough for him.   Our QB didn't get touched and they were able to eek out yards with Cedric.

If you have to slide protect then do it.  If you have to chip more, then do it.   Play Winston/Fisher whoever more then do it.

Dalton and Green are out of this world so far considering this unit is producing top 11 yards per game with the RT and overall O-line problems. 

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, I didn't see the plan of Ogboogie starting at RT coming.  I always thought they viewed him as the LT of the future.
They still may, but I always thought Fisher was the better option at RT considering his time there in college although finishing at LT.

Whitworth has a part to play in this as well, but I'm not complaining about what we get from him either.

[Stripes]

I didn't like it much when he was drafted.  But he was.  Under the circumstances, I don't really blame them for playing him.  I agree they need to give him more help (so Zeitler can settle back into his own role instead of trying to do both), but I don't think benching him outright long-term would do him any good.  He needs to develop.  It's too early to call him a bust, and to take him off the field for too long isn't far from doing that.

[ArmyBengal]

Well, Whitworth is a free agent after this year.  If Ogboogie is the LT of the future, next year is yet another challenge.
RT will see someone new as well (Fisher?).  What about Zeitler ??  Does he get paid or is he allowed to walk ??

The o-line for next year could look VERY different.

[COB]

If Ooblesdorf can't get his shit together before the end of the season, the Bengals are going to be at the mercy of Whit's agent, or they're going tackle in the first round again.  

Off topic but I'm a voter and this Ron Tamburrino fellow at the bottom of my Bengalszone screen seems like a straight shooter.  His ad says He'll Defend Liberty and Promote Justice.  What else could we all ask in a candidate for Judge for the 11th District Court of Appeals? (Also, what is the 11th District Court of Appeals?)  Ron Tamburrino is a righteous warrior for truth and common decency.  He's a beacon of morality shining through the sewage of our godless culture.  Drug dealing scum, you have met your match.  Ron Tamburrino has wrested Lady Justice's sword from her hands, and he's swinging that motherfucker Shaolin style.  He'll cut your heads off and he won't even think twice about it.  The aisles in his 11th District Court of Appeals courtroom will run red with the blood of heretics and enemies of the state.  He's a judge who believes in law and order.  He's a judge who believes in the rule of law.  He's a judge who will use supernatural powers to unearth tomorrow's criminals today.  Pagans, felons, atheists, rapists, murderers, infidels, home invaders, clinton voters, burglars, arsonists, Super Badass Ron Tamburrino can see into your black hearts and he'll rip them, still beating, out of your chests and make you take a big bite.  RON TAMBURRINO FOR JUDGE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!

[Walrus]

15 minutes ago, COB said:

Off topic but I'm a voter and this Ron Tamburrino fellow at the bottom of my Bengalszone screen seems like a straight shooter.  ... *genius rant* ...  RON TAMBURRINO FOR JUDGE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!

All I get is an ad for Chico's women's apparel ... the Internet gods know I need a break from football - maybe it's time for some delightful retail therapy!

[COB]

Ron Tamburrino attends community school forum, is asked if he supports school lunch program for K-6.  See below.

 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

4 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Well, Whitworth is a free agent after this year.  If Ogboogie is the LT of the future, next year is yet another challenge.
RT will see someone new as well (Fisher?).  What about Zeitler ??  Does he get paid or is he allowed to walk ??

The o-line for next year could look VERY different.

It looks pretty dire and hopeless if they are just going to keep doing the same thing every year and never change or innovate.  Alexander's drawbacks have been covered-up by plentiful day one picks, 1st and 2nd round WR's, Rb's and Qb's out the wazoo, who always get re-signed, and a system that is dependent on the QB not giving d-lineman a chance at getting to the QB, by releasing the ball within 3 seconds (or whatever it is).  This artificially (all of it) inflates the 0-line's performance grades IMO, and again makes Alexander look better than what he is - a simplistic meat head who makes bad draft pick after bad draft pick and is never held accountable for any of it.

And then you have the local media who are afraid to be critical of him in any way, mostly due to lack of knowledge, and fear of losing favor and access for their corporate media entity.

 

 

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

15 hours ago, COB said:

Ron Tamburrino has wrested Lady Justice's sword from her hands, and he's swinging that motherfucker Shaolin style. 
RON TAMBURRINO FOR JUDGE, MOTHERFUCKERS!!

DAAAAAMN, I could get behind a campaign like that !!!