THE CHANGES THREAD...Marvin to return

[HoosierCat]

Dude, it was one game.

Actually, the numbers are for the last two games.

You would think after 14 games this season that Palmer would finally come to play!

Those wins had nothing to do with Palmer coming to play. He played the same as he has all year. The change was the dramatically improved play of his receivers.

The fact of the matter is if there are little to no changes this off season, we'll see the same type of results next season.

You mean like the last two weeks' wins? I'm cool with that.

[HoosierCat]

In other words, the passing game was suddenly working not because the plan had changed, but rather because the execution by the top two targets had improved dramatically.

Absolutely. So can I assume your newly discovered insight

Wait a sec. There's nothing "newly discovered" here. I've been arguing all season long that the core of the problem is execution, not the plan (SSDY, remember?). I do have to admit I didn't expect to see my suspicions validated so dramatically, especially by replacing TO & Chad with Simpson & Caldwell, but there it is. The biggest concern I have is that it has in fact been such a dramatic change that I'm not convinced it isn't just a fluke. And unfortunately there's only one game left and it's against a D this team historically tries to avoid throwing against. It will be interesting to see if the passing numbers remain at their elevated levels or crash back to what's been the norm this year.

[combatbengal]

Dude, it was one game.

Actually, the numbers are for the last two games.

You would think after 14 games this season that Palmer would finally come to play!

Those wins had nothing to do with Palmer coming to play. He played the same as he has all year. The change was the dramatically improved play of his receivers.

The fact of the matter is if there are little to no changes this off season, we'll see the same type of results next season.

You mean like the last two weeks' wins? I'm cool with that.

Well you be cool with the wins at the end of the season and be ready for little to no changes. And as for Palmer playing like that all season, what games were you watching? How many time outs were wasted because he can't snap the ball in time? How many delay of game penalties did we get for the same reason? How many passes were thrown 10 feet about the receivers head? How many balls were thrown straight to defenders? How many balls were thrown in double and triple coverage? Now I'm not saying it was all Palmers fault but he wins two games and you think he's a super star again! Wow! You know, he had part of the summer, all of training camp and the season to get in synch with his receivers and it never happened! I hate Big Ben, but he served a four game suspension, and came in and played like he hadn’t missed a day! Why can’t our Heisman trophy QB do that? Why is it that he can’t lead and get his offense to do what they need to do?

Now, if the younger receivers were playing like this all season, why didn’t we get them into the game plan? It’s not like Chad was having a great season! Shipley was in a lot and open quite a bit too, but Palmer decided to try to thread it into TO (double and triple Coverage) all season long! All I’m saying is that these few wins are meaningless and will hurt us next season. In 2007, we went 7-9, won our last two games which resulted in no changes made in coaching or the way we do business. In 2008, we went 4-11-1 and won our last three games. Not many changes were made in 2009!

[HairOnFire]

In other words, the passing game was suddenly working not because the plan had changed, but rather because the execution by the top two targets had improved dramatically.

Absolutely. So can I assume your newly discovered insight

Wait a sec. There's nothing "newly discovered" here.

As I feared, you remain clueless to the end.

I've been arguing all season long that the core of the problem is execution, not the plan (SSDY, remember?).

And you've been wrong all season. Against Cleveland the Bengals ran the ball 40 times, more than in any game this season. Against San Diego they ran 36 times. That's 76 combined rushing attempts complimentedby just 44 combined passing attempts. In short, they flipped their "plan" and won both games as a result. Furthermore, the San Diego game makes a mockery of your execution rant since the Bengals ran more often in that game than in almost any other this season despite poor results. Nutshelled, they made the Chargers defend the run the entire game instead of abandoning the run and making things easier for the opposing defense. Last, in both games the Bengals ran more often on 1st and 2nd downs, used more Smashball formations, and totally abandoned their silly habit of using an empty backfield on short yardage situations.

I do have to admit I didn't expect to see my suspicions validated so dramatically, especially by replacing TO & Chad with Simpson & Caldwell, but there it is.

