Carson Palmer Thread

[Sea Ray]

I don't think Carson will show up in Sept but I think he might show up later in the year. According to the CBA, I think the number is 5 games for a season to count. In other words, if Carson shows up for 5 games then this season counts as being fulfilled on his contract. Doesn't mean he gets paid for a full season, but it'd be one less season MB controls him. I can't rule out Carson showing up in Nov sometime

[HoosierCat]

I can't rule out Carson showing up in Nov sometime

I can't either, but at least so far neither side has shown much interest in escalating things. I mean, Palmer could be out there in the media ripping the holy hell out of the team and Mike could be fining the crap out of him...but instead Carson's golfing, the Bengals stuck him on the reserve list, and...that's it.

[cincyhokie]

This is what the death of a 73 page thread looks like.

[BengalByTheBay]

This is what the death of a 73 page thread looks like.

Oh, it's not over. Hear me now and believe me later - it's not nearly over...

[derekshank]

I don't think Carson will show up in Sept but I think he might show up later in the year. According to the CBA, I think the number is 5 games for a season to count. In other words, if Carson shows up for 5 games then this season counts as being fulfilled on his contract. Doesn't mean he gets paid for a full season, but it'd be one less season MB controls him. I can't rule out Carson showing up in Nov sometime

You might not be able to rule it out... but if that's the only power play Palmer has, he's better off retiring.

As you mentioned, when Palmer shows up, his brother is out of a job. That'll make Thanksgiving dinner slightly awkward. Palmer has no ability to effect MB's family life in that way.

If Palmer ignores this, and shows up in an attempt to force MB's hand, I expect it'll make him dig his heels in even deeper. Instead of a possible trade next off-season, Palmer will have to pull the same stunt 4 years in a row to get out from under MB's control. By the time it's all over, Palmer will be 36 years old and at least 5 years removed from what could be considered a good season. In other words, no one is going to want him.

Palmer's best option is the one he's currently making: Hope MB decides to trade him, or else play a lot of golf. It's weak. In fact, you can't even call it a power play... because Palmer has none.

[HairOnFire]

This is what the death of a 73 page thread looks like.

Actually it's a mere 37 pages filled with nearly 1,500 posts, most of which are based upon feelings of anger, jealousy, betrayal, misplaced love, misplaced hatred, and copius quantities of generic butt hurt.

Crazy? Perhaps, but this is how we heal ourselves.

In fact, all that's left to do now is the ritual sacrifice of Jordan "the other" Palmer, something that MUST be done precisely because it's the right thing to do and because of the healing giggles and medicine-like laughter it will produce.

[HoosierCat]

All right people, we need to step it up here, there's still 27 pages to go to get to 100.

So...

As I noted elsewhere, one-time Bengals LB Caleb Miller, known best for his ever-changing hair styles, has taken to posting over on the football pros board, where he dropped this comment on l'affaire Palmer today:

Carson was given exactly jack squat by the Browns. He pushed for so many changes and never saw one come to fruition that I can think of. For example: the food we ate at the stadium was some of the worst food I've ever had in my life (below the quality of my crappy UofArkansas mess hall). You would think an NFL team would not only demand excellence in all areas of its business, but from a practicality standpoint-- feed its 'livestock' something of high quality and nutrition.

Granted, that's a trivial example, but that's the point!!! If they can't change something as basic as the food, nothing will ever change. I could again go on forever, but I have a life to tend to. Just thought if you were a real Bengals fan, you deserve to know the truth (i.e. it's not my rebuttal, not trying to 'tell you how it is,' just stating facts). It's Mike Brown's money and Mike Brown's decisions to make. But he's DEAD WRONG for not letting Carson go (most notably because Carson only re-signed with an agreement that there would be big changes, which of course never happened), and anyone who believes otherwise is ill-informed, illogical, or just plain stupid-- and there's no arguing with stupid.

I found that interesting because it cuts directly against the conventional wisdom that the Golden Boy got everything he asked for, and that Mike made a commitment (or commitments) he didn't honor as well.

Just another data point for the files.

[Spor_tees]

Whatever the food was, it couldn't have been that bad, look at all the weight that Andre Smith put on when he got to Cincinnati.

[volcom69]

All right people, we need to step it up here, there's still 27 pages to go to get to 100.

So...

As I noted elsewhere, one-time Bengals LB Caleb Miller, known best for his ever-changing hair styles, has taken to posting over on the football pros board, where he dropped this comment on l'affaire Palmer today:

Carson was given exactly jack squat by the Browns. He pushed for so many changes and never saw one come to fruition that I can think of. For example: the food we ate at the stadium was some of the worst food I've ever had in my life (below the quality of my crappy UofArkansas mess hall). You would think an NFL team would not only demand excellence in all areas of its business, but from a practicality standpoint-- feed its 'livestock' something of high quality and nutrition.

