Is Dalton's Arm Strength an Issue?

[kingwilly]

Let's just get this out of the way: Dalton's arm is not that of other guys his size/proportion - Sanchez, Stafford, Rogers...

Does that really matter, given the offense they run? Not really.

He can get the ball deep to Green and whoever else runs that deep route. He can fire rockets mid-range and short.

More important than the very slight degree of lesser arm strength is his high football IQ. He has strong command of this offense and will only get better with time, and as his offense solifies under Gruden and with Green and cast.

Put it this way, whould you rather have Dalton (good arm/high football IQ) or a guy like Sanchez (great arm/low football IQ)?

That's what is comes down to...

[Earendil]

Dalton's got a lot of questions to answer.

1. His QB rating dropped as season progressed

2. his QB rating was very low at end of close games

3. his QB rating was very low against Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

could very well be due to poor play by his supporting cast, especially the OL which suffered as season progressed. but I still think that these are better questions than the deep ball. other than the Baltimore/Pittsburgh thing, I'm not reading anything about these questions

there's an old adage-- possibly from Paul Brown: "when the weather gets cold, your QB had better have a strong arm." I don't think that weather had much to do with Dalton's fade at end of year. in the only sub-40 degreee game, he actually did pretty well. But I am concerned that he wears out-- he threw a lot more balls last year than he ever did at TCU. but he's young, and maybe he'll grow into this. better footwork might also keep his arm sharper over the long haul of a 16 game season

I think his biggest problem last year was footwork. He was throwing his deep ball off his back foot and wasn't stepping into the throws.

[kingwilly]

Dalton's got a lot of questions to answer.

1. His QB rating dropped as season progressed

2. his QB rating was very low at end of close games

3. his QB rating was very low against Baltimore and Pittsburgh.

could very well be due to poor play by his supporting cast, especially the OL which suffered as season progressed. but I still think that these are better questions than the deep ball. other than the Baltimore/Pittsburgh thing, I'm not reading anything about these questions

there's an old adage-- possibly from Paul Brown: "when the weather gets cold, your QB had better have a strong arm." I don't think that weather had much to do with Dalton's fade at end of year. in the only sub-40 degreee game, he actually did pretty well. But I am concerned that he wears out-- he threw a lot more balls last year than he ever did at TCU. but he's young, and maybe he'll grow into this. better footwork might also keep his arm sharper over the long haul of a 16 game season

I think his biggest problem last year was footwork. He was throwing his deep ball off his back foot and wasn't stepping into the throws.

agree. look again at last nights bomb to Green. He throws of back foot and the ball hangs for a stutter, and Green has to back off slightly to catch it.

/>http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000051218/Pre-WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Dalton-to-Green-connection-strikes-again?module=HP11_content_stream

[Earendil]

agree. look again at last nights bomb to Green. He throws of back foot and the ball hangs for a stutter, and Green has to back off slightly to catch it.

/>http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000051218/Pre-WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Dalton-to-Green-connection-strikes-again?module=HP11_content_stream

I thought so, but I was watching the game on firstrowsports at 320x180 resolution or some crap like that so I couldn't tell for certain. Thanks for the link, now I can see it clearer.

[Sea Ray]

agree. look again at last nights bomb to Green. He throws of back foot and the ball hangs for a stutter, and Green has to back off slightly to catch it.

/>http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000051218/Pre-WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Dalton-to-Green-connection-strikes-again?module=HP11_content_stream

That's pretty nitpicky. That was an awfully nice pass. Granted, not perfect but how many bombs are? It was thrown far enough out there that no defender could touch it.

[ArmyBengal]

Can't say as there is much to complain about in that throw either.

If Dalton can throw off his back foot and the spiral not be perfect and can still hit Green for a 50 yard bomb, color me unconcerned.

[derekshank]

You can watch it 100 times in a row now (courtesy of Kirk over at CincyJungle)

I'm failing to see the criticism here. Dalton wasn't able to set his feet perfectly because of the pressure - but he didn't throw it off his back foot. He also made it look pretty effortless, which makes me believe him when he says he has plenty more power in his arm if he needs it.

If Green had to slow at all to catch it, it was incredibly minimal. That throw was about as close to perfect as you can get to a fast moving target, 50+ yards in the air, with pressure in your face.

[BengalszoneBilly]

You can watch it 100 times in a row now (courtesy of Kirk over at CincyJungle)

I'm failing to see the criticism here. Dalton wasn't able to set his feet perfectly because of the pressure - but he didn't throw it off his back foot. He also made it look pretty effortless, which makes me believe him when he says he has plenty more power in his arm if he needs it.