Please, you've been this boards biggest Chad apologist for years and you mocked those of us who pointed out how miserable Owens has been all season long on 3rd down. Furthermore, you've repeatedly defended Chad and Owens whenever the subject of dropped passes, passing efficiency, or rate of interception was discussed. According to you they were the only proven weapons this team had. Plus, where it up to you Caldwell would have remained buried on the roster and Simpson would be playing for another team. And finally, if all of the above weren't enough, and it is, I'm reminded of your earlier plea to fix the offense by throwing more to Gresham and Shipley. As it turnes out, both of those players have had their roles reduced in the last two games and the Bengals, and Carson Palmer in particular, have benefited.

The biggest concern I have is that it has in fact been such a dramatic change that I'm not convinced it isn't just a fluke.

Hilarious. In one breath you argue there's been no change at all and in the next you admit the changes are dramatic. As for the fluke angle, wasn't San Diego's defense ranked high enough for you? Didn't that team have enough to play for?

And unfortunately there's only one game left and it's against a D this team historically tries to avoid throwing against. It will be interesting to see if the passing numbers remain at their elevated levels or crash back to what's been the norm this year.

Who cares what the passing numbers are if the Bengals win? This isn't fantasy football and I'm solidly in favor of a return to the Smashball tactics that have allowed the Bengals to dominate Baltimore for years. Grinding football and winning ugly is a beautiful thing.

[Kazkal]

I am guessing ML won't be back. But as much as I am tired of him, I could live with him back as long as Brat, at a minimum, is gone. Bottom line, Brat must go.

Throw in Paul Alexander and I Agree I don't know whats wrong with this guy but Nate Livings must be sucking his **** to still be starting.

[HoosierCat]

Well you be cool with the wins at the end of the season and be ready for little to no changes.

What you seem to be missing is that fact that I'm not discussing making no changes, in fact I'm discussing the results of a change they just made and what the results of that change might mean for further changes.

[HoosierCat]

[Against Cleveland the Bengals ran the ball 40 times, more than in any game this season. Against San Diego they ran 36 times. That's 76 combined rushing attempts complimentedby just 44 combined passing attempts. In short, they flipped their "plan" and won both games as a result.

No, they didn't flip the plan, they executed it. The big increase in receptions to passes thrown meant they didn't have to throw as much, so they could stick with the run even when it wasn't working particularly well.

[HairOnFire]

[Against Cleveland the Bengals ran the ball 40 times, more than in any game this season. Against San Diego they ran 36 times. That's 76 combined rushing attempts complimentedby just 44 combined passing attempts. In short, they flipped their "plan" and won both games as a result.

No, they didn't flip the plan, they executed it. The big increase in receptions to passes thrown meant they didn't have to throw as much, so they could stick with the run even when it wasn't working particularly well.

Clueless to the bitter end.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that the only thing that might save you next season is if the Bengals fire your mentor, Builder Bob, and force you to adjust or abandon your silly narrative.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, when Bob Bratkowski goes before the foP at seasons end he'll defend his miserable performance using the very same excuses you've used all season long.

In fact, he may even plead for Alcoholic Amnesty.

[volcom69]

Dude, it was one game.

Actually, the numbers are for the last two games.

You would think after 14 games this season that Palmer would finally come to play!

Those wins had nothing to do with Palmer coming to play. He played the same as he has all year. The change was the dramatically improved play of his receivers.

The fact of the matter is if there are little to no changes this off season, we'll see the same type of results next season.

You mean like the last two weeks' wins? I'm cool with that.

Well you be cool with the wins at the end of the season and be ready for little to no changes. And as for Palmer playing like that all season, what games were you watching? How many time outs were wasted because he can't snap the ball in time? How many delay of game penalties did we get for the same reason? How many passes were thrown 10 feet about the receivers head? How many balls were thrown straight to defenders? How many balls were thrown in double and triple coverage? Now I'm not saying it was all Palmers fault but he wins two games and you think he's a super star again! Wow! You know, he had part of the summer, all of training camp and the season to get in synch with his receivers and it never happened! I hate Big Ben, but he served a four game suspension, and came in and played like he hadn’t missed a day! Why can’t our Heisman trophy QB do that? Why is it that he can’t lead and get his offense to do what they need to do?

