Bengals @ Patriots Game Thread

[cincyhokie]

Well, that was a disaster. On offense the drops and fumbles issues they had early last season returned with a vengeance. And the pre-snap penalties were back, too. Moobs probably cost us 3 with that false start. Gresham is worthless when any kind of pressure is on.

Gio made hay out of the relatively few carries he got. Andy played fairly well but got zero help from the rest of the team. But outside of that I can't find much good to say about the offense.

Defense was horrific. LBs looked like they were playing in tar. Dline got no push and no pressure. They still can't cover the tight end. And stop the run? Please. I don't know where you start to fix this.

Smack the shit out of Carolina. Get people healthy. Starting with Burfict and Eifert.

[Scottishbengal]

That was a drunken f%ck of a game - a couple of good moments, generally disappointing, and tomorrow we'll wake up and regret it all !!!

That game was worth the one Natural Light beer I just pissed out. Glad I didn't give it more of an effort.

It's almost 5:00am, I've been awake for 22 hours, I've used a days annual leave to sleep off the bottle of malt that numbed the pain throughout the game, the steak will be shit out early afternoon.

I feel i've wasted so much - but I love my team .... don't mind losing if we go down fighting, - but tonight was an abortion !!

"I'm as sad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!!!" .... paraphrasing and bastardising some american actor in some american film

[Scottishbengal]

How much shitter would we have been if it wasn't for NE's penalties helping us out ??????

[volcom69]

Well, that was a disaster. On offense the drops and fumbles issues they had early last season returned with a vengeance. And the pre-snap penalties were back, too. Moobs probably cost us 3 with that false start. Gresham is worthless when any kind of pressure is on.

Gio made hay out of the relatively few carries he got. Andy played fairly well but got zero help from the rest of the team. But outside of that I can't find much good to say about the offense.

Defense was horrific. LBs looked like they were playing in tar. Dline got no push and no pressure. They still can't cover the tight end. And stop the run? Please. I don't know where you start to fix this.

Where do you find guys on the d-line that can rush the passer? Without the blitz they have nothing, and it looked like Paul didn't blitz much. Hopefully they have not been exposed and the Pats showed other teams how to beat this defense. Truth is there are a bunch of holes on this defense and a bunch of players playing out of position.

[Wraith]

Or maybe they had a bad game on the road in a place that no AFC team has won since 2008 against a team that was completely pissed. I am not going to make too much of this. Now if they lay an egg next week I will begin to get concerned. I wouldn't want to be Carolina because I think they will get treated like the Pats treated us.

Not looking forward to reading the media however

[membengal]

Marvin special. He's the anti- Belichick. Never has them ready when the lights are brightest.

Never.

[HoosierCat]

I dunno. I know Lewis is a popular target today, but I'm not sure how he can coach Gresham to not drop easy TDs or coach AJ not to fumble. At least on offense, last night looked like a massive failure of execution by Gresham and the WRs. The line, backs and QB were mostly OK.

The defense is a mystery. The decision to play so much zone was inexplicable. All the creativity we saw in the first three games vanished. They looked slow and confused all night. Coaching is part of that problem but it seems to me Gunther gets most of the blame for a bad game plan and failure to adjust. But even then, watching the game the players didn't show well. Maualuga looked like his old, slow self. Lamur was a mess. Peko looked done. Hunt...did he even play? Ditto our first rounder Dennard. Hall was two steps behind in the secondary and Nelson didn't look much faster. At the end of the day someone had to step up and make some plays, but no one did.

[cincyhokie]

I think it's a mystery because it's the unseen. Mentality isn't sound when it comes to big games. So of course it doesn't jive with logic because that's not the team we've watched the past few weeks.

I'm not even going to blame Marvin. This team's been shiting the bed over the decades, with a variety of coaches, in big games.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Well that was a very disappointing effort by the D, O had chances, but did not take them.

To be honest the only player that really had a good game was Dalton, he overthrew two WR's. Other than those throws he played well.