If Green had to slow at all to catch it, it was incredibly minimal. That throw was about as close to perfect as you can get to a fast moving target, 50+ yards in the air, with pressure in your face.

Green blowing by the CB was pretty impressive too!

[membengal]

Derek, people like to complain for the helluva it, as near as I can tell.

[ArmyBengal]

I think it just goes to show how you can have 10 different people look at the same thing and come up with 10 different conclusions.

It's just the way things are and why some people like players that others can't stand.

Not to bring it up, but you need not look any further than the Carson Palmer debate on this forum.

Many differing views.

In regards to Dalton, I still have no reason to be concerned.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

You can watch it 100 times in a row now (courtesy of Kirk over at CincyJungle)

I'm failing to see the criticism here. Dalton wasn't able to set his feet perfectly because of the pressure - but he didn't throw it off his back foot. He also made it look pretty effortless, which makes me believe him when he says he has plenty more power in his arm if he needs it.

If Green had to slow at all to catch it, it was incredibly minimal. That throw was about as close to perfect as you can get to a fast moving target, 50+ yards in the air, with pressure in your face.

It was a solid throw, but, if you watch, Green has to slow-up just a bit to catch it, but that's always better than over-throwing and missing him altogther. Dalton lacks downfield accuracy, not arm strength, his short passes are bullets and he can make tough throws on the run - it's why he's good. If there's a knock it's height in the pocket (noticed they are rolling him out more this year, I'm assuming due to all of the knocked-down passes at the line last season) and downfield accuracy. He doesn't always hit the tough throws - but who does?

It "looks" like Gruden is designing the offense around his strengths/weaknesses, so, I would assume he'll improve this year, and I certainly hope that offense does a better job this season against winning teams last year, because last year they failed miserably in that category, and Dalton's #'s took a nose dive in those games as well (2nd half mostly).

Also - his "feet" are set on that throw, he faked to the left to draw the safety over, then winged it to AJ on the right, in what was likely a planned play. Not sure where anyone is getting that it was a "tough throw" - he was set-up nicely and had both feet set the entire time.

[volcom69]

His best throws are right up the middle of the field. If he starts hitting those sideline passes watch out.

[Earendil]

I'm not complaining people. I just noticed that his feet weren't set when he threw the pass and he still managed to get it 50 yards downfield on target. Imagine how good he'll be if he improves his footwork.

[Sea Ray]

I think it just goes to show how you can have 10 different people look at the same thing and come up with 10 different conclusions.

It's just the way things are and why some people like players that others can't stand.

Not to bring it up, but you need not look any further than the Carson Palmer debate on this forum.

Many differing views.

In regards to Dalton, I still have no reason to be concerned.

Actually, by my count 5 of us agree that it was a damn good throw by Dalton, all things considered...

[ArmyBengal]

I think it just goes to show how you can have 10 different people look at the same thing and come up with 10 different conclusions.

It's just the way things are and why some people like players that others can't stand.

Not to bring it up, but you need not look any further than the Carson Palmer debate on this forum.

Many differing views.

In regards to Dalton, I still have no reason to be concerned.

Actually, by my count 5 of us agree that it was a damn good throw by Dalton, all things considered...

You know i'm simply pointing out that people can look at the same thing and come up with differing opinions right ??

10, 5, 3, whatever. I happen to think it was a great throw, but others don't. Such is life.

[derekshank]

Also - his "feet" are set on that throw, he faked to the left to draw the safety over, then winged it to AJ on the right, in what was likely a planned play. Not sure where anyone is getting that it was a "tough throw" - he was set-up nicely and had both feet set the entire time.

I definitely agree that his feet are set on the throw. I initially thought the "happy feet" thing was a reaction to the pressure coming from the right, but you are probably right. It does look more like a fake to throw left. He was looking left, and positioned his body to convince the safety to cheat left before throwing the bomb to Green.

As far as it being a "tough throw" - I don't think anyone is trying to sell it that way. Rather, this was a near perfect throw of the type that Dalton struggled with last year. I'm thinking specifically of the two deep balls that Dalton underthrew in Buffalo, and the overthrow in St. Louis. All three of those plays could have been TDs, but Dalton's inaccuracy forced AJ Green to adjust to the ball and make spectacular catches.

Dalton said he was spending the offseason working on his deep ball. If this play is any indication of the benefit the offseason had, then there is a lot of reason to be excited. Despite some people complaining that AJ Green had to decelerate slightly - throws just don't get much better than that. Dalton put the ball exactly where it needed to be - which was a rarity last year.

Time will tell whether this is something Dalton can do with regularity, but based on this throw - it appears that Dalton has improved.

