I've had enough Bengal bashing

[cincy9275]

the man has had 2 decent o-lines and 1 damn good player in 18 years. if you coached over 100 players and only 1 gets recognized for being a good player. you suck as a coach. he is a complete fail period! our o-line year after year looks like a bunch of holding, false starting, unprepared players and that is a fact!

I'm not in love with Alexander by any stretch... but you are really overstating your case.

For instance... Rich Braham couldn't make the team in Arizona. He became one of the best Centers in the NFL under Alexander's coaching.

In '05, Cincy had one of the best O-Lines in the NFL, ranked 2nd in the NFL in sacks allowed, and 11th in the NFL in rushing.

Once Steiny left, his play dropped off considerably in Cleveland (coincidence?). Levi and Willie broke down, Andrews wasn't worth the money, and Ghiaciuc wasn't an NFL caliber player (not just in Cincy... but everywhere).

So, they started over. In '09 the O-Line had almost no experience. Whitworth hadn't started at LT since college, and with the exception of an aging Bobby Williams, the rest of the group were undrafted free agents. That group was in the top 10 in sacks allowed and top 10 in rushing yards. In fact, I remember Alexander getting national praise on the NFL network for what he was able to accomplish with that group.

So, you don't think he's a good coach? Fine. You are entitled to your opinion... but don't act like it is an indisputable fact. It isn't. And you have to ignore a lot of success to reach the conclusions you have.

sorry i disagree when you do anything 18 times and fail 16 times i hardley consider that as having a lot of sucsess.

[ArmyBengal]

I think there is more than one way to view things when considering Alexander and while there have been times you would have expected more, there were times they did better than imagined. Would I like to see more consistency and discipline from the unit overall ?? Of course, but unless someone here has knowledge of the inner workings of how things go with him and the coaches, it really is hard to pinpoint and place on blame on one person. Sure we used a 1st rounder on Smith, but was that his choice and what about the rest of the unit ?? A 2nd rounder in Whit ?? Then what ??

In my person opinion, the o-line has been the most ignored unit on this team.

What I don't know is, who's to blame ??

If it's strictly Alexander, fine.

Something tells me it's not just him though and how you take a guy like Palmer #1 overall and NOT build an o-line for him is ridiculous.

Look at Sanchez in New York. Not the greatest QB in the league, but he has taken them to and won playoff games.

Look closer and you find one of the better o-lines in the league.

[derekshank]

sorry i disagree when you do anything 18 times and fail 16 times i hardley consider that as having a lot of sucsess.

I'm fine with you disagreeing... but you need to define the word "fail" when you say he's done it 16 out of 18 times. I gave 3 examples of success off the top of my head... and one of those examples included an O-line with zero 1st round picks, and three undrafted FAs with no starting experience prior to their time in Cincy.

Show me 16 years where he has underachieved with a group full of high draft picks, and I'll concede your point (*hint: you can't do it... because it hasn't happened).

Look at Sanchez in New York. Not the greatest QB in the league, but he has taken them to and won playoff games.Look closer and you find one of the better o-lines in the league.

Exactly. In '09 the Jets had four 1st round picks starting on their o-line. The Bengals had zero. I'd say failure was the expectation... and any success should be a credit to Alexander, given the talent with which he had to work.

[cincy9275]

the man has had 2 decent o-lines and 1 damn good player in 18 years. if you coached over 100 players and only 1 gets recognized for being a good player. you suck as a coach. he is a complete fail period! our o-line year after year looks like a bunch of holding, false starting, unprepared players and that is a fact!

I'm not in love with Alexander by any stretch... but you are really overstating your case.

For instance... Rich Braham couldn't make the team in Arizona. He became one of the best Centers in the NFL under Alexander's coaching.

In '05, Cincy had one of the best O-Lines in the NFL, ranked 2nd in the NFL in sacks allowed, and 11th in the NFL in rushing.

Once Steiny left, his play dropped off considerably in Cleveland (coincidence?). Levi and Willie broke down, Andrews wasn't worth the money, and Ghiaciuc wasn't an NFL caliber player (not just in Cincy... but everywhere).

So, they started over. In '09 the O-Line had almost no experience. Whitworth hadn't started at LT since college, and with the exception of an aging Bobby Williams, the rest of the group were undrafted free agents. That group was in the top 10 in sacks allowed and top 10 in rushing yards. In fact, I remember Alexander getting national praise on the NFL network for what he was able to accomplish with that group.

