Bengals @ Steelers Pregame Chatter

[derekshank]

This thread is to discuss Bengals/Steelers related topics only. If you wish to discuss the moderation of this board, then please take that up with myself or another mod via PM. All other posts on this subject will be considered off-topic and deleted.

Thanks.

I respect that and will relent.

But I think this is a subject worth discussing as a group, and I fear that a thread on this topic will be quickly deleted.

I was not attempting to derail the thread, so my apologies... but it was a moderator who thought this thread was worthy of a somewhat lengthy post about why sweeping changes were required. I was responding to that.

[HairOnFire]

Honestly I don't expect a strong game from the defense on Sunday. Their only hope is to pressure Ben a lot, and I'm skeptical they can do enough of it to slow them down.

Getting pressure is important, but I'm more worried about how the Bengals will attempt to generate that pressure. As prevously noted the Bengals sacked the Biggest Ben five times in the earlier game, but IMHO that end result wasn't very impressive from a Bengal standpoint. And that's because on too many plays the Biggest Ben simply extended the play by moving around the pocket before exploiting the Bengals aggressiveness with misdirection or checkdowns thrown towards areas already vacated by LB's. Without Dunlap, a player capable of routinely beating the Steelers blocking schemes, I'm expecting more of the same.

For example, in the past when the Bengals have been unable to generate enough pass rush using it's four down linemen it has attempted to compensate using more blitzing, especially from the safety and CB positions. Against a QB who knows the Bengals defense as well as the Biggest Ben does that feels like a recipe for disaster.

Moving on, I'm guessing the reason the Bengals have demoted Michael Johnson is rooted in his frustrating lack of dicipline when tasked with maintaining outside containment in both the run and pass defense. Simply put, the kid loves the inside rush and opposing offenses have noticed and exploited his habits. In fact, I've been writing about it since Johnson was badly exposed during the Jags opening drive several weeks ago. When Johnson lines up the edge is there for the taking by opposing runners, and QB's like the Biggest Ben have learned they can buy time by escaping the pocket towards Johnson's side. or if you prefer, too often Johnson finds himself trapped in pocket trash due to his love of inside technique.

Last, I doubt a player like Jonathan Fanene is even capable of being productive throughout a full game due to his career long conditioning issues. Granted, he's often suprisingly productive, but IMHO only in short bursts. When given extensive playing time he rapidly wears down and loses his push.

[HoosierCat]

Benson and Peko back to practice, per reedy.

Sims, Dunlap and Clements all not practicing.

[derekshank]

Benson and Peko back to practice, per reedy.

Sims, Dunlap and Clements all not practicing.

The Clements thing seems like pretty terrible news... except that when asked if Clements will be able to play, Lewis said "I think so."

[skyline]

Honestly I don't expect a strong game from the defense on Sunday. Their only hope is to pressure Ben a lot, and I'm skeptical they can do enough of it to slow them down.

Getting pressure is important, but I'm more worried about how the Bengals will attempt to generate that pressure. As prevously noted the Bengals sacked the Biggest Ben five times in the earlier game, but IMHO that end result wasn't very impressive from a Bengal standpoint.

Not terribly impressive, but not terribly alarming, either.

Ben's final stat line: 21/33 245 yards 1 TD 1 INT

His completion percentage is higher than I would like, but at the end of the day, those are #s I can live with. Looking at the stats, it seems like our passing offense is what did us in. Only a 50% completion rate and 2 picks. That could be attributed prartly to Green missing 3/4ths of the game and partly to Dalton seeing the Pitt. D for the first time. If we hold Ben to similar #s and our offense is able to stay on the field more (a.k.a. keep Pitts offense OFF the field), then I think we have a chance.

What does lend credence to your argument, though, is that Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP. At least 13 of those 1st down conversions came on 1st or 2nd down and a lot of those were probably thanks to Ben doing just what you were talking about. The one encouragement I have there is that we lost Leon Hall early that game, and the backups were seeing more playing time than they were used to. Hopefully they'll be a little better prepared this time around (assuming Clements is able to go).

[cincyhokie]

Benson and Peko back to practice, per reedy.

Sims, Dunlap and Clements all not practicing.

Uh, without Clements we are f**cked. I love how hamstring injuries are as easily aquired on this team as the common cold.

[HairOnFire]

So... this is the biggest game of the season thus far, right? And what's happening at Bengalzone? Crickets and tumbleweeds.

On the plus side, for those of us who have been away catching up was very easy to do....especially if you ignore the posts written in elf-speak.