Now, if the younger receivers were playing like this all season, why didn’t we get them into the game plan? It’s not like Chad was having a great season! Shipley was in a lot and open quite a bit too, but Palmer decided to try to thread it into TO (double and triple Coverage) all season long! All I’m saying is that these few wins are meaningless and will hurt us next season. In 2007, we went 7-9, won our last two games which resulted in no changes made in coaching or the way we do business. In 2008, we went 4-11-1 and won our last three games. Not many changes were made in 2009!

I dont care what people say im still going to blame Ochosucko, and TO for alot of the losses. I have seen alot of giving up during games this year from TO, i have seen Chad get frustrated because he is not getting the ball! I have not see these two Divas blocking for the running game! They have dropped so many balls, and quit on so many of there routes.

Carson all year tried to force the ball to these yo-yos just to make them happy, but if you ask me all they did was let Carson down!! There route running was horrible, the fact that Chad still wasnt on the same page with Carson after all these years is pathetic.

Look what happend with these two jokers out of the game, Brat actully went back to the game plan that helped them win last year, and guess what it produced wins. This team was built to run the ball, clock management, and keep the defense fresh. Even if the running game dosnt work, you keep pounding the ball, and the passing games open, and it showed the last couple weeks. Whats even better is that Carson and the young guys are on the same page for almost every pass. It looked like Carson was actully happy, a breath of fresh air, he was calm, and relaxed. So im not saying Carson is a super star again, but maybe he need some kind of change to get him going again, and maybe some youth helped him to get back to having fun again!!!

[COB]

Look what happend with these two jokers out of the game, Brat actully went back to the game plan that helped them win last year, and guess what it produced wins.

Totally agree. Bengals highest run total of the season? The San Diego game, when they beat a good team on a hot streak.

Coincidence? Only if you're white-hot love of the passing game has blinded you to reality.

[HoosierCat]

Look what happend with these two jokers out of the game, Brat actully went back to the game plan that helped them win last year, and guess what it produced wins.

Totally agree. Bengals highest run total of the season? The San Diego game, when they beat a good team on a hot streak.

Coincidence? Only if you're white-hot love of the passing game has blinded you to reality.

Doesn't have anything to do with the white hot love of anything, just the simple fact that the ability of a team to run is directly related to how efficient its passing game is. To take the SD game as an example, they generated 269 yards through the air with a total of 21 passes, complete and incomplete. In week 10 against the Colts, they also generated 269 yards passing, but it took them 42 passes -- twice as many -- to get the same number of yards.

You can't game plan results. A team might want to run 40 times and pass 20 times going in but if the first 5 passes go incomplete and the first 5 runs net 10 yards the plan will change. If Chad/TO had caught balls at the 70-80% rate Simpson/Caldwell have, you would have seen less passing. It would not have been necessary. Thats why when you see really efficient passing numbers like the Bengals have had the last couple weeks, the number of passes is almost always low, that 19-for-24 type of stuff. You don't see things like 45-for-50 or 40-for-45 too often because when you are completing a lot of throws you need to make fewer of them.

Bottom line: if Chad & TO had still been in the last two weeks, the Bengals would be 2-13. Even if they had still run as many times as they did.

[combatbengal]

Dude, it was one game.

Actually, the numbers are for the last two games.

You would think after 14 games this season that Palmer would finally come to play!

Those wins had nothing to do with Palmer coming to play. He played the same as he has all year. The change was the dramatically improved play of his receivers.

The fact of the matter is if there are little to no changes this off season, we'll see the same type of results next season.

You mean like the last two weeks' wins? I'm cool with that.

