Need new Leadership!

[combatbengal]

I know it's early in the season, but I think it's time for Marvin and his staff to be replaced. We have the same issues year after year! Time management for one - it sucks! We had 22 seconds left in the 1st half with two time outs. Yet we elect to down the ball and go into the locker room; instead of trying to get in FG range and attempting to FG! This occurs just about every game! 2nd point, at the end of the game with 4 minutes left, down by two scores, we run a play and instead of jogging back to the line of scrimmage to run the next play, our players are taking their time. We still have discipline issues! We are making way to many penalties! Ball security is an issue! We depleted our WR corps, replace them with others and now we only have AJ Green to go to! Our offensive play calling sucks! We ran well in the first half, Denver made adjustments and stopped us in the second. We should have mixed it up in the 2nd half, spread the offense and throw short passes or screen passes. That might have opened up the running game again! Why don't we put Hill and Bernard in the back field at the same time? Why did we wait so long for our star TE to have surgery? We could have used him the past three games! Why do we always lose to Rookie QB'"s? Why does I seem like we're not prepared to play? Frustration has already set in!!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Mike Brown will never fire Marvin.  We're stuck with him, as long as he wants to continue coaching.

[kingwilly]

47 minutes ago, combatbengal said:

I know it's early in the season, but I think it's time for Marvin and his staff to be replaced. We have the same issues year after year! Time management for one - it sucks! We had 22 seconds left in the 1st half with two time outs. Yet we elect to down the ball and go into the locker room; instead of trying to get in FG range and attempting to FG! This occurs just about every game! 2nd point, at the end of the game with 4 minutes left, down by two scores, we run a play and instead of jogging back to the line of scrimmage to run the next play, our players are taking their time. We still have discipline issues! We are making way to many penalties! Ball security is an issue! We depleted our WR corps, replace them with others and now we only have AJ Green to go to! Our offensive play calling sucks! We ran well in the first half, Denver made adjustments and stopped us in the second. We should have mixed it up in the 2nd half, spread the offense and throw short passes or screen passes. That might have opened up the running game again! Why don't we put Hill and Bernard in the back field at the same time? Why did we wait so long for our star TE to have surgery? We could have used him the past three games! Why do we always lose to Rookie QB'"s? Why does I seem like we're not prepared to play? Frustration has already set in!!

Amen, brother. 

Lewis' shtick rings hollow after so much plodding. It's as if decent is good enough. There's no urgency, as you note. There's little ability to adapt to a game situation. We've seen better prepared teams at our local high school level who are better coached. Seriously. 

If they can't break through, I agree it's time to hit reset with the coaching staff, say buh-bye to Alexander, the Hayes brothers, Guenther and Zampese, and get new blood, new ideas, new energy. Think of it, Andre Smith could have a SB ring before AJ Green. Fark, I wish they'd kept Hue. 

[cincyhokie]

41 minutes ago, ShulaSteakhouse said:

Mike Brown will never fire Marvin.  We're stuck with him, as long as he wants to continue coaching.

Well, I have to say that I do respect the Brown family's dedication to their employees but it's to a fault.  They'll ride Marvin until the wheels fall off.  Expect 1 or 2 seasons of losing before he a) quits or b) things get so bad it affects the bottom line and they "offer him a better position within the organization".

They do it too with the players.  Ride them and their contracts to the end.  Seeing it play out a bit with Whit.  Saw it with Geathers.  Seeing it with Peko.  The list goes on and on.

Too many personal feelings involved in their business decisions.  Always have been like that.

[GapControl]

5 hours ago, kingwilly said:

Amen, brother. 

Lewis' shtick rings hollow after so much plodding. It's as if decent is good enough. There's no urgency, as you note. There's little ability to adapt to a game situation. We've seen better prepared teams at our local high school level who are better coached. Seriously. 

If they can't break through, I agree it's time to hit reset with the coaching staff, say buh-bye to Alexander, the Hayes brothers, Guenther and Zampese, and get new blood, new ideas, new energy. Think of it, Andre Smith could have a SB ring before AJ Green. Fark, I wish they'd kept Hue. 

The dline coach Hayes is gone already.

This team is missing Eifert on O.  I think they would run split backs more if our Oline could pass block better. 

