Andy Dalton Sucks!

[kingwilly]

I'd actually be very surprised if they drafted a QB before the 5th.

If Gruden doesn't leave, I bet they don't draft one at all.

If Dalton fails again next season and they don't extend him, they will look for a QB early in 2015.

Then again, I could be wrong and Dalton could shock the world in winning the Super Bowl next year.

There's always next year, right ??

If they don't draft a QB early, it means they are truly committed to Dalton. I don't see any FA QB who can have a greater chance of success than Dalton.

If they do go early on a QB, my guess it would be after a departure of Gruden, in whatever form that takes.

I would like to see them get one early. The crazy plan would involve accepting that Dalton is not the answer, thus meaning they need a top guy, like Bortles or Bridgewater. To get one, they'd have to mortgage the draft. I think they could absorb such a move, give the depth of talent and notion that they are essentially one player (QB) away. I do not see it an acceptable risk to take a guy in r3-5 and have an expectation that they would push Dalton for the starting job.

The conservative plan would be to examine a retread like Kolb, Flynn, or Garrard..heck, Josh McKown played very well for the bears in a similar offense. Might be part of who comes in as a new OC, to have a vet who knows that system.

Another angle is to leverage draft picks to move for a guy like Mallet or Cousins. I think either would be an upgrade to Dalton. Both have better arms, and from their body of work, show better upside with a higher ceiling.

Some might think fans are spoiled about going to the playoffs 3 years running. aftr the second loss, it really became clear Dalton a a major limiting factor and his development needed to make big progress. He seemed to take some big steps this year (flashed for October against decent opponents) but still reverted and regressed under pressure. 3 losses and its decision time, by my way of thinking.

[kingwilly]

He could play that up all he likes, but the other side of that coin will be considered as well.

What could Dalton have accomplished without some of the sh*tty playcalling ??

Don't get me wrong, Gruden might make a better HC, but I want no part of him continuing here.

I agree about him moving on. I think its iffy if he gets a HC job. I don't think he'll be fired outright, considering how long they rolled with Brat and given the success Gruden has had so far. SoP won't fire him.

Of course I realize they will keep supporting Dalton and the trades/drafting/FA signings are purely wishful thinking but it is salve on the sting of that woeful performance yesterday. Paul Brown stadium has a huge crater in it, with charred field turf and black Bengals uni's. Stinks.

[WonderfulMonds]

I'd actually be very surprised if they drafted a QB before the 5th.

If Gruden doesn't leave, I bet they don't draft one at all.

If Dalton fails again next season and they don't extend him, they will look for a QB early in 2015.

Then again, I could be wrong and Dalton could shock the world in winning the Super Bowl next year.

There's always next year, right ??

If they don't draft a QB early, it means they are truly committed to Dalton. I don't see any FA QB who can have a greater chance of success than Dalton.

If they do go early on a QB, my guess it would be after a departure of Gruden, in whatever form that takes.

I would like to see them get one early. The crazy plan would involve accepting that Dalton is not the answer, thus meaning they need a top guy, like Bortles or Bridgewater. To get one, they'd have to mortgage the draft. I think they could absorb such a move, give the depth of talent and notion that they are essentially one player (QB) away. I do not see it an acceptable risk to take a guy in r3-5 and have an expectation that they would push Dalton for the starting job.

The conservative plan would be to examine a retread like Kolb, Flynn, or Garrard..heck, Josh McKown played very well for the bears in a similar offense. Might be part of who comes in as a new OC, to have a vet who knows that system.

Another angle is to leverage draft picks to move for a guy like Mallet or Cousins. I think either would be an upgrade to Dalton. Both have better arms, and from their body of work, show better upside with a higher ceiling.

Some might think fans are spoiled about going to the playoffs 3 years running. aftr the second loss, it really became clear Dalton a a major limiting factor and his development needed to make big progress. He seemed to take some big steps this year (flashed for October against decent opponents) but still reverted and regressed under pressure. 3 losses and its decision time, by my way of thinking.

What about trading Dalton to one of the teams that really needs a QB, then packaging that pick together with whatever to get Cousins/Mallett? Hell, try to go get them both and let them battle it out, then you still have a pretty decent insurance policy if the starter doesn't work out.