Well you be cool with the wins at the end of the season and be ready for little to no changes. And as for Palmer playing like that all season, what games were you watching? How many time outs were wasted because he can't snap the ball in time? How many delay of game penalties did we get for the same reason? How many passes were thrown 10 feet about the receivers head? How many balls were thrown straight to defenders? How many balls were thrown in double and triple coverage? Now I'm not saying it was all Palmers fault but he wins two games and you think he's a super star again! Wow! You know, he had part of the summer, all of training camp and the season to get in synch with his receivers and it never happened! I hate Big Ben, but he served a four game suspension, and came in and played like he hadn’t missed a day! Why can’t our Heisman trophy QB do that? Why is it that he can’t lead and get his offense to do what they need to do?

Now, if the younger receivers were playing like this all season, why didn’t we get them into the game plan? It’s not like Chad was having a great season! Shipley was in a lot and open quite a bit too, but Palmer decided to try to thread it into TO (double and triple Coverage) all season long! All I’m saying is that these few wins are meaningless and will hurt us next season. In 2007, we went 7-9, won our last two games which resulted in no changes made in coaching or the way we do business. In 2008, we went 4-11-1 and won our last three games. Not many changes were made in 2009!

I dont care what people say im still going to blame Ochosucko, and TO for alot of the losses. I have seen alot of giving up during games this year from TO, i have seen Chad get frustrated because he is not getting the ball! I have not see these two Divas blocking for the running game! They have dropped so many balls, and quit on so many of there routes.

Carson all year tried to force the ball to these yo-yos just to make them happy, but if you ask me all they did was let Carson down!! There route running was horrible, the fact that Chad still wasnt on the same page with Carson after all these years is pathetic.

Look what happend with these two jokers out of the game, Brat actully went back to the game plan that helped them win last year, and guess what it produced wins. This team was built to run the ball, clock management, and keep the defense fresh. Even if the running game dosnt work, you keep pounding the ball, and the passing games open, and it showed the last couple weeks. Whats even better is that Carson and the young guys are on the same page for almost every pass. It looked like Carson was actully happy, a breath of fresh air, he was calm, and relaxed. So im not saying Carson is a super star again, but maybe he need some kind of change to get him going again, and maybe some youth helped him to get back to having fun again!!!

I agree with you 100% on the two Diva's! TO gave up and dropped a great deal of balls. Chad didn't come to play this year. He was more concerned with Face book, Twitter and his acting career. Palmer should have looked past these two and got to ball to guys that wanted to play. Marvin and the coaches should have put guys in that wanted to win!

[volcom69]

Look what happend with these two jokers out of the game, Brat actully went back to the game plan that helped them win last year, and guess what it produced wins.

Totally agree. Bengals highest run total of the season? The San Diego game, when they beat a good team on a hot streak.

Coincidence? Only if you're white-hot love of the passing game has blinded you to reality.

Doesn't have anything to do with the white hot love of anything, just the simple fact that the ability of a team to run is directly related to how efficient its passing game is. To take the SD game as an example, they generated 269 yards through the air with a total of 21 passes, complete and incomplete. In week 10 against the Colts, they also generated 269 yards passing, but it took them 42 passes -- twice as many -- to get the same number of yards.

You can't game plan results. A team might want to run 40 times and pass 20 times going in but if the first 5 passes go incomplete and the first 5 runs net 10 yards the plan will change. If Chad/TO had caught balls at the 70-80% rate Simpson/Caldwell have, you would have seen less passing. It would not have been necessary. Thats why when you see really efficient passing numbers like the Bengals have had the last couple weeks, the number of passes is almost always low, that 19-for-24 type of stuff. You don't see things like 45-for-50 or 40-for-45 too often because when you are completing a lot of throws you need to make fewer of them.

Bottom line: if Chad & TO had still been in the last two weeks, the Bengals would be 2-13. Even if they had still run as many times as they did.

With Chad and TO in the game Brat would have never ran the ball like he did! I cant understand why Brat got away from the run earlier in the year, yea they were losing in those games, but the games were not out of reach. However Brat decided to throw the ball all over the place like they were losing by 30 points, i just dont get it.