[derekshank]

Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP.

It was really a tale of 2 halves again with the Bengals though. In the first half The Steelers converted 5 of 7 3rd downs... and they were all 3rd and longs (3rd and 10, 3rd and 10, 3rd and 6, 3rd and 19, 3rd and 7).

In the 2nd half, the Steelers were 0-5 on 3rd down... and aside from their one scoring drive in the 2nd half, managed only 53 yards... including 4 of their possessions being 3-and-outs.

If the defense plays that way the entire game, instead of just the 2nd half... I'd just about guarantee a win.

[HairOnFire]

What does lend credence to your argument, though, is that Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP. At least 13 of those 1st down conversions came on 1st or 2nd down and a lot of those were probably thanks to Ben doing just what you were talking about. The one encouragement I have there is that we lost Leon Hall early that game, and the backups were seeing more playing time than they were used to. Hopefully they'll be a little better prepared this time around (assuming Clements is able to go).

Outside of repeated examples of Clements simply falling down I don't think the CB play has been that bad. The more troubling breakdowns IMHO have involved breakdowns in coverage by the LB corp and the deep safety coverage. To that end, we're starting to see more playing time for Taylor Mays and less for Chris Crocker, but I worry that's likely to be a mixed bag as well since Mays has far less experience in Zimmer's scheme.

As for the stats provided, I find them to be more of a curiosity that anything else. Or if you prefer, my eyes are telling me the Biggest Ben has been gashing us at all the wrong moments due to his familiarity with everything the Bengals are attempting to do. When pushed into must pass situations, including in examples where he needs a buttload of yards, the Steelers always seem to dial up the right play.

[derekshank]

Per Reedy:

Out: Moch;

Doubtful: Dunlap;

Questionable: Clements, Sims, Crocker, Lee;

Probable: Benson, Ghee, Peko, Simpson

I'd like to echo volcom's comment about Lee. I was impressed with what he brought to the table when Gresham was out (in fact, he was better than Gresham between the 20s)... and the Gruden should be able to create some big mismatches with 2 quality TEs.

[skyline]

What does lend credence to your argument, though, is that Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP. At least 13 of those 1st down conversions came on 1st or 2nd down and a lot of those were probably thanks to Ben doing just what you were talking about. The one encouragement I have there is that we lost Leon Hall early that game, and the backups were seeing more playing time than they were used to. Hopefully they'll be a little better prepared this time around (assuming Clements is able to go).

Or if you prefer, my eyes are telling me the Biggest Ben has been gashing us at all the wrong moments due to his familiarity with everything the Bengals are attempting to do.

I'm not sure how much familiarity with the Bengals has to do with it. He does the same thing to pretty much every team he faces.

We just have to do our best to limit his big plays and maximize ours, which is pretty much what every football game boils down to. Whether or not the Bengals will be able to pull that off is another matter for a lot of the reasons you mentioned (being able to pass rush effectively, etc.), but I at least feel more optimistic about their chances now than I did before the season began. Even more optimistic than I was the last time we played the Steelers for that matter. AJ Green healthy for an entire game is my biggest hope here.

[HairOnFire]

Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP.

It was really a tale of 2 halves again with the Bengals though. In the first half The Steelers converted 5 of 7 3rd downs... and they were all 3rd and longs (3rd and 10, 3rd and 10, 3rd and 6, 3rd and 19, 3rd and 7).

In the 2nd half, the Steelers were 0-5 on 3rd down... and aside from their one scoring drive in the 2nd half, managed only 53 yards... including 4 of their possessions being 3-and-outs.

If the defense plays that way the entire game, instead of just the 2nd half... I'd just about guarantee a win.

But there's the rub because when matched against the Steelers it isn't unusual to see the above. Too often in years past the Bengals find themselves going into the half feeling lucky the score is as close as it is after getting whipped on a staggering percentage of snaps. For example, either a Pittsburgh turnover late in the half gets them back in the game or it's simply a matter of Pittsburgh being up by only two scores due to the time burned up by ridiculously long scoring drives.

Frankly, I don't have a clue what the answer might be but I'm guessing it's due to the Bengals habit of playing things too close to the vest, on offense and defense, until the scoreboard dictates changes.

[HairOnFire]

I'm not sure how much familiarity with the Bengals has to do with it. He does the same thing to pretty much every team he faces.

We just have to do our best to limit his big plays and maximize ours, which is pretty much what every football game boils down to. Whether or not the Bengals will be able to pull that off is another matter for a lot of the reasons you mentioned (being able to pass rush effectively, etc.), but I at least feel more optimistic about their chances now than I did before the season began.