The Patriots O-line was holding on every play, I think the refs got tired of trying to correct them.

To many blitzes that did not reach home and some very bad coverage of the middle of the field.

Had this as a loss going into the season and was right, now on to Carolina!

[ArmyBengal]

I remember hearing that they wanted to be "smart bullies".

I would guess that if you can't be both smart and a bully that you would at least want to be at one of the two.

Last night they were neither.

Gresham is of course my first target. No excuses from him yet again. Looked like the Texans game where it was on him and blew it.

Dalton. I love that he came back to throw 2 TD's after getting down, but there were some bad misses. That Gio overthrow about broke my heart.

Poor tackling. Can't blame that on the coaches, the players just looked like their heart wasn't in it.

The D-line. I can't count how many times I watched a lineman go into rush and seemingly stop the push once engaged. It was strange to watch.

On the sack given up. They happen, but that was laziness pure and simple.

Hey defense, there's this thing called two TE sets. Study those please, because they blasted your ass all night long with them.

Green's fumble, no pass rush, secondary taking a snooze.

For as much credit as Marvin gave for the total team win against the Titans, he needs to address the total team failure last night.

Offense, defense, special teams. While there were glints of what we saw up to this game, I thought they pretty much blew it.

Another prime time game, another opportunity to prove people wrong, and it was wasted.

I give full credit to the Patriots for coming out there like a team with something to prove. They did just that and the Bengals paid for it.

Honestly though, I had this penciled in as a loss at the beginning of the year, so i'm really no worse off.

Now go kick the shit out of the Panthers next week.

[cincyhokie]

Tate and Gresham are two of the biggest mysteries on this team. Tate because he fucking sucks and still plays...and Gresham because he fucking sucks and shouldn't.

Head scratchers.

[volcom69]

I just don't know how you fix the fact that there best players just don't show up on prime time games. For some reason in these games it's like the coaches get away from what makes them good. I don't know if they over think things because of prime time or what, but if they can't figure this out then come playoffs if they make it, it dosnt look good.

[HoosierCat]

For some reason in these games it's like the coaches get away from what makes them good.

When it comes to the defense last night, I think you hit the nail on the head. Inexplicably, Gunther decided to toss out everything that had worked in the first three games and replace it with soft zone coverage and a mostly ineffective four-man rush. It has the same feel as Gruden's decision in the first playoff game to not throw to Green for the first half, or last year's call to quit running the ball while it was working so as to not give SD the chance to stop the run. Gunther completely out-thought himself last night and I hope he learns from it.

[membengal]

Hoosier...Marvin is the constant. Gresham is on the team because of Marvin. Tate is returning kicks because of Marvin. Marvin built this roster, Marvin is responsible for having them ready to meet the moment collectively, Marvin manages the game plans, Marvin sets the tone, all of that is Marvin.

This is Marvin's show.

And, again, as ever, in a big spot, his team is spectacularly unprepared for the moment in all aspects.

How should the focus be anywhere but Marvin?

[Walrus]

By definition, good teams play well in big games. In the game I watched last night, one team was good and one team was not. There's always next week, but this was a blown opportunity for the Bengals that they'll never have back - not just for the win, but to get the prime-time monkey off their back. This is an issue they only have so many chances to address and every time they fail, it becomes that much bigger. The team will focus on Carolina this week, but as a fan I just marked Nov 6 vs the Browns on my calendar.

[Wraith]

So, Marvin is the cause of Gresham, Green, and Sanu dropping 4 balls...including a touchdown? Marvin is the cause of the three fumbles that led directly to 16 points? Marvin is the cause of the defense forgetting how to play run defense?

Those things would ring true if this team consistantly made those mistakes but, they don't (well Gresham does but honestly for those who want to see him cut, what is their option right now....what superstar TE is sitting out there waiting for the Bengals to pick him up...their plan was to play Eifert more and Gresham less but that lasted about 5 plays into the regular season, so they are making due). The defense plays the run pretty good normally. We haven't lost a fumble all season. The things that happened in this game are abberrations given how the team has played the rest of the season.