They had the Bucs game won, but instead of running the clock out they decide to throw the ball into triple coverage....makes no sense to me. Its a proven fact when Benson or anyother running back touches the ball 25 times or more they almost always win the game under Marvin. I dont know if Brat thought because they brought in TO they need to throw the ball 45 times or what, or maybe it was Mike Brown or Marvin Lewis who thought this, but i think it shows it dosnt work. With them throwing the ball so much, it really exposed this defense for what it really was. With them being able to run the ball keeping the defense fresh they have looked much better. Im not coach, but i just feel they really got away from what they did best, they gave up on it too easy this year. Even when the running dosnt work, you can still wear down a defense, which will open up the passing game like it did against the Browns,and Chargers.

[HoosierCat]

With Chad and TO in the game Brat would have never ran the ball like he did!

I think Brat would have happily run the ball more if his top wideouts would have caught more balls and not constantly stuck the team in bad down-and-distance situations because they didn't run the right routes or failed to fight for the ball.

They had the Bucs game won, but instead of running the clock out they decide to throw the ball into triple coverage....makes no sense to me.

Quite true. OTOH they were in a close one late last week and decided to launch one at Simpson which went for a 59 yard score. If that had been picked off and started a Chargers rally that won them the game we'd be screaming about the call.

[HairOnFire]

Doesn't have anything to do with the white hot love of anything, just the simple fact that the ability of a team to run is directly related to how efficient its passing game is.

I'd say you're guilty of forcing the results to fit your preconceived opinions. I'll also point out that in your big and wordy post you never once mention how the game score often dictates when you can and can't run the football. To that end, in the last two games the Bengals ran the ball almost twice as often as they threw, regardless of results, and consistently led, often by more than one score. Furthermore, by running instead of throwing they consistently kept themselves in managable 3rd down situations. Finally, they abandoned their shotgun formation/empty backfield on 3rd down stupidity and forced defenses to honor the run even when they passed.

To take the SD game as an example....

Screw that. Compare both games against Cleveland. One that has the Bengals throwing on nearly every down, completing most of them, and getting whipped more soundly than the final score indicated. And the other game where they run the ball more often than in any other game this season, throw rarely and efficiently, and control the game from start to finish more completely than the final score indicated.

You can't game plan results.

Yes you can. At least as long as you stay committed to your gameplan. But abandon it at the first sign of trouble and all you do is allow the opposing team to dictate how you play. Do that, and you get what you deserve nearly every time. For example, a ten game losing streak barely softened by respectable passing stats.

Bottom line: if Chad & TO had still been in the last two weeks, the Bengals would be 2-13.

I'm pleased to see you got at least one thing right before the year ended.

Happy New Year.

[HoosierCat]

I'll also point out that in your big and wordy post you never once mention how the game score often dictates when you can and can't run the football.

Of course it does. But thats an argument you've rejected since the opener against the Pats, declining to acknowledge the score and insisting the plan was always to pass like crazy. So if I'm ignoring that point, consider that it's because I took your advice to heart.

To that end, in the last two games the Bengals ran the ball almost twice as often as they threw, regardless of results,

Well, this is where we have to part ways, because I would argue the results in the passing game are what allowed them to stick with the run heavy attack.

Screw that. Compare both games against Cleveland. One that has the Bengals throwing on nearly every down, completing most of them, and getting whipped more soundly than the final score indicated. And the other game where they run the ball more often than in any other game this season, throw rarely and efficiently, and control the game from start to finish more completely than the final score indicated.

I'm not sure exactly what games I am supposed to be comparing, but I would note that the the Bengals were about 5 yards a pass better in the Cleveland win versus the Cleveland loss. Clarify?

Yes you can. At least as long as you stay committed to your gameplan. But abandon it at the first sign of trouble and all you do is allow the opposing team to dictate how you play. Do that, and you get what you deserve nearly every time. For example, a ten game losing streak barely softened by respectable passing stats.