[HoosierCat]

You know i'm simply pointing out that people can look at the same thing and come up with differing opinions right ??

10, 5, 3, whatever. I happen to think it was a great throw, but others don't. Such is life.

Quite true. That said, I find the whole issue of "Dalton's arm strength" incredibly ironic.

I mean, take a step back for a second. Didn't a wide swath of Bengaldom spend years recently decrying an offense obsessed with lobbing bombs downfield? For a decade, one Bob Bratkowski inflicted an Air Coryell-inspired vertical passing game on us hapless fans. And for this system to (allegedly) work, we needed not only a cannon-armed QB (thus Carson Palmer), but an endless procession of diva and headcase wideouts who could get downfield in time to catch his throws.

We all know how that worked out. And so it was that said wide swath of Bengaldom sighed in relief at the arrival of Jay Gruden, the re-installation of the Ohio River Offense as the basis of the Bengals' attack, the departure of numerous whackjob players and the drafting of the levelheaded Andy Dalton. Who was never, ever, ever billed as a a guy who could put it in a barrel while on his knees from 100 yards away.

The past dies hard, I suppose.

[derekshank]

The past dies hard, I suppose.

True enough.

On the other hand, this discussion keeps coming up - not because Bengal fans lack faith in Andy Dalton. Rather, there are a analysts who feel stupid for predicting Dalton would fail so miserably in Cincinnati. And now that he hasn't, they continue to look for things to validate their original prediction. You know... because nobody likes to admit they were wrong.

Sure there are a number of Bengal fans who will nit-pick Dalton's performances... and I assume they do so, not because they have personally observed anything lacking - but rather, those guys on the magic picture box said so. And I'm inclined to ignore them.

[ArmyBengal]

Funny how things work huh ??

This is something interesting I found written about the newest QB, sure to be a Hall of Famer before taking a real snap in the regular season in Andrew Luck after throwing his pick 6:

It’s the kind of pass he has to avoid making, as he doesn’t have the kind of elite arm strength to get away with such mistakes. That’s not to say he’s noodle-armed. His arm is sufficient. Not great, but strong enough, and coupled with his smarts, should enable him to be quite good.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/19/sunday-night-wrap-that-luck-kid-pretty-good/

Sound like anyone we know ??

[COB]

Funny how things work huh ??

This is something interesting I found written about the newest QB, sure to be a Hall of Famer before taking a real snap in the regular season in Andrew Luck after throwing his pick 6:

Its the kind of pass he has to avoid making, as he doesnt have the kind of elite arm strength to get away with such mistakes. Thats not to say hes noodle-armed. His arm is sufficient. Not great, but strong enough, and coupled with his smarts, should enable him to be quite good.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/08/19/sunday-night-wrap-that-luck-kid-pretty-good/

Sound like anyone we know ??

Not just Andy Dalton, but Joe Flacco. Some will recall that his arm strength was questioned coming out of college, and he's done fine, in fact is now considered to have one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Dalton and Luck could end up with the same reputation - that of having a strong arm. Dalton is kind of lobbying for that now, he laughs at stuff that questions his arm strength.

[derekshank]

Not just Andy Dalton, but Joe Flacco. Some will recall that his arm strength was questioned coming out of college, and he's done fine.

I don't think that's true. I seem to remember people saying he had one of the strongest arms in college football.

I also debate your claim that he's done fine.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, I always thought that Flacco's arm was something that wasn't really in question.

I could go back and check, but I don't care enough.

I do find it funny that Luck's arm can come into question, but he has smarts and has been a winner in college, so he's the next coming. Meanwhile Dalton fits that same description and is going to have problems unless he works real hard.

I'm not hating Luck by any stretch, I just find it odd how things get twisted.

[Sea Ray]

Until this morning, I'd never read an article that questioned Luck's arm strength. I don't think that's a question at all so I guess it does go to show that a lot of strong armed QBs have their arm questioned from time to time

[HoosierCat]

Hensley wades in today...

/>http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/53078/bengals-dalton-unleashes-his-sophomore-swagger

I dunno about the whole bland-to-swagger thing, tho. Dalton seemed pretty fired up most of the time last season, too. But column inches must be filled, I suppose, and I've read worse

[skyline]

Hensley wades in today...

http://espn.go.com/b...phomore-swagger

I dunno about the whole bland-to-swagger thing, tho. Dalton seemed pretty fired up most of the time last season, too. But column inches must be filled, I suppose, and I've read worse

Yeah, not a bad read. I do think he's more confident this year (how could he not be?) and I love how he's handled the media regarding his arm strength. If Hensley wants to label that as swagger, then I'm okay with that.