[WonderfulMonds]

I was thinking about that other idea too; would it be possible for the Bengals to go get Bridgewater first overall if they wanted to? Could they trade enough picks to move up that high? Would it even be worth it at that point given what you'd have to trade? I wonder if you could get the pick if you traded Houston Dalton, the first round pick and the second round pick.

[walzav29]

Whoa , Whoa, Whoa.

Maybe we're jumping the gun here. Basically, we are bashing Dalton because we assumed that since he went to the playoffs as a rookie, naturally he'll be in the Super Bowl by now. Drew Brees didn't make playoffs until year 4. Didn't get a win until year 6. Palmer sat on a BENCH his 1st season. Went 8-8 and WE WERE ECSTATIC then FINALLY went 11-5 his 3rd year. Completed 1 pass, and had a grand total of 2 playoff appearances in 8 seasons with Cincy. Why isn't all of this pressure on Cam Newton? He was the #1 overall pick and his team had it's 1st winning season in his 3rd year. Dalton has sucked all 3 playoff games. No doubt. But what we are saying is. It's better to IMAGINE playoff greatness and miss the playoffs. Than actually getting there and sucking. I don't mind Gruden leaving, but I'll bet he takes Andy when we let him go. And he'll be successful. If throwing td passes was so easy. Why did only 2 guys throw more? Why is he the 1st guy in Bengal history to make 3 trips to playoffs? Why does he have records for yards and td's for the franchise? Turnovers? Our beloved Boomer threw 22 ints in 1990. Then our magical last win in the playoffs 1991? 13tds 16 ints. Those were our QB glory days!!! You guys forgot Klingler? Smith? Kitna? Hollas? Schroeder? Mitchell? I think we're frustrated, and need to take a breather.

[cincyhokie]

Again, we're so close to the situation that we are not seeing the forest through the trees. We do need to step back, take a deep breath and see things for what they are.

Great article. Notice the quotes on the coaching staff from other sources. Ouch.

/>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000309907/article/andy-dalton-leaves-cincinnati-bengals-spinning-playoff-wheels

[cincyhokie]

I'm not sure what else needs to be seen with Dalton. Ignoring the HUGE warning flags is nothing more than turning away from the disappointing reality. It's us as fans trying to make things better than they are to protect ourselves from the stark reality.

Dalton isn't getting it done here. The longer we hold out hope, the faster the window closes on one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

[Wraith]

Exactly, let's go out and draft another QB because our track record drafting QBs is so incredible....

[cincyhokie]

Exactly, let's go out and draft another QB because our track record drafting QBs is so incredible....

So, let's not make changes because old changes didn't work?

I'm actually the highest I've been on Bengals personnel moves than I ever have been.

Mike Brown wanted Kaepernick. He listened to his coaches. They drafted Dalton. At the time, it was a good move. I liked the pick.

Things changed. Adapt and move on.

[ArmyBengal]

I watched the video along with it and Faulk says he'd be patient with Dalton, but that wasn't exactly the thought of Sanders and Irvin.

I said it before and will say it many times between now and this time next season. 2014 is it for Dalton. Do or die.

[cincyhokie]

I'm completely ok with drafting a QB early IF they are high on him. If not, don't waste the pick. Dalton is the starter next year.

What I am not ok with is not having a sold damn plan for what happens if he doesn't come through.

Me? I've seen enough. He's not the answer. However, for 2014 I don't think there is a better option out there.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm also not sold that it would be so easy to simply insert Cousins, McKown, or name your QB of choice and simply think that is the answer to everything.

I'm not sold on that theory in the least.

[Sea Ray]

What do folks list as Dalton's assets? What are above avg NFL starting caliber? When he was drafted it was supposed to be his accuracy but I don't think that his accuracy is anything to write home about.

As for the comparisons to Jon Kitna: No, I don't think they are accurate. Do you remember the Kitna talk? It was that he could take you from the 20 to 20, then he'd fizzle. Dalton did very well in the red zone this year and he did very well leading us on 90 yd drives. I don't know if this is saying much but Dalton is a notch above Kitna for those reasons

[Sea Ray]

I'm also not sold that it would be so easy to simply insert Cousins, McKown, or name your QB of choice and simply think that is the answer to everything.

I'm not sold on that theory in the least.

How 'bout Mallett?

[cincyhokie]

I'm also not sold that it would be so easy to simply insert Cousins, McKown, or name your QB of choice and simply think that is the answer to everything.