No one is saying it is. But what happens in a game will impact your plan. Didn't you just admit that by saying "the game score often dictates when you can and can't run the football"?

[COB]

Look what happend with these two jokers out of the game, Brat actully went back to the game plan that helped them win last year, and guess what it produced wins.

Totally agree. Bengals highest run total of the season? The San Diego game, when they beat a good team on a hot streak.

Coincidence? Only if you're white-hot love of the passing game has blinded you to reality.

Doesn't have anything to do with the white hot love of anything, just the simple fact that the ability of a team to run is directly related to how efficient its passing game is. To take the SD game as an example, they generated 269 yards through the air with a total of 21 passes, complete and incomplete. In week 10 against the Colts, they also generated 269 yards passing, but it took them 42 passes -- twice as many -- to get the same number of yards.

You can't game plan results. A team might want to run 40 times and pass 20 times going in but if the first 5 passes go incomplete and the first 5 runs net 10 yards the plan will change. If Chad/TO had caught balls at the 70-80% rate Simpson/Caldwell have, you would have seen less passing. It would not have been necessary. Thats why when you see really efficient passing numbers like the Bengals have had the last couple weeks, the number of passes is almost always low, that 19-for-24 type of stuff. You don't see things like 45-for-50 or 40-for-45 too often because when you are completing a lot of throws you need to make fewer of them.

Bottom line: if Chad & TO had still been in the last two weeks, the Bengals would be 2-13. Even if they had still run as many times as they did.

What you are saying is true in regards to Bratmoron. Everything builds off the pass. Brat's a retard.

As you have pointed out, the only way to get away from the pass (under Brat), and to run the ball a lot, is to pass successfully. The negative inference of this, and I bet a statistical analysis of Brat's playcalling would reinforce what you have said, is that if you come out failing at the pass, you must continue to keep passing! It's a Bratkowskian Catch-22.

Perfect for Chad and T.O.'s purposes. Their reasoning is probably just throw the ball to them constantly, they get a couple T.D.s, end up on Sportscenter proposing to a bag of popcorn or whatever. Unfortunately we lost games that way.

In summary, what you say is true, especially in regards to Brat. I just can't handle the truth.

I hope our next O.C. will establish a power running game which we'll always use to set up the pass, not the other way around.

[volcom69]

All i know is im happy when Carson only has to throw the ball 21 times, instead of 41

[BengalszoneBilly]

All i know is im happy when Carson only has to throw the ball 21 times, instead of 41

21 times, and the Bengals are in the game. 41 times and the team is in desperation mode. It's not rocket science.

[volcom69]

All i know is im happy when Carson only has to throw the ball 21 times, instead of 41

21 times, and the Bengals are in the game. 41 times and the team is in desperation mode. It's not rocket science.

Worst part is even when the bengals were still in the game this year Bengals were throwing it 41 times.....stupid coaching!

[Kazkal]

The only team I really see being in the same boat as the Bengals is the Jaguars,But I still think they'll get a new CBA done I just can't see players wanting to go unpaid for a entire season.

If they hold out until Sept they won't miss a single paycheck but there will be a lot of lost time for coaches to install a system

Well It seems that the Panthers are Cleaning house after sunday and already Stated Fox & all his assistants will be gone.

[jjakq27]

http://www.allproblo...l-hue-j-follow/

John Thornton speculates that Hue Jackson might return as OC if Mike Zimmer is the next head coach.

[HairOnFire]

I'll also point out that in your big and wordy post you never once mention how the game score often dictates when you can and can't run the football.

Of course it does. But thats an argument you've rejected since the opener against the Pats, declining to acknowledge the score and insisting the plan was always to pass like crazy.

I've never rejected THAT argument. Rather, I rejected the premise that the Bengals didn't fundamentaly change the way they way they lined up, the way they gameplanned, or the way the called plays. Three things that were obvious to me as early as the opener and only became more obvious with each passing game. (Pun intended)

Well, this is where we have to part ways, because I would argue the results in the passing game are what allowed them to stick with the run heavy attack.