Im not sure if Mike Zimmer or Hue J. would be a better option with this squad.  

It'd be better to go try and find another guy like Burfict to play LB or another AJ Green like WR.  Of course, if that were easy it would be done already.

[AMPHAR]

Legit questions.   With no answers except hope.    When it comes to beating the top AFC teams they don't bring the A game and I'm not sure if they ever will under Lewis.

Another classic could have won game but didn't. 

[HoosierCat]

Three games into the season and we've started the "fire Marvin" thread already, I see. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Heck, in his first year, after they lost the opener to Denver, people were calling for his head. I suppose it's progress that a dozen years later he now gets three games instead of one before fans start sharpening the axes.

While there's always room for improvement at all levels, I'm really not sure how a new head coach makes the refs correctly see knees on the turf or "completed" passes bouncing off it. How a new head coach makes AJ Green not drop a critical pass I don't know either. It's not Lewis' fault that our best LB is suspended for a hit that would just be "playing hard" if he wore black and urine, or that our star TE f**ked up his ankle in the meaningless pro bowl, or that our first round corner is on IR. It's not his fault that Marvin Jones wanted a shot at being The Man somewhere or that Atlanta offered Sanu ludicrous money to sign. And it was Mike Brown, not Marvin Lewis, who nixed the plan that would have kept Hue in Cincy.

Yes, Marvin wastes time outs. He's not a great in-game coach. IMO he's too indulgent of coaches like Alexander and their pet projects like Stacey Andrews and Bodine. In short he has his faults. Most coaches do. And if he were ushered out the door after this season I wouldn't complain. But here and now, what we need is for some key guys to get healthy/unsuspended and for some inexperienced guys to get that experience. And the only thing that will do that is time.

[kingwilly]

Great, Hoosier arrives in our bitch fest to be the voice of reason. Thanks. You've rooned a perfectly good vent session :). 

[combatbengal]

I'm not saying fire Marin now, I'm saying after the season is over. Your right, a lot of this is not his fault. But, he's the final say in the game planning which we haven't done well. It's his call on calling time outs and throwing the review flag, that's been awful for years. It's his job to instill discipline on the team - how many penalties did we have? It's his job to get the players ready to play! Year after year we see the same issues and same results. Teams that we should beat - come to play and we don't seem to be prepared to play them. We get beat by inexperienced rookie QB's. We seem to play to the level of the team that we're playing - never outright dominate a team - Like the Eagles did to the Steelers! We don't use our assets very well! Tie management is horrible and has been for years. Different players come and go yet we don't improve on things that need to get us over that hump! Last season we had an opportunity to get a bye week and knock Denver out of the playoffs. We didn't show up to play that game! They got in and won and we lost in the wild card game! Is a new coaching staff going to change this right away, no but maybe we can get some different ideas on how we can get deeper into the playoffs and win a super bowl!

[AMPHAR]

I think it's reasonable to find fault with Marvin considering Kubiak beats him every time.  

I'll wait for the All-22 but the most critical snap we got caught with Lewis-Harris one on one when Denver only had 2 other options in the route and we were standing with 3 defenders playing short passing lanes waiting to swat a pass instead of rushing.   oooops.

His teams don't get it done against the top competition in the big moments. 

Edit:  Marvin can start to rewrite the scrip at anytime.  On deck is a  team we should beat handily at home in prime time.   Somehow this feels like a game that will be a grind for no other reason than it's in prime time.     

[redsbengalsbucks]

Posted July 14 · Report post

W     @ Jets
L      @ Steelers
L       Broncos
W     Dolphins
L      @ Cowboys
L      @ Patriots
W     Browns
W     Redskins (London)
W     @ Giants
W     Bills
W     @ Ravens
W     Eagles
W    @ Browns
W     Steelers
L      @ Texans
W     Ravens

 

I get  11-5 with a lot of hand wringing when they start out 2-4.

 

This is a repost of my predictions for the year, so far I am 100% correct.

[AMPHAR]

Just heard on the radio Carson Wentz and Eagles handed the worse loss for the Steelers since Boomer and the Bengals in 1989.    They gave up 400+ yards and 34 points to a 3rd game starting QB from North Dakota State.      A week ago the Bengals had to fight tooth and nail to get 16 points.