Granted, that's a trivial example, but that's the point!!! If they can't change something as basic as the food, nothing will ever change. I could again go on forever, but I have a life to tend to. Just thought if you were a real Bengals fan, you deserve to know the truth (i.e. it's not my rebuttal, not trying to 'tell you how it is,' just stating facts). It's Mike Brown's money and Mike Brown's decisions to make. But he's DEAD WRONG for not letting Carson go (most notably because Carson only re-signed with an agreement that there would be big changes, which of course never happened), and anyone who believes otherwise is ill-informed, illogical, or just plain stupid-- and there's no arguing with stupid.

I found that interesting because it cuts directly against the conventional wisdom that the Golden Boy got everything he asked for, and that Mike made a commitment (or commitments) he didn't honor as well.

Just another data point for the files.

Finally guys the reason Carson lost his success here, and decided to retire, because the Bengals food was horrible. Im sure he retired because his wifes food is so much better!

[BengalByTheBay]

I never thought the day would come when Caleb Miller posts would somehow influence anything anybody thought on this board. The funny thing is that - although there's no way to confirm that he is who he says he is - there is an almost iron clad veracity to the thought that it really is Caleb Miller. For the simple reason that ... nobody would claim to be Caleb Miller who wasn't. Hell, I'm somewhat concerned that HE is claiming to be him. What an odd day.

[HoosierCat]

I never thought the day would come when Caleb Miller posts would somehow influence anything anybody thought on this board. The funny thing is that - although there's no way to confirm that he is who he says he is - there is an almost iron clad veracity to the thought that it really is Caleb Miller. For the simple reason that ... nobody would claim to be Caleb Miller who wasn't. Hell, I'm somewhat concerned that HE is claiming to be him. What an odd day.

Yeah, I know. Next thing you know, Sean Brewer will show up...

EDIT: 74 pages! 26 to go!

[cincyhokie]

This is what the death of a 73 page thread looks like.

Oh, it's not over. Hear me now and believe me later - it's not nearly over...

Not if Caleb Miller has anything to say about it.

[Sea Ray]

Sounds like another disgruntled player to me. Is it in the players contract that the Bengals have to feed them too? If that's all he can come up with, I'm not too impressed. Don't they get meal money? Carson has $40mill in the bank. He can buy whatever food he wants.

I'd be more impressed with Miller's gripe if he'd given examples of Bengal meals and compared it to the meals served by other teams in our division. Does anyone really think Carson's AWOL because he got tired of the food?

[membengal]

It also strikes me as massive bulls**t from miller with regard to the palmer contract. Back when palmer happily signed the extension was before he had any rough seasons. There is zero chance palmer demanded any changes prior to signibf the extension back in 2006. That is just plain revisionist crap.

[cincyhokie]

My first thought that comes to mind as I process the Miller files is this:

I don't think, nor have I ever, that the Browns don't want to win. They do.

However, their approach is very old school in the model of Paul Brown that basically said "I am paying you to play and you should be grateful that you are playing." "You owe us, we don't owe you." This line of thought probably used to fly. Old school. Hard nosed. Dirt, no grass on the practice field. Who needs towels? Towels don't win games. Practice bubbles? You practice in the conditions you play in. This is all methodology from an era of football that was very disciplined, not self serving, and team oriented, not individually focused.

Honesty, I can't argue that practice bubbles aren't actually necessary or that towels can't be stolen from the Holiday Inn or that the food in the cafeteria tastes worse than the slop from U of A. There's no ring of honor or retired jerseys. NONE of that wins games. That's a fact. Nobody can argue that those things actually make teams win games. They definately didn't matter or win games in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.

But it's the changes in our game, and even in our culture, that make these things matter. Just because they didn't before doesn't mean they don't now. Mike Brown can argue SHOULD's and OUGHTA's all he wants. It's NOT going to change the fact that things have changed and continue to change. Keep up or get left behind. Logic doesn't always apply and perception IS usually reality.

[HoosierCat]

It also strikes me as massive bulls**t from miller with regard to the palmer contract. Back when palmer happily signed the extension was before he had any rough seasons. There is zero chance palmer demanded any changes prior to signibf the extension back in 2006. That is just plain revisionist crap.

Zero chance? Why? Just because the "rough seasons" were still ahead doesn't mean Palmer may not have seen things he wanted changed (the allegedly crappy food, for example). Is it that unbelievable that Carson, before signing a deal that would keep him in stripes forever, would have asked for a few things? I know if I were in that situation, I would have.

[HairOnFire]

I never thought the day would come when Caleb Miller posts would somehow influence anything anybody thought on this board.

I say that day has not yet arrived.

IMHO Caleb Miller's post is just another example of the clock punching mentality so common on the Bengals roster.

Consider, Miller feels Palmer was disrespected because the Bengals ignored most or all of Palmer's many suggestions, and as proof points a damning finger at the food being served to Bengal players. And then, as if he were trying to make my point for me, Miller freely admits the example he offers is trivial, if not borderline meaningless. And Miller further explains that the trivial quality of his complaint is....(wait for it)....exactly the point.