So, you don't think he's a good coach? Fine. You are entitled to your opinion... but don't act like it is an indisputable fact. It isn't. And you have to ignore a lot of success to reach the conclusions you have.

you need any more proof paul is a piece of s**t! yes it is a indisputable fact! just ask shula lol.

[derekshank]

Did a quick look over at ProFootballFocus on how the O-Line performed last year.

T - Pass Blocking

- Whitworth was the 2nd best LT in the NFL. No surprise to see that Roland was the 7th worst RT in the NFL.

OG/C - Pass Blocking

- Bobbie Williams was the #1 G in the NFL, and no surprise to see Livings as the 14th worst pass blocking G.

- Cook finished somewhere between 11th-21st.

Whitworth and Bobbie were able to have damn decent pass-blocking stats, because teams most likely spent all of their time abusing Livings, Cook, and Roland.

A. Smith should be a major upgrade (if he stays healthy)... but Livings and Cook both need to be replaced. Cook probably isn't going anywhere... but I'd like to see what Jean-Gilles can do at LG. The above article mentions him by name saying, "Max Jean-Gilles was far from a superstar, but offered a noticeable upgrade when he entered the lineup." (referring to Philly's Nick Cole)

[volcom69]

Did a quick look over at ProFootballFocus on how the O-Line performed last year.

T - Pass Blocking

- Whitworth was the 2nd best LT in the NFL. No surprise to see that Roland was the 7th worst RT in the NFL.

OG/C - Pass Blocking

- Bobbie Williams was the #1 G in the NFL, and no surprise to see Livings as the 14th worst pass blocking G.

- Cook finished somewhere between 11th-21st.

Whitworth and Bobbie were able to have damn decent pass-blocking stats, because teams most likely spent all of their time abusing Livings, Cook, and Roland.

A. Smith should be a major upgrade (if he stays healthy)... but Livings and Cook both need to be replaced. Cook probably isn't going anywhere... but I'd like to see what Jean-Gilles can do at LG. The above article mentions him by name saying, "Max Jean-Gilles was far from a superstar, but offered a noticeable upgrade when he entered the lineup." (referring to Philly's Nick Cole)

Same here but i would also they look at Brian Walters. I really dont care that he is old, maybe he can come in here and teach these young guys a thing or two. He was a part of the #1 running game last year, think he would be a huge upgrade.

I also wonder how Leonard Davis would do, i would bring these guys in for a work out, and offer another 1-2 year deal. They need help and thats the fact. Im ok with Williams, and Whitworth, and Smith, your right Cook is going no where, but Livings has to go. Still have no clue why Mathis was never in there last year.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

The Bengals' hired an Arena League coach to be their new NFL offensive coordinator who has no D1 college experience and, quite literally, his experience with big brother was fetching coffee. I rest my case.

Good luck with that Marvin and blinded fans. I give him 3 years here, and he'll be back to Arena ball or in some coaching graveyard like the rest of Mike Brown's hires.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Did a quick look over at ProFootballFocus on how the O-Line performed last year.

T - Pass Blocking

- Whitworth was the 2nd best LT in the NFL. No surprise to see that Roland was the 7th worst RT in the NFL.

OG/C - Pass Blocking

- Bobbie Williams was the #1 G in the NFL, and no surprise to see Livings as the 14th worst pass blocking G.

- Cook finished somewhere between 11th-21st.

Whitworth and Bobbie were able to have damn decent pass-blocking stats, because teams most likely spent all of their time abusing Livings, Cook, and Roland.

A. Smith should be a major upgrade (if he stays healthy)... but Livings and Cook both need to be replaced. Cook probably isn't going anywhere... but I'd like to see what Jean-Gilles can do at LG. The above article mentions him by name saying, "Max Jean-Gilles was far from a superstar, but offered a noticeable upgrade when he entered the lineup." (referring to Philly's Nick Cole)

Same here but i would also they look at Brian Walters. I really dont care that he is old, maybe he can come in here and teach these young guys a thing or two. He was a part of the #1 running game last year, think he would be a huge upgrade.

I also wonder how Leonard Davis would do, i would bring these guys in for a work out, and offer another 1-2 year deal. They need help and thats the fact. Im ok with Williams, and Whitworth, and Smith, your right Cook is going no where, but Livings has to go. Still have no clue why Mathis was never in there last year.

That the best they can do is Nate Livings, just makes me hate Alexander even more. Cook is a joke, he's backup material like a dozen others on this roster in starting roles. Bobbie Williams isn't any better - playoff contenders like the Eagles let guys like that go w/o any problem - they draft replacements sooner than later when their picks don't work out. The Bengals' sign them for 5-10 year deals because they're cheap and desperate like a Vine St. hooker.

