Cook Extended

[HairOnFire]

No financial details yet. News announced one minute ago.

[derekshank]

No financial details yet. News announced one minute ago.

Way to ruin my good mood.

I believe Cook, not Livings, to be the weakest link of the O-Line.

[HairOnFire]

No financial details yet. News announced one minute ago.

Way to ruin my good mood.

Well, in my defense I'd like to point out how I didn't use an exclamation mark in the thread title.

[derekshank]

No financial details yet. News announced one minute ago.

Way to ruin my good mood.

Well, in my defense I'd like to point out how I didn't use an exclamation mark in the thread title.

Fair enough. But perhaps instead of omitting the exclamation point, you could have added a question mark.

Cook Extended!?!

[BengalPappaw]

No financial details yet. News announced one minute ago.

Way to ruin my good mood.

I believe Cook, not Livings, to be the weakest link of the O-Line.

Sad part is that it doesn't matter who is the WEAKEST -- they are both weak!

When is the O-line coach and management going to replace them.

It seems to take forever to get a better (or good) lineman and then even longer to get that lineman in the line.

I still believe that Boling is a better player than Livings.

But, look at the backup at center -- Reggie Stephens. Is he an improvement?

Next year's draft and free agents had better be focused on that O-line. (A new line coach would also make me happy)

[Stripes]

I'll reserve judgment for the finances, but my initial reaction to the thread title was a shrug. Cook's below average but not horrible, imo. I hope he's not in their long term plans as a starter.

[COB]

Cook has looked better during this preseason. I thought he looked a lot better. We need a new guard now, and a new guard next fall. That's two guards for anyone who's counting.

[HairOnFire]

No financial details yet. News announced one minute ago.

Way to ruin my good mood.

I believe Cook, not Livings, to be the weakest link of the O-Line.

Perhaps, but I'm reminded how Cook has worked his way from the practice squad into the starting lineup. And now he's penciled in as a starter through 2015. So decide for yourself how much of a good or bad thing this news might be.

Mixed feelings are appropriate, I admit.

[HairOnFire]

Per Bob Glauber it's a four year extension....5 million guaranteed....14 million total.

[HoosierCat]

ShulaSteakhouse:

[HoosierCat]

Per Bob Glauber it's a four year extension....5 million guaranteed....14 million total.

Good deal. If someone better develops he isn't uncuttable due to salary. In the meantime, he works for me. I have more of an issue with the guys on either side of him.

[Spor_tees]

I wonder if Alexander gets some kind of cut from all these extensions that the O-lineman are getting. Cook definitely owes him something, maybe a gallon of Graters icecream, a rack of Montgomery Inn ribs, and a happy ending from over the Rhine.

[derekshank]

Cook has looked better during this preseason. I thought he looked a lot better. We need a new guard now, and a new guard next fall. That's two guards for anyone who's counting.

Yeah. I am counting. But Livings isn't as bad as people think he is. It's just looks especially ugly sometimes because Cook may just be worse. And 2 below average Linemen right next to each-other isn't always pretty.

For that very reason... I will be pretty pissed if Boling is the plan for replacing Bobbie next year. On the other hand, I will be plenty pleased if Boling replaces either Livings or Cook (I don't care which one)... and I'd like to see Andre replace Bobbie with the RT being drafted in the 1st round next year.

[membengal]

Eh, Derek, if Andre keeps doing what he has done this pre-season, he stays put at T in my world.

As for Cook, C is one of those weird positions that is next to impossible for me to evaluate properly. It also is one of those rare positions in the NFL where the longer guys play it, the better they get it seems, as opposed to worn down.

God knows I didn't see Brahm being what he was so late in his career here.

All of which is to say, Cook doesn't overwhelm me, but may be there is still room for him to keep improving.

[derekshank]

If Andre keeps doing what he has done this pre-season, he stays put at T in my world.

Probably not just in your world... but also in reality.

