Carson Palmer Thread

[BengalByTheBay]

Again, I also say, that DUI's, drug arrest, and all the rest didn't have s**t to do with Palmer's "trade me or I'll quit" tantrum. The two simply aren't related. Do you honestly think Carson Palmer was sitting in his house with a red face when Chris Henry got repeatedly arrested? Hell no, he was sitting there just like the rest of us repeating "dumb s**t" under his breath.

I would suggest to you that there's a glaring contradiction between the first and last sentence of this paragraph.

No contradiction at all. He can be pissed that a teammate is stupid. That's not a "Bengal" thing despite your attempts to make it so. Players get DUI's all the time - not just Bengal players. My opinion - which seemed relatively clear to me from the above - is that such incidents didn't bother Palmer in the least. He wasn't personally embarrassed by any of it. Hell, he signed a long-term extension smack when it was historically bad. How can you say he just all the sudden decided it was embarrassing to play for a bad team? I'll go you one better - it was actually good for Palmer that there were all these distractions because they distracted from what would probably otherwise be the same extreme scrutiny that goes on in every other NFL city of their QB. Imagine the scrutiny of any other QB making MORE than Tom Brady somewhere else. Palmer was called "elite" well before he deserved it and was saved much of the "what the hell happened to him?" talk while he was contributing to Bengal losses. In short, he got 95% of a pass for a long time just because everybody THOUGHT he was going to get better.

[Spor_tees]

Not defending Palmer at all, because I think if he signs a contract he should live it out, but there has to be something behind the scenes that isn't right. How can you have guys like Lee Johnson, Carl Pickens, Corey Dillon, and now Carson Palmer, all become so unhappy with the organization that it gets this ugly? How many other teams do you consistently hear this many arguments that have the same tone from one player to the next?

Sadly we all love the Bengals and we have to sleep with them no matter how ugly it gets.

[derekshank]

Not defending Palmer at all, because I think if he signs a contract he should live it out, but there has to be something behind the scenes that isn't right. How can you have guys like Lee Johnson, Carl Pickens, Corey Dillon, and now Carson Palmer, all become so unhappy with the organization that it gets this ugly? How many other teams do you consistently hear this many arguments that have the same tone from one player to the next?

Sadly we all love the Bengals and we have to sleep with them no matter how ugly it gets.

Throughout out the many pages of this thread, I've detailed many exampled of other successful teams that have very similar problems.

This isn't unique to the Bengals. It's what happens when spoiled athletes become millionaires.

[Spor_tees]

I think the NFL showed Palmer for the spoiled brat he was. As a player he could pick what college to go to, but in the NFL he was drafted and had no choice. He had to play for Cincinnati no matter what and eventually he got tired of not getting his way.

Funny though that no one says as much about what he did compared to guys like John Elway and Eli Manning. They both were able to force their way onto teams they wanted.

"Hopefully this is the last place I'll end up playing," Palmer said. "That's so rare in this league these days. It's so rare to see a person have a 5-, 8-, 10-, 12-year career in one place. And I feel very fortunate that it looks like that's going to be my future."--ESPN story on Palmer's extension, 12-29-05.

Yep.

Difference between Palmer and Elway/Manning is that they knew where they didn't want to go and forced their trades without ever playing for those teams. Manning forced the trade at the draft and Elway threatened to become the next Joe DiMaggio.

Palmer took the big number-one pick money. He knew what he was getting into--while the team didn't have the character issues in 2003, it did have 13 years of SoP's ineptitude behind it. He knew what he was doing. Now to say that "I'm not coming back because the team sucks"--well, sucks. They sucked when you signed. You knew what SoP was. Even though the 'blind squirrel' Bengals found a couple of nuts in 2005 and 2009, the team is still SoP's legacy of football failure.

What his 'retirement' says is that he realizes he's not good enough to turn a team around. He's no Peyton Manning. He's no Tom Brady, nor Drew Brees. And it has nothing to do with character issues or he wouldn't have signed the extension, or came back after 2006. He's quit on the team and he's quit on himself.

It's honest of him, I'll give him that. I'm in the camp of those that believe his trade value is nowhere near as high as others think. Winning coaches and winning football cultures want no part of a guy that doesn't believe in himself. Palmer does not.