EVERY team has bad games, and most of them are on the ROAD. One bad game does not mean the season, and that is what we are talking about here, ONE bad game out of FOUR. If that trend continues we will be 12-4 and division winners. It would have been nice to have a better showing in this game, it would have been nice to put aside the doubters, it would have been nice to come out with a win. We didn't, on to Carolina and if this becomes a trend THEN we can start this conversation.

In the immortal words of Aaron Rodgers...RELAX! This is a good team, perhaps the most well rounded Bengals team ever, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Now I know there are those of you that are exasperated that these gaffs come in big games, yep, we struggle to beat good teams on the road just like every other team in NFL history. Reminder this Patriots team just got smoked at Kansas City by about the same amount we did at New England...Seattle got handled at San Diego...Denver got bashed in Seattle...Arizona got crushed in Denver...as a matter of fact the only team that has put together a big win over a contending team this season on the road was (that I am aware of)...US vs. Baltimore.

[cincyhokie]

So, Marvin is the cause of Gresham, Green, and Sanu dropping 4 balls...including a touchdown? Marvin is the cause of the three fumbles that led directly to 16 points? Marvin is the cause of the defense forgetting how to play run defense?

Those things would ring true if this team consistantly made those mistakes but, they don't (well Gresham does but honestly for those who want to see him cut, what is their option right now....what superstar TE is sitting out there waiting for the Bengals to pick him up...their plan was to play Eifert more and Gresham less but that lasted about 5 plays into the regular season, so they are making due). The defense plays the run pretty good normally. We haven't lost a fumble all season. The things that happened in this game are abberrations given how the team has played the rest of the season.

EVERY team has bad games, and most of them are on the ROAD. One bad game does not mean the season, and that is what we are talking about here, ONE bad game out of FOUR. If that trend continues we will be 12-4 and division winners. It would have been nice to have a better showing in this game, it would have been nice to put aside the doubters, it would have been nice to come out with a win. We didn't, on to Carolina and if this becomes a trend THEN we can start this conversation.

In the immortal words of Aaron Rodgers...RELAX! This is a good team, perhaps the most well rounded Bengals team ever, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Now I know there are those of you that are exasperated that these gaffs come in big games, yep, we struggle to beat good teams on the road just like every other team in NFL history. Reminder this Patriots team just got smoked at Kansas City by about the same amount we did at New England...Seattle got handled at San Diego...Denver got bashed in Seattle...Arizona got crushed in Denver...as a matter of fact the only team that has put together a big win over a contending team this season on the road was (that I am aware of)...US vs. Baltimore.

All true. What does that mean for the playoffs if they're on the road?

These teams the last few years remind me of the Atlanta teams that went 14-2, 13-3, only to get crushed in the playoffs.

Can it change? Sure. I think it can too. But the evidence that this current team has produced says otherwise until they prove it. It's that simple.

Right now, they're a good team that's fun to watch. That's it.

[cincyhokie]

By definition, good teams play well in big games. In the game I watched last night, one team was good and one team was not. There's always next week, but this was a blown opportunity for the Bengals that they'll never have back - not just for the win, but to get the prime-time monkey off their back. This is an issue they only have so many chances to address and every time they fail, it becomes that much bigger. The team will focus on Carolina this week, but as a fan I just marked Nov 6 vs the Browns on my calendar.

They'll wax the Browns at home in primetime. If fact, they play pretty good in primetime at home. It's on the road that they are terrible.

Broncos monday night in December at PBS. They'll play well. The playoffs...not so sure.

[princeton]

going into the season, I figured that we wouldn't know a thing until after we traveled to New England

so, now we know. This team's not going anywhere, as is

Some players are meant for the bright lights, and some just aren't. The Yankees go through a ton of players because they sign a guy that had a big season for the Twins, only to find that he can't cut it in the City. Bengals stubbornly refuse to believe that, and think that the performance that they see at 1 pm vs. the Browns will be recapitulated in the playoffs. Doesn't always happen. Toss those guys and find someone who can play just as well when the lights come on.