And don't get me wrong. I like Andre, and assume he'll make a damn fine RT. But he would be an outright nasty RG. Bobbie is likely in his last season as a Bengal, and it would be nice to see an actual upgrade at the spot. And that is something I think Andre would be able to provide and then some.

I agree that it is an unlikely scenario. The main thing though is that Andre is the only guy on the roster right now that I'd be happy with as a long term Bobbie replacement.

[HairOnFire]

As for Cook, C is one of those weird positions that is next to impossible for me to evaluate properly.

Shades of Bobbie Williams?

The guys at ProFootballFocus have a wierd somewhat controversial system for grading offensive lineman that almost always results in a player being higher ranked than I might have guessed. For example, ORG Bobbie Williams has been ranked as a Top5 player at his position for each of the last 5 seasons. That shocked me considering the number of times I've seen Carson Palmer being splattered by the guy Williams was supposed to be blocking. But the guys at PFF claim they watch and grade every play, which I most certainly do NOT do, so years ago I began to defer to their rankings. Better yet, they later posted analysis that went beyond the number of sacks and hits surrendered by comparing how quickly each blocker was beaten. And in that analysis was the answer why Williams was higher ranked than I would have guessed. Nutshelled, Bobbie Williams almost never gets beat for a sack, but when he does get beat it's from the snap and rarely recovers. Instead, when he does get blown up it happens instantly and in a very big way....which always attracts the eye. Yet overall Williams play was good enough to rank him amongst the very best at his position.

As for Cook, in his first season as a starter PFF ranked him very low (26th?), bumped him up to 16th ranked in his second season, and pegged him 12th best last season. Plus, this season they're predicting a breakout year for Cook.

[derekshank]

As for Cook, in his first season as a starter PFF ranked him very low (26th?), bumped him up to 16th ranked in his second season, and pegged him 12th best last season. Plus, this season they're predicting a breakout year for Cook.

Do you happen to have a link?

The last time I looked through PFF's site I couldn't find complete rankings. Only a top 10 and a bottom 10. Cook wasn't listed in either place, so concluded he must have been right around the 11th worst... but you're suggesting he's closer to the 11th best.

Frankly, I've always felt that Cook has been given a free pass by fans, simply because of who he replaced. And yeah, Cook is lightyears better than Ghiaciuc. But that doesn't mean he's adequate... let alone good.

Regardless, I'd be interested to see those rankings, because those nerds do their homework.

[derekshank]

So, am I reading this Hobson quote right?

Hall and Whitworth know their deals say a lot more than the Bengals’ hit on this year salary cap, which figures to in the $14 million range. It says what the club expects from Whitworth and Hall in the locker room. And Hall says he expects to win.

Cincy had $29 million in cap space. That takes them to about $15 millon. If Palmer were to show up and add his $11.5... that would take them down to $3.5 million in cap space... and that would put Cincy in the top 10 in most money spent.

So much for stereotypes I guess.

[HoosierCat]

So, am I reading this Hobson quote right?

Hall and Whitworth know their deals say a lot more than the Bengals’ hit on this year salary cap, which figures to in the $14 million range. It says what the club expects from Whitworth and Hall in the locker room. And Hall says he expects to win.

Cincy had $29 million in cap space. That takes them to about $15 millon. If Palmer were to show up and add his $11.5... that would take them down to $3.5 million in cap space... and that would put Cincy in the top 10 in most money spent.

So much for stereotypes I guess.

Whit and Hall combined had about a $7 million cap hit under their old deals. So the net hit is another $7 million. That would leave the Bengals around $22 million in cap space. After Cook it's probably a bit lower.

[HairOnFire]

As for Cook, in his first season as a starter PFF ranked him very low (26th?), bumped him up to 16th ranked in his second season, and pegged him 12th best last season. Plus, this season they're predicting a breakout year for Cook.

Do you happen to have a link?