You can't necessarily take Palmer's quote in the context of the present versus when he signed it which was during the 2005 playoff season. IF, indeed Palmer and Mike Brown had an agreement that things would change if he signed the extension to basically make him a lifetime Bengal, and we all know things didn't change, then wouldn't Palmer have some kind of beef?

Honestly I think a big part of what happens in Cincinnati with these guys that end up disgruntled, is Mike Brown comes to them with this big money (for the current market) and all they see is dollar signs and not the big picture. Later they realize they signed a deal with the devil and they are going to be damned to subpar working conditions and a tradition of losing because of it. Once they do wake up, that's when we get what we got here now.

[HoosierCat]

No contradiction at all.

Really?

He can be pissed that a teammate is stupid. That's not a "Bengal" thing despite your attempts to make it so. Players get DUI's all the time - not just Bengal players. My opinion - which seemed relatively clear to me from the above - is that such incidents didn't bother Palmer in the least.

Well, which is it? Was he pissed or not bothered in the least?

Hell, he signed a long-term extension smack when it was historically bad.

??? He signed an extension when he'd led the team to its first playoff game in forever. In fact, when he signed his deal in '05 the Bengals were in their third straight .500 or better season, something they hadn't done since like 1989-91.

I understand you hate Palmer with the burning passion of a thousand suns, but that still doesn't entitle you to your own facts.

[derekshank]

The CBS football show guys just talked about the Palmer situation. Everyone but Boomer said that Mike Brown is doing the right thing, and that Palmer is a quitter.

Shannon Sharpe even said that Mike Brown should never trade him unless Palmer agrees to give 75% of his signing bonus back.

Boomer said some bulls**t about walking a mile in Palmer's shoes... but it was hard to understand exactly what he said since Palmer's dick was in his mouth.

[cincy9275]

can we trade palmer for a head coach? hell i would trade him to the colts for their replay coordinator.

[Spor_tees]

The CBS football show guys just talked about the Palmer situation. Everyone but Boomer said that Mike Brown is doing the right thing, and that Palmer is a quitter.

Shannon Sharpe even said that Mike Brown should never trade him unless Palmer agrees to give 75% of his signing bonus back.

Boomer said some bulls**t about walking a mile in Palmer's shoes... but it was hard to understand exactly what he said since Palmer's dick was in his mouth.

If anyone has the right to talk about this situation it is Boomer. Boomer loves the Bengal's franchise and has seen it while Paul Brown was alive, and since. Mike Brown run him out of town when he drafted David Klingler, then Mike Brown begged him to come back and after one year Boomer told Mike Brown where to stick it. Mike Brown is a slimey little man.

The only reason honestly the Palmer situation hits the fans so hard, is it feels like he turned his back on us and the rest of his teammates. In all actuality we don't hate him for that, but rather for the fact that he has enough money that he could. How many of us fans, that if we hit the lottery, tomorrow would call our boss from a plain on it's way to Jamaica, and tell them we quit? Palmer no longer has the desire to earn a pay check or prove himself. He had moved on to looking for recognition, glory, and a championship, all of which he would never get in Cincinnati. He was not given the opportunity to leave Cincinnati, he has $80 million in his checking account, and now plenty of time to spend with his family at their beach front property in California. Doesn't sound too bad does it?

[derekshank]

Boomer loves the Bengal's franchise and has seen it while Paul Brown was alive, and since. Mike Brown run him out of town when he drafted David Klingler, then Mike Brown begged him to come back and after one year Boomer told Mike Brown where to stick it.

Wow. How's that for revisionist history... now you're just making s**t up to try to paint MB the bad guy.

Esiason demanded a trade after the '91 season. They drafted Klingler in '92, and told Boomer they would trade him at the end of the '92 season. Boomer agreed to those terms.

The only thing that makes Boomer less of a p***y that Palmer is that he didn't quit. But make no mistake... Neither of them were part of the solution, they were part of the problem.

[Spor_tees]

Boomer loves the Bengal's franchise and has seen it while Paul Brown was alive, and since. Mike Brown run him out of town when he drafted David Klingler, then Mike Brown begged him to come back and after one year Boomer told Mike Brown where to stick it.

Wow. How's that for revisionist history... now you're just making s**t up to try to paint MB the bad guy.