[membengal]

Clearly none of it is Marvin's fault.

He is the constant through 11 years of this kind of failure, but, sure, it is everyone else and not him.

Got it.

[HoosierCat]

So, Marvin is the cause of Gresham, Green, and Sanu dropping 4 balls...including a touchdown? Marvin is the cause of the three fumbles that led directly to 16 points? Marvin is the cause of the defense forgetting how to play run defense?

Those things would ring true if this team consistantly made those mistakes but, they don't (well Gresham does but honestly for those who want to see him cut, what is their option right now....what superstar TE is sitting out there waiting for the Bengals to pick him up...their plan was to play Eifert more and Gresham less but that lasted about 5 plays into the regular season, so they are making due). The defense plays the run pretty good normally. We haven't lost a fumble all season. The things that happened in this game are abberrations given how the team has played the rest of the season.

EVERY team has bad games, and most of them are on the ROAD. One bad game does not mean the season, and that is what we are talking about here, ONE bad game out of FOUR. If that trend continues we will be 12-4 and division winners. It would have been nice to have a better showing in this game, it would have been nice to put aside the doubters, it would have been nice to come out with a win. We didn't, on to Carolina and if this becomes a trend THEN we can start this conversation.

In the immortal words of Aaron Rodgers...RELAX! This is a good team, perhaps the most well rounded Bengals team ever, sit back and enjoy the ride.

Now I know there are those of you that are exasperated that these gaffs come in big games, yep, we struggle to beat good teams on the road just like every other team in NFL history. Reminder this Patriots team just got smoked at Kansas City by about the same amount we did at New England...Seattle got handled at San Diego...Denver got bashed in Seattle...Arizona got crushed in Denver...as a matter of fact the only team that has put together a big win over a contending team this season on the road was (that I am aware of)...US vs. Baltimore.

Well said. It's also worth adding that performances like this aren't a new phenomena. The Bengals have stunk on the road in prime time no matter who's been head coach. Hell, they were 0-3 on the road in prime time under Paul Brown. Overall they are 7-31 in that situation.

[cincyhokie]

Clearly none of it is Marvin's fault.

He is the constant through 11 years of this kind of failure, but, sure, it is everyone else and not him.

Got it.

I agree with you. I posted earlier about not blaming Marvin. Marvin does have a huge hand in this. My point was that this inability to follow through in big games runs deeeeep. Call it snakebit, or whatever, this organization has shrunk in the bright lights since it's inception.

Having said that. Marvin is a good coach. But he's not a coach that's going to get a team to a SB. He's a just an above average coach. We can blame Marvin, and he deserves it, but I don't think that he's got it in him to give. There's a gear needed to reach to become a great team by making great gameplans and being a great leader when the lights are the brightest. Marvin just doesn't have it. I can't get too mad at someone for not being able to exceed their limited skill set.

[HoosierCat]

Road prime-time records:

Paul Brown 0-3 (.000)

Bill Johnson 0-3 (.000)

Homer Rice 1-0 (1.000)

Forest Gregg 0-3 (.000)

Sam Wyche 3-7 (.300)

Dave Shula 2-2 (.500)

Bruce Coslet 0-1 (.000)

Dick LeBeau 0-1 (.000)

Marvin Lewis 1-11 (.083)

The answer is clear: Bring back Dave Shula!

[membengal]

Forget get to a Super Bowl - I would just like Marvin to engage in some serious self-reflection about his style and approach to big games and frickin' make some changes. Clearly, CLEARLY, whatever he does IS NOT WORKING.

Hokie, you and I have been on this board almost the entire tenure of Marvin - Hoosier, the entire tenure.

Real talk - Marvin sets the tone - always has. These failures are his. Players change, coaches change, hell, the front office even evolves, and the issues remain the same.

[TJJackson]

Tate has got to go