I won't debate the point any further. Simply put, you either see it or you don't, and crunching stats down to the last number isn't likely to help.

[cincyhokie]

Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP.

It was really a tale of 2 halves again with the Bengals though. In the first half The Steelers converted 5 of 7 3rd downs... and they were all 3rd and longs (3rd and 10, 3rd and 10, 3rd and 6, 3rd and 19, 3rd and 7).

In the 2nd half, the Steelers were 0-5 on 3rd down... and aside from their one scoring drive in the 2nd half, managed only 53 yards... including 4 of their possessions being 3-and-outs.

If the defense plays that way the entire game, instead of just the 2nd half... I'd just about guarantee a win.

But there's the rub because when matched against the Steelers it isn't unusual to see the above. Too often in years past the Bengals find themselves going into the half feeling lucky the score is as close as it is after getting whipped on a staggering percentage of snaps. For example, either a Pittsburgh turnover late in the half gets them back in the game or it's simply a matter of Pittsburgh being up by only two scores due to the time burned up by ridiculously long scoring drives.

Frankly, I don't have a clue what the answer might be but I'm guessing it's due to the Bengals habit of playing things too close to the vest, on offense and defense, until the scoreboard dictates changes.

+1

[cHaD711Johnson]

What does lend credence to your argument, though, is that Pitt. passed for 18 first downs, which let them extend drives and get the lead in TOP. At least 13 of those 1st down conversions came on 1st or 2nd down and a lot of those were probably thanks to Ben doing just what you were talking about. The one encouragement I have there is that we lost Leon Hall early that game, and the backups were seeing more playing time than they were used to. Hopefully they'll be a little better prepared this time around (assuming Clements is able to go).

Outside of repeated examples of Clements simply falling down I don't think the CB play has been that bad. The more troubling breakdowns IMHO have involved breakdowns in coverage by the LB corp and the deep safety coverage. To that end, we're starting to see more playing time for Taylor Mays and less for Chris Crocker, but I worry that's likely to be a mixed bag as well since Mays has far less experience in Zimmer's scheme.

As for the stats provided, I find them to be more of a curiosity that anything else. Or if you prefer, my eyes are telling me the Biggest Ben has been gashing us at all the wrong moments due to his familiarity with everything the Bengals are attempting to do. When pushed into must pass situations, including in examples where he needs a buttload of yards, the Steelers always seem to dial up the right play.

Definitely agree here. Pac Man hasn't been any type of drop off from the way that Leon was playing, and the stats back that up. Crocker is simply not adequate at Safety anymore. He's not cutting it. It's just hard right now to throw in Mays to find out if he's the answer since we're in the middle of a playoff race.

[volcom69]

Marvin said he thinks Clemants can go, but man if hes out that is going to hurt big time. My guess is we will see alot more Mays, and Wilson at the safety position with Crocker playing some corner. I hate when they move crocker to corner though, i really wish they would have gotten another CB. Oh well looks like Ghee better be something special sooner than later.

Big thing is 3rd downs, last time they could not stop 3rd down all first half of the game, esp 3rd and long! So i hope Zim made the correct changes for this game, and these guys are ready to attack Ben!

[Scottishbengal]

Marvin said he thinks Clemants can go, but man if hes out that is going to hurt big time. My guess is we will see alot more Mays, and Wilson at the safety position

What's the lowdown on Bobby Sands - I thought the team were pretty stoked on drafting him. He played in the pre-season but seems to have disappeared up his own arse since. If we're struggling at S shouldn't he be getting the nod? Unless he's just not at the required standard, but all the noise from the draft room when he was selected pointed to this guy having a bright future in the NFL.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Marvin said he thinks Clemants can go, but man if hes out that is going to hurt big time. My guess is we will see alot more Mays, and Wilson at the safety position

What's the lowdown on Bobby Sands - I thought the team were pretty stoked on drafting him. He played in the pre-season but seems to have disappeared up his own arse since. If we're struggling at S shouldn't he be getting the nod? Unless he's just not at the required standard, but all the noise from the draft room when he was selected pointed to this guy having a bright future in the NFL.

He was a 5th round pick I'm not sure that he's ready to be thrust into a starting role as a rookie. He definitely needs work in the passing game as well. Give him time to develop.

[HairOnFire]

I'm not sure if Sands still has a future here now that Taylor Mays is a Bengal.

[MK83]

The Bengals should be a Top Three team if they win today.

[BengalszoneBilly]

We need to see some of this today!