Esiason demanded a trade after the '91 season. They drafted Klingler in '92, and told Boomer they would trade him at the end of the '92 season. Boomer agreed to those terms.

The only thing that makes Boomer less of a p***y that Palmer is that he didn't quit. But make no mistake... Neither of them were part of the solution, they were part of the problem.

Boomer was told he was no longer going to be the starter and that they were going to draft his replacement. Mike Brown basically told the guy he wasn't any good anymore. Boomer said he didn't want to sit around and be a backup to some other guy and thought he was still good enough to start elsewhere. Mike Brown actually had enough balls to trade Boomer away (probably only because Boomer threw the 'I played for your father and helped take this team to a Super Bowl card') and it worked. Boomer went on to show in Arizona and NY that he has some game left and Mike Brown brought him back. Crazy huh? Only time I can think of where Mike Brown would, in a round about way, admit he was wrong. Boomer played well in his last year in Cincinnati, then Mike Brown offered him a million for a one year contract. Boomer told him to stick it, and instead chose the Monday Night Booth.

Boomer has seen all sides of the organization in Cincinnati and does have the authority to comment on it. "Until you have walked a mile in my shoes..."

[derekshank]

Boomer was told he was no longer going to be the starter and that they were going to draft his replacement. Mike Brown basically told the guy he wasn't any good anymore.

I don't know if you are lying or just remembering incorrectly... but Boomer demanded the trade the moment Shula was hired.

There were questions about Boomer's arm... but there was no plan to draft Klingler until Boomer demanded the trade. Get your facts straight.

[Spor_tees]

Boomer was told he was no longer going to be the starter and that they were going to draft his replacement. Mike Brown basically told the guy he wasn't any good anymore.

I don't know if you are lying or just remembering incorrectly... but Boomer demanded the trade the moment Shula was hired.

There were questions about Boomer's arm... but there was no plan to draft Klingler until Boomer demanded the trade. Get your facts straight.

Ok how about we both eat a little crow here? A quick Google search brought out the nugget:

When new Head Coach David Shula started rookie QB David Klingler in four games in 1992 in place of Esiason, it was clear that change was coming.

On March 17, 1993 the Bengals traded Esiason to the New York Jets for a third round pick in the ’93 draft (used to take Steve Tovar from Ohio State, who started at middle linebacker for over three seasons).

So yes Boomer demanded the trade AFTER being told he was no longer the starting QB of the future, but as far as where I was wrong, it happened after Klingler was drafted not before.

[derekshank]

Ok how about we both eat a little crow here?

I don't have to eat crow. I'm not wrong.

/>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(NFL_owner)

Esiason has since revealed that he had actually demanded a trade at the end of the 1991 season, which may have influenced Brown to select Klingler.

[Spor_tees]

Ok how about we both eat a little crow here?

I don't have to eat crow. I'm not wrong.

/>http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Brown_(NFL_owner)

Esiason has since revealed that he had actually demanded a trade at the end of the 1991 season, which may have influenced Brown to select Klingler.

I followed the link and didn't see it. The only thing I saw was a quote from Esiason saying Mike Brown was a "Nice man" but is way over his head on trying to run an NFL franchise.

We can argue about the details all day, but fact is Easiason, one of the most beloved Bengals of all time went through the same type of situation Palmer has gone through, with the exception that Mike Brown thought Boomer was done as a player and Palmer probably wasn't.

[derekshank]

Mike Brown thought Boomer was done as a player and Palmer probably wasn't.

It's just not true. MB didn't want to trade Boomer. Collinsworth even said that Brown really liked Boomer and tried to do right by him.

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Monday-notes-Research-Boomer-trade-Lewis-tweaks-Ocho-tweet-Scott-kin-can-do/5199f09b-1783-4a44-8087-b9e839420dd2

When Boomer Esiason secretly slipped into Mike Brown's office to ask for a trade after coach Sam Wyche left following a 3-13 season in 1991, Brown responded by drafting Houston quarterback David Klingler in 1992 and trading Esiason to his hometown New York Jets for a third-round pick after the '92 season.

Mike Brown didn't think Boomer had lost it. In fact, one of Brown's faults cited in his Wikipedia article is how f**king loyal he is. Boomer gave Brown the middle finger here... not the other way around. And Boomer continues to give Brown the middle finger to this day.