I'm not sold on that theory in the least.

I'm going to use the opportunity to use your point to make an example I was trying to make in another thread. I'm not disagreeing with you and in fact, without some major tweaks none of the QBs you listed would do any better.

However, if the Bengals don't make some degree of change because of the FEAR of what might, or what might not, happen. That is a loser mentality.

At some point, you have to say "let it fly". You have to mentally let go to some degree and take some risk. What we saw on the field yesterday was the opposite of that. They played tight and then panicked.

At the same time, the Bengals front office has been smart and agressive in the recent past. I have condfidence they will make a move that makes sense and optimizes the team's performance. But...but...we can't avoid moves for the fear of what we might have in Dalton.

[cincyhokie]

What do folks list as Dalton's assets? What are above avg NFL starting caliber? When he was drafted it was supposed to be his accuracy but I don't think that his accuracy is anything to write home about.

As for the comparisons to Jon Kitna: No, I don't think they are accurate. Do you remember the Kitna talk? It was that he could take you from the 20 to 20, then he'd fizzle. Dalton did very well in the red zone this year and he did very well leading us on 90 yd drives. I don't know if this is saying much but Dalton is a notch above Kitna for those reasons

Kitna lit it up in Detroit for those couple of years. His numbers were outstanding.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm also not sold that it would be so easy to simply insert Cousins, McKown, or name your QB of choice and simply think that is the answer to everything.

I'm not sold on that theory in the least.

How 'bout Mallett?

How about him ??

How many snaps has he taken in a regular season game ??

How many teams are beating down his agents down trying to get him in a trade ??

How can anyone peg him or any other QB to be the "final piece" ??

I'm not saying he may not be, but I can't say you let Dalton walk to find out.

Hokie, i'm not suggesting it's a fear of what may or may not happen, I think it's just logical.

On one hand you have a guy (Dalton) that even with his issues, has still done many very good things here since day one.

On the other you have guys that have never done anything. I just don't think an organization will make that big of a move.

Right or wrong, I just don't see them doing that.

[kingwilly]

What do folks list as Dalton's assets? What are above avg NFL starting caliber? When he was drafted it was supposed to be his accuracy but I don't think that his accuracy is anything to write home about.

As for the comparisons to Jon Kitna: No, I don't think they are accurate. Do you remember the Kitna talk? It was that he could take you from the 20 to 20, then he'd fizzle. Dalton did very well in the red zone this year and he did very well leading us on 90 yd drives. I don't know if this is saying much but Dalton is a notch above Kitna for those reasons

Kitna did not have these weapons. Did not. Especially this year.

I agree, it is hard to directly compare the progress of guys like Brees and Newton, placing different expectations on teams in vastly different levels of talent, strengths and ability.

For me, it comes down to squandering and compromising the balance of talent on this roster, simply to stick with the QB the coaches said would work. That would be prideful ignorance on their part, and would not be the first time.

I look at it like this: if another position turned in the relative performance that Dalton did, say a CB. And by that I mean giving up two or three big plays, there would be rightful calls for the guy to get the bench and be replaced, not be given a year 4 to "see" if he can progress. Why are some folks treating this situation so differently?

[ArmyBengal]

You simply can't compare the QB spot with another position either.

How many times does another position have such direct impact on each play ??

Center maybe ??

[cincyhokie]

I'm also not sold that it would be so easy to simply insert Cousins, McKown, or name your QB of choice and simply think that is the answer to everything.

I'm not sold on that theory in the least.

How 'bout Mallett?

How about him ??

How many snaps has he taken in a regular season game ??

How many teams are beating down his agents down trying to get him in a trade ??

How can anyone peg him or any other QB to be the "final piece" ??

I'm not saying he may not be, but I can't say you let Dalton walk to find out.

Hokie, i'm not suggesting it's a fear of what may or may not happen, I think it's just logical.

On one hand you have a guy (Dalton) that even with his issues, has still done many very good things here since day one.

On the other you have guys that have never done anything. I just don't think an organization will make that big of a move.

Right or wrong, I just don't see them doing that.

You have to demand better. When you don't you end up with what we got. Not that I blame them for this year. At all.

How many other cities with a Dalton are hanging on to hope...again...for another year? After he got his sophomore year out of the way, after he got one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. The bullets have been fired, the excuses are over. Bring in someone else, look to move on in 2015.