That's a core Brat concept and I'm not a bit suprised you agree with it even though it flips football tradition on it's ear. Nor am I suprised that this belief is the basis for you rant about how there's nothing wrong with the plan, only the execution. Again, when called before the man to explain this seasons failure Bob Bratkowski will use the exact same excuses you offer here. And just as you do, he'll point to the Cleveland and San Diego games as proof that this team is close to solving it's problems. He'll argue for staying the course. He'll ask the man to ignore the history of wasted assets, unfairly ignored players, and mismanaged skills. He'll defend the year long strategy of gameplanning around two selfish divas and two unready rookies using the very same arguments you've offered all season long.

I'm not sure exactly what games I am supposed to be comparing, but I would note that the the Bengals were about 5 yards a pass better in the Cleveland win versus the Cleveland loss. Clarify?

That's what you note? Not the 180 yards of rushing yardage produced by Benson and Scott? Furthermore, the earlier Cleveland game was just one of many this season where the Bengals offense featured grossly unbalanced 1st half playcalling that favored the pass, but consistently failed on 3rd down and produced few points. Last, postgame comments from players of both teams confirmed Cleveland had gameplanned to stop the Bengals running game precisely because they didn't respect Cincy's passing attack, an opinion they didn't change even after Owens had topped 200 yards against them.

But what happens in a game will impact your plan. Didn't you just admit that by saying "the game score often dictates when you can and can't run the football"?

Of course the score sometimes dictates what you can and cannot do. So does the clock, right? But this season has prompted each of this teams most acclaimed proven players to openly criticize offensive schemes and gameplanning that by design allow an opposing defense to dictate offensive playcalling. The result is this team too often attacks defenses in exactly the same way those defenses prefer to be attacked using players who either aren't ready to handle the load placed upon them or other players who are mistake prone, undisciplined, and selfish. And under those circumstances why would anyone with a fully functioning brainpan expect the level of execution to be acceptable?

[HairOnFire]

What you [Hoosier] are saying is true in regards to Bratmoron. Everything builds off the pass. Brat's a retard.

And there it is.

The negative inference of this, and I bet a statistical analysis of Brat's playcalling would reinforce what you have said, is that if you come out failing at the pass, you must continue to keep passing! It's a Bratkowskian Catch-22.

I would have went with the movie "A Beautiful Mind".

Picture Bratkowski in some dusty garage where the walls, floor, and ceiling are covered with notes, diagrams, and charts, all connected by a series of hastily drawn lines, circles, and arrows. In the midst of the clutter stands out hero and his befuddled wife, Hoosier. She listens patiently as the mad genius mumbles...."If they roll coverage left we'll check down to Owens on a drag route. If they bring an extra player into the box we'll check down to a sideline route to Owens. If they shift to Cover3 we'll check down to a TE screen. If they show single coverage we'll give 'em Ocho on a go route. If they...."

The wife interrupts. "That's fine, but when do you run the ball?"

Our hero blinks a few times, removes his glasses, and then flashes a patient smile. "When all of the pass catchers are injured, of course."

[jjakq27]

http://cincinnati.co...t-lewis-future/

With the end of the season coming in two days in Baltimore and a meeting with Mike Brown happening either Monday or Tuesday, the subject of Marvin Lewis' future is foremost on everyone's minds.

With the future of the organization the number one topic, it's safe to ask how after eight years if Lewis and Brown can come to the same vision at that meeting

"I think things change over time. But I think the football team and the state of the football team is way different than it was in 2003," Lewis said. "You are at a starting over point. It's not different than when I came here. The only difference is this is a much different football team now than then. So things have changed, changed for the better. It's just a different scenario."

The big difference too is that Lewis is more sure about what the evolution of the organization needs to be.

"I'm sure about how things need to be now, I'm very sure, there's no question in my mind. But that's not anything major," Lewis said.

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Unless Mike caves, I think Marvin is going to walk away. He sounds like a man that knows exactly what he wants and needs.