Yes... Boomer is a piece of s**t.

[jjakq27]

Boomer asked to be traded after Sam Wyche was fired in late December 1991. Boomer basically said he couldn't play for Shula since he (Boomer) knew the offense better than anyone but Wyche and had no confidence in the abilities of his new coach.

I'm sure the events of the 91 season (Victoria C), the passing of Paul Brown, Boomer's loyalty to Wyche and the general direction of the team were also key factors in his request be traded.

I can also remember reading an article in 2003, in which Boomer had dinner with Palmer and his wife, either right before or right after the draft and gave him an overview of life as a Bengal QB. I've looked for this article but can't find it online anywhere. I seem to remember it being a candid and fair assessment of the situation but that Palmer and Marvin could take things in a positive direction.

[BengalPimp]

The CBS football show guys just talked about the Palmer situation. Everyone but Boomer said that Mike Brown is doing the right thing, and that Palmer is a quitter.

Shannon Sharpe even said that Mike Brown should never trade him unless Palmer agrees to give 75% of his signing bonus back.

Boomer said some bulls**t about walking a mile in Palmer's shoes... but it was hard to understand exactly what he said since Palmer's dick was in his mouth.

Uh, yeah, I'm more inclined to go with the opinion of a guy who played under Mike Brown and for the organization (Boomer), than say Marino, Cowher, or Shannon Sharpe.....lmao, Shannon Sharpe is a Joke.

[BengalPimp]

You've been especially trollish lately.

Hardly bro, I also hate that word "Troll" as every douche on the "Internets" uses that word, not as it's intended, but to rip on somebody who doesn't share their same opinion.....

"Oh, I don't agree with him, I'll call him a Troll" If my behavior ,lately has seemed "Trollish" to you, don't blame me, blame that idiot Mike Brown, for he caused me to be this way.

I will gladly take the heat for still liking Palmer. I like his talent as a QB, and I love his contributions to the Bengals, as he made the Bengals fun to watch again.

Also, if you take nothing else from Carson's trade demands/retirement, know that he made it finally sink in Mike Brown's head that he needed to get rid of Bratkowski.....It wasn't Marvin signing a new contract, with promised change....It was Palmer.......

[HairOnFire]

Frankly, I couldn't care less what any of the CBS talking heads had to say, especially Boomer Esiason.

In fact, the only interesting thing said about Palmer this weekend might have been the Jay Glazer rant dropped right into the televised coverage where Glazer claimed his sources have told him the Bengals have agreed to trade Palmer at some point in the future.

[TJJackson]

at some point in the future.

will it be during this century, by chance?

[COB]

the Jay Glazer rant dropped right into the televised coverage where Glazer claimed his sources have told him the Bengals have agreed to trade Palmer at some point in the future.

Saw it and was kind of amazed the way they went to Glazer in the middle of the game. Plays went on while Glazer gave us an update that consisted of absolutely no update at all. He just blathered on and there was nothing new to say. It was probably good for folks who don't follow the Bengals quite as closely as a lot of us do.

[gregstephens]

at some point in the future.

will it be during this century, by chance?

At the end of his contract?

[HairOnFire]

at some point in the future.

will it be during this century, by chance?

This century?

My, what a poor poor baby. Have you already waited longer than you can stand?

[HairOnFire]

Saw it and was kind of amazed the way they went to Glazer in the middle of the game. Plays went on while Glazer gave us an update that consisted of absolutely no update at all. He just blathered on and there was nothing new to say.

Yeah, mostly this. That said, if I counted myself amongst the Peanut Gallery I might have been pretty excited to hear Glazer claim the Bengals WILL trade Palmer in the future. In fact, just thinking about the salty goodness of the peanut we'll someday be served is enough to get my mouth watering.

Honey-roasted draft picks?

Draft picks in sea salt?

Spanish draft picks?

[TJJackson]

at some point in the future.

will it be during this century, by chance?

This century?

My, what a poor poor baby. Have you already waited longer than you can stand?

No need to pity me, sweetie -- that was just another feeble attempt to keep this octagenerian-paged thread on target for the nineties and beyond

No, no, really - no need to thank me. Really :-)