Andy Dalton or Bust

[HoosierCat]

Hobson predicts that Andy Dalton will start on opening day, whenever that turns out to be.

The lockout would appear to have made the decision final, forcing Dalton to be the Opening Day starter. It would seem the Bengals don't have time to prepare a rookie quarterback in an offense new to the team, never mind two quarterbacks, so Dalton would figure to get the bulk of the now precious camp snaps. There is no veteran like Jon Kitna sitting back there with 27 starts in the same system waiting to mentor a Carson Palmer.

Although the Bengals have said they're mulling bringing in a veteran free-agent quarterback one has to figure it isn't going to be a big-money potential starter with the investment in Dalton. If they want a vet West Coast offense backup, there are guys like Tarvaris Jackson and Trent Edwards out there, as well as Bruce Gradkowski, a guy that started 11 games while Gruden was in the Tampa Bay pressbox.

FWIW I think it's the right way to go.

[cincyhokie]

Hobson predicts that Andy Dalton will start on opening day, whenever that turns out to be.

The lockout would appear to have made the decision final, forcing Dalton to be the Opening Day starter. It would seem the Bengals don't have time to prepare a rookie quarterback in an offense new to the team, never mind two quarterbacks, so Dalton would figure to get the bulk of the now precious camp snaps. There is no veteran like Jon Kitna sitting back there with 27 starts in the same system waiting to mentor a Carson Palmer.

Although the Bengals have said they're mulling bringing in a veteran free-agent quarterback one has to figure it isn't going to be a big-money potential starter with the investment in Dalton. If they want a vet West Coast offense backup, there are guys like Tarvaris Jackson and Trent Edwards out there, as well as Bruce Gradkowski, a guy that started 11 games while Gruden was in the Tampa Bay pressbox.

FWIW I think it's the right way to go.

I wouldn't mind seeing Gradkowski as a #2. I say start Dalton as well. What do we have to lose? Another losing season? Another QB getting Bengalized, injured, or not living up to expectations?

Run the crap out of the ball and concentrate on defense. Start Dalton and see what happens. Worst case scenario might lead us to drafting Luck.

[walzav29]

"Another QB getting Bengalized"

Yes. This is my fear. I guess we'll have to wait and see if he's in camp on time. If he is then I suppose he's the way to go.

[volcom69]

I think if Dalton has the smarts, the leadership, the heart to take this team over he can. Only thing that can stop him, is if he is just not an NFL QB, so why wait to find out, throw him out there and see what hes got. Give him lots of help, run the ball like they did in 09, and play keep away from the other team. Maybe the defense will regain its strength if the running game is back. Im all for Dalton starting, that way we can see if he has got what it takes to run the Bengals offense.

[ArmyBengal]

I've already said i'm good with Dalton starting.

New toys like Green, second year toys like Shipley and Gresham, new OC, a commitment to running the ball ??

There is reason to believe it could be MUCH better than expected. However, you have to acknowledge the opposite is possible.

My thought is, why not Dalton getting that shot and if nothing else, the experience ??

For what it's worth, Tavaris Jackson is one of those guys I always thought needed a change of scenery.

Is he the next coming of Mike Vick ?? No, but he is athletic and at least capable of running the WCO.

Would he be worse than any other backup QB we have ?? DOUBTFUL.

[Stripes]

Frankly if the opening day starter is NOT Dalton, I will be much less interested in the football game.

[membengal]

Frankly if the opening day starter is NOT Dalton, I will be much less interested in the football game.

This.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm a little worried about the effect of being day 1 starter on the future of young Mr. Dalton. It's hard enough for a rookie to start in a normal year; this year it should be much worse with the lockout. Combine that with a very poor pass-blocking line, and things might go pretty rough indeed.

Thankfully the WC offense tends to get the ball out quickly, but sometimes at the expense of using the TE and RBs as receivers.

Clearly the priority is for the long term, since 2011 appears to be a total scratch at this point. I don't want Dalton to be another on of those QBs who got screwed up by being thrown into a bad situation too fast.

[BengalPappaw]

I'm one that wants to see Andy Dalton start on Day 1. He is not an emotionally weak Carson Palmer.

As a redshirt freshman, Andy Dalton throw 10 TD and had 12 interceptions -- and his world did NOT come to an end. He proceeded to get better every year.

Clearly, I am trying to keep my expectations within reason. I expect him to throw interceptions, but I also think we will see what makes him a winner. He will throw TDs; he will move the team on 3rd downs; he will show a quick decision and release; he is a WINNER.