Sometimes it just seems like we put these top teams on a pedestal.     How the hell does that happen?  34 points to the Eagles?  

[HoosierCat]

The Steelers loss seems like a classic letdown game after starting the season with a Monday night slot then a big divisional matchup. But they also lost a bunch of guys during the game including Timmons and Rogers. So the situation bears watching.

@willy: sorry, proceed with your venting! 

[Stripes]

I don't think a desire to move on from Marvin Lewis is only about this 1-2 start.  He's been here for 13 years and the Bengals have nothing to show for it but a bunch of embarrassing wild card round performances.  It's a moot point because he won't be fired, and they missed their promote-from-within opportunity not once but twice.  I'd feel the same way if the Bengals were 3-0 right now.

 

I lost interest in making excuses years ago.

[HoosierCat]

1 hour ago, combatbengal said:

I'm not saying fire Marin now, I'm saying after the season is over. Your right, a lot of this is not his fault. But, he's the final say in the game planning which we haven't done well. It's his call on calling time outs and throwing the review flag, that's been awful for years. It's his job to instill discipline on the team - how many penalties did we have? It's his job to get the players ready to play! Year after year we see the same issues and same results. Teams that we should beat - come to play and we don't seem to be prepared to play them. We get beat by inexperienced rookie QB's. We seem to play to the level of the team that we're playing - never outright dominate a team - Like the Eagles did to the Steelers! We don't use our assets very well! Tie management is horrible and has been for years. Different players come and go yet we don't improve on things that need to get us over that hump! Last season we had an opportunity to get a bye week and knock Denver out of the playoffs. We didn't show up to play that game! They got in and won and we lost in the wild card game! Is a new coaching staff going to change this right away, no but maybe we can get some different ideas on how we can get deeper into the playoffs and win a super bowl!

Believe me I get the frustration. And while I agree they could use a little more discipline, there's not much you can do when the refs appear committed to bogus calls like that roughing penalty (on Iloka I think) that kept an early Denver drive alive. As for using our assets, that to me is the heart of the problem: the Bengals don't have very good assets right now. On defense it's still all about the front four. When they don't get pressure it exposes a very pedestrian LB corps and secondary. No Hall, no Nelson, no Burfict, no WJ3 in the back seven, and two of the young guys we were counting on to bolster the front four, Hardison and Billings, also out. On the other side of the ball, Jones and Sanu are gone, Eifert and Kroft have been hurt, the run game slept through the first two game, our rookie RT has had a rough start and both LaFell and Boyd have been meh. That leaves them with zero room for error so when something happens like Green dropping a pass it's crushing.

Could another coach and staff get more out of these guys? Maybe. I think the odds are against it though. Guys like Bill Belichick, who can seemingly take any 22 scrubs and win a super bowl, are really, really rare. My guess is any new regime will get saddled with a lot of the same problems of the current one, like ownership that likes redemption projects, "iron rice bowl" coaches who seemingly get to stay on forever regardless of performance, and of course the FO's legendary frugality (including what it's willing t pay the head coach!). Those are factors that have long kept top-tier coaches away from Cincy. Bottom line, I think Marvin Lewis is about the best we're going to get. That doesn't mean I would object to a change, I just have little faith that it would matter.

[COB]

2 hours ago, kingwilly said:

Great, Hoosier arrives in our bitch fest to be the voice of reason. Thanks. You've rooned a perfectly good vent session :). 

He always does this.  

Typically it goes as follows:

Me: "Hysterical teeth gnashing."

Hoosier: "Reality"

Me:  "But, but, but..."

Hoosier: "I'm grown up, you should grow up too."

 

I've always been a Marvin supporter.  But reality is what it is.  If they do move on from Marvin, I hope he's involved somehow with personnel.  He can pick players.  

 

 

[volcom69]

Don't get me started on the refs this year, they are truly making watching football unwatchable!!! I don't understand what's a catch, or a fumble anymore! Hell what's a hold anymore? 

I want to enjoy the game, but knowing that In someway the refs are going ruin it for me with a call that shouldn't be is just not fun. Thanks NFL!

[AMPHAR]

Instant replay is the devil.   I think it's better to live with blown calls vs. a time consuming ineffective system.

Go back to the old days.  If you want a catch or avoid a fumble you better be able to hand the ball to the ref after the whistle.   If you can't then you are at the mercy of the human eye.