[BengalPimp]

The Bengals' hired an Arena League coach to be their new NFL offensive coordinator who has no D1 college experience and, quite literally, his experience with big brother was fetching coffee. I rest my case.

Like any Offensive Coordinator with a half decent resume would come here? Jay Gruden was all the Bengals could get.......

[Stripes]

I give him 3 years here, and he'll be back to Arena ball or in some coaching graveyard like the rest of Mike Brown's hires.

Hue Jackson -- Head Coach, Oakland Raiders

Leslie Frazier -- Head Coach, Minnesota Vikings

[ArmyBengal]

because they're cheap and desperate like a Vine St. hooker.

Ok, so how cheap are we talking here ??

[Sea Ray]

Another exhibit of Bengal bashing showed up today from Rick Reilly of ESPN:

/>http://espn.go.com/espn/rickreilly/

Nothing new for us Bengal fans but Reilly doesn't have a clue either. He seems to think getting rid of Mike Brown is as easy as sending him off to LA and then the NFL will graciously grant us another franchise.

He also gives Carson a complete pass. He doesn't mention that it was at Carson's insistence that they sign TO last year and that MB tried to give Carson weapons to work with last year especially.

An out of town relative said that I just had to see the article and it was a yawner for any experienced Bengals fan

[HoosierCat]

I don't think Mike Brown is a horrible boss. I mean really, who wouldn't want to work for a guy who is loyal to a fault, doesn't insist on accountability or results, and only asks that you show up on time, at least pretend to put some effort into your work, and not badmouth him in the media in return for a six- to eight-figure annual salary (plus benefits)?

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I don't think Mike Brown is a horrible boss. I mean really, who wouldn't want to work for a guy who is loyal to a fault, doesn't insist on accountability or results, and only asks that you show up on time, at least pretend to put some effort into your work, and not badmouth him in the media in return for a six- to eight-figure annual salary (plus benefits)?

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me.

Mike sounds like the opposite of the boss I currently have. Mine is all about results. You don't do your job and make the customer happy, you are out on your ass.

[kingwilly]

I give him 3 years here, and he'll be back to Arena ball or in some coaching graveyard like the rest of Mike Brown's hires.

Hue Jackson -- Head Coach, Oakland Raiders

Leslie Frazier -- Head Coach, Minnesota Vikings

f**king hell, even Chuckie Bresnehan is back as D coordinator in Oakland... WTF is wrong with the world?

[Stripes]

I don't think Mike Brown is a horrible boss. I mean really, who wouldn't want to work for a guy who is loyal to a fault, doesn't insist on accountability or results, and only asks that you show up on time, at least pretend to put some effort into your work, and not badmouth him in the media in return for a six- to eight-figure annual salary (plus benefits)?

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me.

Agreed. I agree generally with Reilly's stance on the Carson issue specifically, but otherwise he has it ass-backwards regarding Brown's treatment of his players.

[Kazkal]

You think Bratowski being fired would quench the bloodlust...Then Paul Alexander opens his mouth

fensive line coach Paul Alexander rolls his eyes at the criticism leveled at left guard Nate Livings in the wake of the sack he allowed Friday night.

This coming from the guy who called Stacey the best tackle in the NFL,How is he still our assistant head coach over Zimmer? How is he still Employed? why isn't he coaching 2A Highschool football?\

Everyone, it seems, wants Livings benched and Alexander's first question is, "Who replaces him?"

How about you coach someone up Genius,how about we sign someone vs one worst guards in football...Maybe we shouldn't have benched Mathis so we should have actually resigned him instead of starting inferior guard.

[Kazkal]

Can mod.just move.this to tired bengal bashing.thread.

[ArmyBengal]

Kaz has some bashing of his own he would like to share.

Without further delay, I present the newest thread merge...

[Kazkal]

Ty army

[COB]

I don't think Mike Brown is a horrible boss. I mean really, who wouldn't want to work for a guy who is loyal to a fault, doesn't insist on accountability or results, and only asks that you show up on time, at least pretend to put some effort into your work, and not badmouth him in the media in return for a six- to eight-figure annual salary (plus benefits)?

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me.

Paul Alexander has that s**t pretty well figured out.

Paul - "Hey Mike, all these other coaches bitch about wanting new draft picks. I'm a good soldier, I go to war with what I have!"

Mike - "Damn, you're my new assistant head coach."