I don't want any doubt about who the starter is going to be -- ANDY DALTON

Let the discussion center around who will be the backup for one play when the Pittsburgh Squealers take their cheap shots on a rookie QB. Don't worry Andy will be ready for the next play. How's that for expectations!

I've watched many games with Andy Dalton as QB in college. He will make mistakes, but he learns from them. He needs to be the starter so he can start learning right NOW!

Give Andy Dalton a decent offensive line and make our young defense stronger and I think we will be fine.

[ArmyBengal]

Thankfully the WC offense tends to get the ball out quickly, but sometimes at the expense of using the TE and RBs as receivers.

See, this is where I differ. I don't see it being at the "expense" of using the TE's and RB's as receivers. I see that as being the biggest reason Dalton will have success. You have both Scott and Leonard that are more than capable of catching the ball out of the backfield and then you have two TE's in Coffman (the most prolific pass catching TE in college history) and Gresham who presents crazy matchup problems and has both speed and great hands. If this offense clicks with Dalton as the day one starter, I can see it being because of the TE's and RB's being used in that manner.

If I misread what you were saying then my bad...

[derekshank]

I think the idea of "ruining" a player by making him a starter too soon is really overstated.

Perhaps if there is a serious injury, you could "ruin" a player. But other than that, every first year starter will struggle, whether he's a rookie or not. If he loses his confidence in that process and never gets it back... I've got news for you: he doesn't have the mental makeup to succeed as an NFL QB anyway, so you didn't "ruin" him.

Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions and went 3-13 his rookie year. But he did what it took to improve. The sooner the better for Dalton. Let's see what the kid is made of.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The sooner the better for Dalton. Let's see what the kid is made of.

I'm down this notion. The last thing I want to see in Cincinnati is Andy standing on the sideline holding a clip board.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If he loses his confidence in that process and never gets it back... I've got news for you: he doesn't have the mental makeup to succeed as an NFL QB anyway, so you didn't "ruin" him.

Interesting theory, but I don't know that I'd bet the house on that notion. I'd be interested in any psychological research on the phenomenon. My intuition would be that even the psyche of hardened football players isn't that strong.

Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions and went 3-13 his rookie year. But he did what it took to improve. The sooner the better for Dalton. Let's see what the kid is made of.

Peyton Mannings come along once a generation. His support network also consisted of a father who played QB for many years. Not a representative example.

[derekshank]

Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions and went 3-13 his rookie year. But he did what it took to improve. The sooner the better for Dalton. Let's see what the kid is made of.

Peyton Mannings come along once a generation. His support network also consisted of a father who played QB for many years. Not a representative example.

I wasn't suggesting he is representative. I am saying that no rookie QB had it worse than Peyton Manning... but it didn't "ruin" him.

Like I said... aside from injury, I don't think being on a bad team can "ruin" someone. Either you are starting QB material, or you aren't.

Can you name a player was "ruined" by being forced into the starting job too early? And if you can, what evidence do you have that the player wouldn't have been a bust anyway? Frankly, I call BS on the whole idea.

[ArmyBengal]

I also don't think it's as easy as saying the QB will or won't bust based strictly on their makeup.

Meaning, you can have a moderate to even sub average leader succeed if put into a situation where they have both protection and tools on the offensive side of the ball. Couple that with a solid defense and those deficiencies are less notable. That's not to say any of this is a given, only attempting to keep some perspective.

It's the whole reason I think Dalton will be just fine as the starter.

Gruden wants to switch to more of a run first oriented WCO that can exploit short to medium range passes. GOOD FOR DALTON.

Green, Shipley, Gresham, Simpson. GOOD FOR DALTON.

Benson (I think he returns), Scott, and Leonard. GOOD FOR DALTON.

An o-line very capable of run blocking and improving at pass blocking. COULD BE BETTER BUT NOT BAD FOR DALTON.

A defense that finished in the top 5 a couple of seasons ago, who underperformed last season. COULD BE VERY GOOD FOR DALTON.

I'm sure you could make a list of the list that aren't good for Dalton in the starters role, but i'm talking about him getting the shot and looking at what could go well for this offense moving forward. I'm just of the mindset that feels with a new OC and scheme, you may as well develop the guy you intend on being your starter for more than a single season. Dalton is the guy they WANTED and there is a reason for that based on what it is they want to do. JUST NAME HIM THE STARTER AND MOVE ON.

[COB]

I also don't think it's as easy as saying the QB will or won't bust based strictly on their makeup.

Meaning, you can have a moderate to even sub average leader succeed if put into a situation where they have both protection and tools on the offensive side of the ball. Couple that with a solid defense and those deficiencies are less notable. That's not to say any of this is a given, only attempting to keep some perspective.