 

[kingwilly]

When the Refs failed to call a single hold on the Steelers (holding every play) I was passed. Then, when they blew the call on Boyd's non-fumble I was irritated. On the Pacman non fumble I was barely surprised. 

Last night, theRefs picked up a very obvious and clear flag for a hold on Witten and now I just think the NFL has their favorites and that's that. 

[GapControl]

4 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Believe me I get the frustration. And while I agree they could use a little more discipline, there's not much you can do when the refs appear committed to bogus calls like that roughing penalty (on Iloka I think) that kept an early Denver drive alive. As for using our assets, that to me is the heart of the problem: the Bengals don't have very good assets right now. On defense it's still all about the front four. When they don't get pressure it exposes a very pedestrian LB corps and secondary. No Hall, no Nelson, no Burfict, no WJ3 in the back seven, and two of the young guys we were counting on to bolster the front four, Hardison and Billings, also out. On the other side of the ball, Jones and Sanu are gone, Eifert and Kroft have been hurt, the run game slept through the first two game, our rookie RT has had a rough start and both LaFell and Boyd have been meh. That leaves them with zero room for error so when something happens like Green dropping a pass it's crushing.

Could another coach and staff get more out of these guys? Maybe. I think the odds are against it though. Guys like Bill Belichick, who can seemingly take any 22 scrubs and win a super bowl, are really, really rare. My guess is any new regime will get saddled with a lot of the same problems of the current one, like ownership that likes redemption projects, "iron rice bowl" coaches who seemingly get to stay on forever regardless of performance, and of course the FO's legendary frugality (including what it's willing t pay the head coach!). Those are factors that have long kept top-tier coaches away from Cincy. Bottom line, I think Marvin Lewis is about the best we're going to get. That doesn't mean I would object to a change, I just have little faith that it would matter.

No matter what we'd like to think, Vinny Rey does not = Vontaze Burfict.

Chris Lewis Harris does not = good enough to beat Demarius Thomas.

So far, Ced Og does not = Flesh Zeppelin

Uzomah does not = Eifert

 

[volcom69]

7 hours ago, kingwilly said:

When the Refs failed to call a single hold on the Steelers (holding every play) I was passed. Then, when they blew the call on Boyd's non-fumble I was irritated. On the Pacman non fumble I was barely surprised. 

Last night, theRefs picked up a very obvious and clear flag for a hold on Witten and now I just think the NFL has their favorites and that's that. 

They do and it's flat out not fair! For years nobody gave a shit about the bengals, now after the playoff game last year, everyone seems to be out to put the bengals down. Anyway possible to screw the bengals out of a call that should go there way they seem to do it. Hell even the ref at Broncos game when he actually called something for the bengals had to let it be known then smiled about it. The NFL just amazes me anymore.

Let me know who is going to retire next year so I can pick them to win. So far when Rey Lewis said it was his last year, the Ravens won, when Manning said it was his last year the Broncos won. It all just makes me laugh anymore 

[Stripes]

I don't think the NFL or its referees have any special interest in screwing the Bengals.  I think they may be more attentive to the Bengals defense than to most other teams given their reputation for rough, physical play.  The same thing used to happen to the Ravens.

The calls that have gone against them have been bad luck.  When we try to blame anything else we look silly.

[kingwilly]

12 hours ago, StripesInSuffolk said:

I don't think the NFL or its referees have any special interest in screwing the Bengals.  I think they may be more attentive to the Bengals defense than to most other teams given their reputation for rough, physical play.  The same thing used to happen to the Ravens.

The calls that have gone against them have been bad luck.  When we try to blame anything else we look silly.

Good grief, stop making sense. I hate bad luck, it's my middle name. Just would like a fairly called game, give or take. Often it sure doesn't "feel" like just bad luck.

[cincyhokie]

I don't think they should fire Marvin this season.  Marvin is a good coach who will lead the Bengals to 10-6.

I do think there should be a succession plan.  Otherwise plan on at least 2 seasons of stink at sub .500 before the team makes a move or forces Marvin's hand.

This team reminds me of the 2013 Reds.  On the way down with no foresight to fix the glaring holes until it's too late.

10-6 here we come!  

But don't expect any different results than the last 5 years...