Anything else, IMO, is just staving off the inevitable for the fear of the discomfort. The truth is that we aren't going anywhere with Dalton. I'd rather be an evolving, moving forward 4-12, than a stagnant 9-7 with hopes of "what might be".

[HoosierCat]

I've said before, I'll say it again: what weapons?

Gresham? His flaws are well known. Eifert? Sadly we didn't get a lot out of him, maybe because he wasn't being used right. An incomplete so far. Mo Sanu was gifted the No. 2 spot to start the year and did little. Marvin Jones had some big games. He and AJ are legit, but Green's game could use work and it doesn't look like he is putting that in to me. BJGE? Not a starting caliber back in seemingly everyone's opinion. Gio? Special as a receiver; meh as an RB. But also an incomplete.

I read all the bitching about Dalton and can only shake my head. For three years he's had a rotating cast at WR, RB and TE (not to mention about six different guys at C, G and RT) yet still managed three postseason berths. But sure, go ahead, cut him.

[cincyhokie]

Well, I think that's getting back to the argument of "who makes who good"? It's the Montana over Rice question. The answer is both.

The fact is that players are judged on the biggest stage. Dalton hasn't shown up in 3 games. Of course, neither has Gruden. I don't think Dalton is a terrible QB. I just don't think he's the guy to take the team to the next level. Is there a better solution in the meantime? Probably not. He gets next year to come through. Either he makes a ton of money or is gone. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

[Sea Ray]

How about him ??

How many snaps has he taken in a regular season game ??

How many teams are beating down his agents down trying to get him in a trade ??

How can anyone peg him or any other QB to be the "final piece" ??

I'm not saying he may not be, but I can't say you let Dalton walk to find out.

Hokie, i'm not suggesting it's a fear of what may or may not happen, I think it's just logical.

On one hand you have a guy (Dalton) that even with his issues, has still done many very good things here since day one.

On the other you have guys that have never done anything. I just don't think an organization will make that big of a move.

Right or wrong, I just don't see them doing that.

I'm not suggesting we go all in with him but I would like to acquire him and see how he looks in stripes. Do you think Andy Dalton has earned the priviledge of no competition for his job?

[gregcook68]

I've said before, I'll say it again: what weapons?

Gresham? His flaws are well known. Eifert? Sadly we didn't get a lot out of him, maybe because he wasn't being used right. An incomplete so far. Mo Sanu was gifted the No. 2 spot to start the year and did little. Marvin Jones had some big games. He and AJ are legit, but Green's game could use work and it doesn't look like he is putting that in to me. BJGE? Not a starting caliber back in seemingly everyone's opinion. Gio? Special as a receiver; meh as an RB. But also an incomplete.

I read all the bitching about Dalton and can only shake my head. For three years he's had a rotating cast at WR, RB and TE (not to mention about six different guys at C, G and RT) yet still managed three postseason berths. But sure, go ahead, cut him.

It's me the casual fan again, (tongue-in-cheek) and I know the NFL is light years from college, but when I watch the Eifert highlight films from Notre Dame, I can't help but think that they didn't use him right!

[HoosierCat]

I look at it like this: if another position turned in the relative performance that Dalton did, say a CB. And by that I mean giving up two or three big plays, there would be rightful calls for the guy to get the bench and be replaced, not be given a year 4 to "see" if he can progress. Why are some folks treating this situation so differently?

Which brings up a point related to my comment about the offense's talent level. Say what you will about Andy but he has been working to improve for three years and has made strides. We have seen the same on defense, where guys like Atkins, Maualuga and Taylor Mays have put in the time and effort and reaped results.

But aside from Dalton, who on offense is busting their tail to get better? Green is the exact same player he was his rookie year. Immense physical talents, but still runs poor routes, doesn't always fight for the ball and continues to have communications issues with his QB. Gresham? Well, he's a better blocker but otherwise same guy he's always been, prone to drops, fumbles and penalties. Jones looks to be stepping up, Sanu not so much. Really, the only guy I can point to on the offense who has clearly dedicated himself to becoming a better player is...Moobs.

Maybe it's because so many of the defensive players were cast offs and later round picks. I think I read earlier this year about how Zim had used that as motivation. Gruden needs to take that age from Zim's book.