It's the whole reason I think Dalton will be just fine as the starter.

Gruden wants to switch to more of a run first oriented WCO that can exploit short to medium range passes. GOOD FOR DALTON.

Green, Shipley, Gresham, Simpson. GOOD FOR DALTON.

Benson (I think he returns), Scott, and Leonard. GOOD FOR DALTON.

An o-line very capable of run blocking and improving at pass blocking. COULD BE BETTER BUT NOT BAD FOR DALTON.

A defense that finished in the top 5 a couple of seasons ago, who underperformed last season. COULD BE VERY GOOD FOR DALTON.

I'm sure you could make a list of the list that aren't good for Dalton in the starters role, but i'm talking about him getting the shot and looking at what could go well for this offense moving forward. I'm just of the mindset that feels with a new OC and scheme, you may as well develop the guy you intend on being your starter for more than a single season. Dalton is the guy they WANTED and there is a reason for that based on what it is they want to do. JUST NAME HIM THE STARTER AND MOVE ON.

Bengals 2011 schedule. GOOD FOR DALTON.

[Sea Ray]

I'm a little worried about the effect of being day 1 starter on the future of young Mr. Dalton. It's hard enough for a rookie to start in a normal year; this year it should be much worse with the lockout. Combine that with a very poor pass-blocking line, and things might go pretty rough indeed.

Thankfully the WC offense tends to get the ball out quickly, but sometimes at the expense of using the TE and RBs as receivers.

Clearly the priority is for the long term, since 2011 appears to be a total scratch at this point. I don't want Dalton to be another on of those QBs who got screwed up by being thrown into a bad situation too fast.

I agree. Given the unique scenario we're in, I think we need to start the year with RunPee behind center. Let him lose it to Dalton later

[HairOnFire]

FWIW I think it's the right way to go.

In my very best church lady voice I say...."Well, how convenient."

After all, with each passing day circumstances that are completely out of the Bengals control have conspired to make each alternative to starting a rookie QB, traditionally a worst case scenario, less and less attractive.

And perhaps even crazier, I'd say we've ALMOST reached the point where traditional arguments for signing a more experienced signal caller even as a backup have lost much of their incentive.

Thus, the question of whether to start a rookie QB isn't really a debate over which type of decision is the right way to go, but rather....which choice is most likely to result in slightly fewer turds being forced down our throats.

IMHO any argument in favor of starting a rookie QB are firmly if not totally rooted in Carson Palmer's selfish decision to threaten to retire...thereby backing this team into a proverbial corner where, prior to the draft, it had absolutely NO acceptable options available. So of course, now that the Bengals have drafted some much needed insurance how suprising is it that we increasingly find a healthy consensus amongst Bengal fans who are now willing to claim that the only option still available is actually a good one?

Frankly, the decision to start Dalton, if it actually happens, will most likely turn out to be little more than the latest turd dropped onto our plate since Carson Palmer lost his nuts. Furthermore, I caution any of you who think starting Andy Dalton this season will somehow speed his development. In fact, I'd say it's highly likely the coming season will end without the Bengals knowing what they have in Dalton, just as Cleveland still doesn't know if Colt McCoy is a future long-term starter or a future career backup who has been given the chance to start simply because there were no other options available.

Nushelled, the decision to start a rookie QB can't really be defended as the "right way to go". Rather, it's simply the latest example of a starting position being determined by circumstances rather than by competition. And making matters worse, one of the reasons no competition is possible can be traced back to the decision to further feather Carson Palmer's nest by signing his younger brother to be his backup.

[HoosierCat]

Nushelled, the decision to start a rookie QB can't really be defended as the "right way to go".

Nutshelled, I'm not defending it. I've been advocating it.

[Kazkal]

Frankly if the opening day starter is NOT Dalton, I will be much less interested in the football game.

I'd rather see him then Carson,He may not have probowl season but if He goes 12td & 9 ints I'm cool with that aslong as Cedric runs for 30 :>

[ArmyBengal]

This is a touchy subject for most I would assume and a decision that could be based more on the hatred for one player as opposed to outright support for another.

Meaning, I honestly think Carson presents the best opportunity for this team to win sooner rather than later. For this fan, that's simply not a concern for me. I don't want Carson anywhere near this team and am willing to watch another sub .500 season unfold if it means the organization is moving away from the tightly fitted clown shoes it has worn for quite some time.