The last time I looked through PFF's site I couldn't find complete rankings. Only a top 10 and a bottom 10. Cook wasn't listed in either place, so concluded he must have been right around the 11th worst... but you're suggesting he's closer to the 11th best.

The complete rankings used to be available to everyone, but I'm pretty sure you have to be a premium subscriber now....which I no longer am. As a result I had to fall back upon my admittedly faulty memory...(cough)...for the rankings given. Thus my uncertainty about Cook's ranking in his first year as a starter. However I remember writing about his 20-something ranking that year, though modest, was still dramatically higher than the previous season with Ghiacuic, but not good enough to quench my desire for an upgrade at OC in that years draft.

Obviously that didn't happen.

Regardless, the larger point I was trying to make had to do with the way Cook's rankings have improved each season and wondering if his reputation, like that of Williams, might be less than deserved for the same reasons the rankings for Bobbie Williams were so surprising to me. Is he better than we think he is? Are we focusing too much on his blowups and not enough on the things he does well?

Last point. One of the things that jumped out at me a when I was scanning the player rankings at all positions was how the gap between the highest and second highest ranked player was greater at the OC position than any other, offensive or defensive. In short, at the center position there's Nick Mangold and then there's everybody else.

[volcom69]

I can tell alot of people dont like him, but in 09 i thought he did pretty good out there. Last year wasnt his best, but i thought this preseason he hasnt looked that bad. He can help Andy get protections right, and for some reason Marvin really likes this guy. So if he gets back to the 09 Cook i think he will be ok! I also think the guards bring him down, but last two preseason games i have been impressed with the whole o-line and how physical they have looked pushing guys around.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Cincy had $29 million in cap space. That takes them to about $15 millon. If Palmer were to show up and add his $11.5... that would take them down to $3.5 million in cap space... and that would put Cincy in the top 10 in most money spent.

So much for stereotypes I guess.

No, it's the usual stereotype. Brown starts with a ton of cap space, maintains it through free agency, then uses it to extend mediocre players to long term deals, just like always.

Whitworth's OK for an LT, Cook's never impressed me, and Hall is an OK #1 corner. I don't see any of them as being the core talent of a winning team. I think they can be contributors, but if that's the best you got you'll be losing for a good while.

Which they probably will, from the looks of this team.

In short, it's not just the Mike Brown is somewhat cheap - he spends his money very badly.

[Spor_tees]

Whit is more than just an ok LT. Wasn't he a Pro Bowl alternate last year? Lest you soon forget how good of a LG he was when he first came into the league and Willie Anderson was still at LT. Hall is also better than just 'ok.' The guy hasn't missed a game since coming into the league, and last year many pundits labeled Hall and JJoe as one of the top corner tandems in the entire NFL.

Now Cook I would just label him as serviceable at this point, though he has beaten out just about every guy Bengals fans have rooted to come in and beat him. Wilkerson and Luigs are two that come to mind. Best bet scenario is Cook someday can turn into Buckethead Rich Braham and be an excellent center who never made a Pro Bolw because he never got the respect he deserved.

[derekshank]

Whitworth's OK for an LT

OK? More proof that you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about.

/>http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/15/2277251/more-evidence-andrew-whitworth-is-one-of-the-leagues-top-left-tackles

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Whitworth's OK for an LT

OK? More proof that you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about.

/>http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/7/15/2277251/more-evidence-andrew-whitworth-is-one-of-the-leagues-top-left-tackles

Really, any particular reason you're using a message board to play tough guy? Lose the personal attacks. I've never resorted to name calling against you and there's no need for that crap.

Other than that, I don't think he's bad, but I've never seen him as a franchise LT. Hence, OK. I'll even go for "good but not great". That's fine. Others are quite entitled to disagree.

It should probably be pointed out that you've blatantly cherry-picked that study from among many others who don't have Whit in the top 10 LT. Nice try, though.

Again, I didn't say he's *bad*, and certainly he's worth keeping around. But I stay by my original point - it's hard to get better when your only moves are to extend players you already have on a bad team.