I agree. However, the conclusions I reach when considering the trivial nature of Miller's complaint is far different than the concusions/excuses Miller reached.

Point blank, Bengal players need to shut the hell up OR come up with a grievance that isn't trivial.

[membengal]

Yes. It is that unbelievable. I know it is your wet dream fantasy that palmer has been crusading on behalf of whodeyrevolution and disgruntled dinks for years, but it just makes no sense. None at all that back in 2006 palmer was demanding "changes" prior to signing one of the five richest deals in nfl history. For one thing, mike brown doesnt change. Nor does he bow to requests to change. And he certainly wouldnt pay $117 million AND grant changes. Not to a player. And not to one who, frankly, didnt have a lot of reason to ask for any changes at the time he signed the extension.

Look elsewhere, conspiracy theorist.

[cincyhokie]

I never thought the day would come when Caleb Miller posts would somehow influence anything anybody thought on this board.

I say that day has not yet arrived.

IMHO Caleb Miller's post is just another example of the clock punching mentality so common on the Bengals roster.

Consider, Miller feels Palmer was disrespected because the Bengals ignored most or all of Palmer's many suggestions, and as proof points a damning finger at the food being served to Bengal players. And then, as if he were trying to make my point for me, Miller freely admits the example he offers is trivial, if not borderline meaningless. And Miller further explains that the trivial quality of his complaint is....(wait for it)....exactly the point.

I agree. However, the conclusions I reach when considering the trivial nature of Miller's complaint is far different than the concusions/excuses Miller reached.

Point blank, Bengal players need to shut the hell up OR come up with a grievance that isn't trivial.

Or start drafting players that are only committed to all things non-trivial.

[membengal]

Last reply was to hoosier, for the record. Damn hard to post long from phone.

[HairOnFire]

But it's the changes in our game, and even in our culture, that make these things matter. Just because they didn't before doesn't mean they don't now. Mike Brown can argue SHOULD's and OUGHTA's all he wants. It's NOT going to change the fact that things have changed and continue to change. Keep up or get left behind. Logic doesn't always apply and perception IS usually reality.

Isn't it funny how quickly these types of rants boil down to the point where someone suggests logic no longer applies when dealing with player grievances?

And BTW, I say the perception is reality sword is a two-sided blade that cuts both ways. Because the perception of Bengal players is they're an easily distracted bunch who don't work very hard, and mostly just go through the motions, year after year, due to their unshakable belief that the Bengals can't win. And there's the proverbial rub, because when asked to explain why the Bengals can't win the most common response from those very same clock punching players is to point towards some trivial piece of bulls**t that they could very easily control or correct.

[cincyhokie]

And there's the proverbial rub, because when asked to explain why the Bengals can't win the most common response from those very same clock punching players is to point towards some trivial piece of bulls**t that they could very easily control or correct.

I don't necessarily think that's completely true that every greivence is valid but at the same time, many people seem to quickly dismiss every report we hear as "he's a stupid slacker, complainer, and doesn't know what he's talking about". So we can say the same about both sides.

Hell, I actually AGREE with Mike Brown and his principles....in principle. I just don't think his methods are the best at fostering a winning culture in 2011 and beyond. Therefore, I don't think that simply dismissing even a trivial complaint about the "food" is wise.

Maybe the BEST thing this management can do is CELEBRATE their stinginess. Make it their culture. Adopt it like the Steelers play tough defense and run the ball. Draft players who live simple and don't give a s**t. Advertise it as "hardnose" and "oldschool". Then sell it to the fans that way. I think it would work and I'm dead serious.

The problem is that there is no innovation or stepping outside the box when the things Mike Brown does don't work.

"They SHOULDA, OUGHTA, COULDA! That's THEIR problem!" passive....

[cincyhokie]

Yes. It is that unbelievable. I know it is your wet dream fantasy that palmer has been crusading on behalf of whodeyrevolution and disgruntled dinks for years, but it just makes no sense. None at all that back in 2006 palmer was demanding "changes" prior to signing one of the five richest deals in nfl history. For one thing, mike brown doesnt change. Nor does he bow to requests to change. And he certainly wouldnt pay $117 million AND grant changes. Not to a player. And not to one who, frankly, didnt have a lot of reason to ask for any changes at the time he signed the extension.

Look elsewhere, conspiracy theorist.

So I've begun to wonder whether or not Mike Brown and the Bengals front office promotes, or at least is upfront, with these perceived "shortcomings" with draft and FA prospects. Doesn't it seem silly that we keep drafting these guys that keep complaining about the food, towels, the weight room, and practice bubbles? You would think all that would come out in the interview process.

[Passepartout]

Well Vick just got a $100M six-year deal. Question is if he can play a full 16-game season? He hs only played it once.

[jjakq27]

"They SHOULDA, OUGHTA, COULDA! That's THEIR problem!" passive....

DIDN'T WON'T and DON'T.