I'm sure there are some vet QB's out there that may present a slightly better chance of winning than Dalton, but I just don't see the organization going in that direction. They targeted (quite blatantly) Dalton to run the offense Gruden is installing. I think they felt he was best suited for what they wanted to do moving forward and can't see them bringing in someone else, unless they are trying to improve the backup QB spot and I hope they do.

I gave a bunch of reasons to think Dalton "could" have success come this season, but first you have to define what your expectation are for the coming season having a rookie QB starting. For me success with Dalton would mean an 8-9 win season. Not the Super Bowl, not the playoffs, not much more than development for 2012. However, I also said you could just as easily make a list of things that "could" go wrong for Dalton as the starter, resulting in another 4 win season.

I just want to see this organization turn the page on Carson (and Chad if I had my choice) and do what needs to be done to move on from there.

Nutshelled for me ?? I'll take a 4-9 win season and not look back.

[BengalPimp]

Frankly if the opening day starter is NOT Dalton, I will be much less interested in the football game.

I'd rather see him then Carson,He may not have probowl season but if He goes 12td & 9 ints I'm cool with that aslong as Cedric runs for 30 :>

Problem is, Cedric has never run for more than 7. So if Dalton only throws 12, The Bengals are royally F**ked.

Best case scenario: a ton of Defensive players around the league come in out of shape and Dalton doesn't get murdered the first couple of weeks.

Worst case scenario: Far worse #'s than Akili Smith ot David Klingler (remember, neither Smith nor Klingler threw that many picks, they were just unable to move an offense at all)

Most likely scenario: Dalton looks every part of a Rookie QB who missed valuable learning time during the lockout, looks lost quite a bit, and at the end of the season, the Bengals still have no clue what they have with Dalton, and take a QB again next year.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not mad, just curious, but for all those not wanting Dalton to start, what's your plan ??

Runpee ?? 4 win season.

The other guy ?? No better.

FA QB ?? Maybe. Name your guy.

I just don't see why they wouldn't give him the shot knowing what we know with what Gruden is trying to do.

Again, I say start him expecting a difficult season that at best nets us a .500 season.

I'm not saying the guy is taking us to the playoffs in 2011.

[HairOnFire]

Nushelled, the decision to start a rookie QB can't really be defended as the "right way to go".

Nutshelled, I'm not defending it. I've been advocating it.

Nice. A link to a website that sometimes crashes my computer, as we've previously discussed.*

Bastardo!

Let me guess what I couldn't actually read for myself. No veteran QB available is worth signing AND you wouldn't take Palmer back under any circumstance. In short, you've convinced yourself that due to unique circumstances the very best plan remaining when considering the starting QB position is moving forward with as many self imposed restrictions as possible.

Of course, it probably sounds differently when you say it, right?

* FWIW I've discovered the source of my computer problems but a lasting fix is proving difficult. A relative unknowingly sent an e-mail containg a virus named DSO Exploit, and it's proving itself more difficult to remove than most. (Hints, advice, wild ass guesses, and handy suggestions happily accepted.)

[HoosierCat]

Nice. A link to a website that sometimes crashes my computer, as we've previously discussed.*

Sorry to hear you're still having problems. Here's the post (from June 23):

Commentary: Forget the Veteran Quarterback Option

Noodling on the Cincinnati Bengals' potential roster on offense, The Enquirer's Joe Reedy writes:

With all indications of a Carson Palmer retirement forthcoming, the Bengals still need another veteran quarterback. Possible names to watch would be Bruce Gradkowski, Billy Volek and Jim Sorgi. As Jason LaCanfora pointed out on the connect the dots between Gradkowski and the Bengals, Gradkowski has experience in Jay Gruden’s system, spending three seasons in Tampa Bay. He has been injured though the last two seasons.

Let me say just one word seven times: NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Veteran quarterback? Do not want.

Let me be blunt: the Bengals are not going to the playoffs in 2011. A .500 record would be a victory. A winning record would be a miracle and should result in getting Marvin Lewis Coach of the Year honors. But the Steelers and the Ravens have the same "easy" schedule we do and will be hard-pressed to lose more than four or five games each. Bengals wins in 2011 will not be measured in the teens, I guarantee you. My personal over/under on wins is six.

Given the poll results here, I may be in the minority, but I see this as a rebuilding year. Bringing in some retread like Gradkowski, never-was like Sorgi or fading vet like McNabb will only delay the process. They tried this in the Nineties with a string of retread/vet/who? QBs (Paul Justin, anyone? Gus Frerotte? Neil freakin' O'Donnell?) and it didn't work. I say: let's find out what we have.

Is Jordan Palmer the answer? I doubt it -- but let's find out. Does Andy Dalton have the chops for the NFL game? Let's find out.