Palmer

[ShulaSteakhouse]

He'll bounce back, always does, and it was the Ravens, but these episodes of playing scared and missing throws is aggravating as hell, because he does it so relatively often. Once again it's as if he needs everything to go perfectly right for him to sustain a drive with his arm when needed. Can't have that if they want to beat good teams in the playoffs, or even get there.

[BengalsMan3203]

Palmer went up against one of the best front 7's today in the league.... Even if there isn't pressure you are still going to think about it... A win is a win....

Palmer went 34 for 50 for 345 yards last week... It's still there and he would of done alot better against other teams...

[ArmyBengal]

To start, I saw Carson make some pretty bad plays today even though he had time.

There were at least 2 or 3 balls that probably should have been intercepted.

I wish to hell he would see the dumpoff to Benson and Scott. That was missed numerous times today.

That being said, Volcom is the only one I saw make a comment about the WR's. Chad missed at least 3 balls that hit him in the hands and at least 2 of those were for 1st downs that resulted in the Bengals punting. T.O. missed at least two balls and one for a TD. With those catches, Carson has over 200 yards passing and at least one TD pass on a bad day of passing.

Once again, I'm not giving him a pass, only trying to acknowledge there was more than him.

[membengal]

I will say, that one pass to CJ over the middle was money, CJ had a step, and that play might have gone for a 70-yard TD, but for...CJ simply dropping it.

[gregstephens]

I was at the game, probably the only one I'll do this year. The correct answer to everyone here is...yes.

Palmer looked very skittish...again. He wasn't significantly rushed for the majority of the day, yet there were times he'd get all 'Happy Feet' for no apparent reason. At least half of his throws were off and he was lucky he didn't give up the two picks. Overthrowing a wide open Fredo in the endzone in the second quarter to his left baffled me.

Ocho and TO missed crucial balls. Ocho had a couple of stupid penalties. There was a point in the third quarter after another futile series you could see Palmer and Fredo on the sidelines on the Jumbotron looking frustrated as everything. I honestly thought the wheels were coming off for good at that point.

The predictable play calling has pissed me off since 2006. The lack of any constant attempts to stretch the field in the pass game has as well.

All of that said, yes, a win is a win. The defense won that game. The offense as a unit looked terrible. I'm giving Palmer time to settle into the season and produce. However, if he is playing in week eight and nine like he did in week two, we should start conceding it's time to think about the next QB of the future.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Palmer missed alot of passes today, he also missed alot of open targets trying to force the ball to a deeper option. He needs to be reminded that a 5 yard completion is better than a 20 yard incompletion/tipped pass.

I get hoarse yelling about open dump off targets every Bengals game. It is time to start using Gresham, Benson, Scott and Shipley much more often on short dump routes. I would also like to see Brat try to stretch the field a few more times next week.

Let the record show that RBB and I agree on something.

World to end shortly...

We found the exception that proves he rule!

[skyline]

Palmer looked very skittish...again. He wasn't significantly rushed for the majority of the day, yet there were times he'd get all 'Happy Feet' for no apparent reason. At least half of his throws were off and he was lucky he didn't give up the two picks. Overthrowing a wide open Fredo in the endzone in the second quarter to his left baffled me.

I can understand being skittish against the Baltimore defense. When you've been in the pocket for a few seconds, you've got to assume someone is about to drop your butt and that internal clock tells you to get rid of the ball...the sooner the better.

I don't understand why everyone keeps harping on missing Chad in the endzone. Carson addressed that pass specifically in his post-game news conference. That part of the play wasn't designed, and Carson said he couldn't see Chad clearly due to defenders in between them. He put it back there in Chad's general direction and hoped for the best. Yes, it very easily could have been 7 points, but it didn't work out in this case. Things are a lot easier to see from an aerial view than they are when you're actually on the field. Time to move on.

No, Carson wasn't as sharp in this game as he could have been, but it's not time to throw him into the trash heap (this isn't in response to your post, Instigator, but others who seem to be done with him). I'd say he looked pretty good last week once they got rolling, and here's hoping that's the sort of passing game we see in the future.

[TJJackson]

I will say, that one pass to CJ over the middle was money, CJ had a step, and that play might have gone for a 70-yard TD, but for...CJ simply dropping it.

Ocho Droppo

[derekshank]

This is a great thread for JoePong to do his "end the Palmer experiment" rant. The fact that he's nowhere to be found after a Bengal win furthers my suspicion that he is a troll.

If I had to put money down, I'd say he's not a troll... but his habit of gloating after a loss and absence after a win is quite tiresome.

[membengal]

This is a great thread for JoePong to do his "end the Palmer experiment" rant. The fact that he's nowhere to be found after a Bengal win furthers my suspicion that he is a troll.

If I had to put money down, I'd say he's not a troll... but his habit of gloating after a loss and absence after a win is quite tiresome.

Seems to me you have rather concisely defined what a troll is there, derek. And therefore, he's a troll.

[Wraith]

What Carson is not!

Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Joe Montana.

What Carson is!

A competent NFL QB capable of winning games with his arm.

[gregstephens]

Palmer looked very skittish...again. He wasn't significantly rushed for the majority of the day, yet there were times he'd get all 'Happy Feet' for no apparent reason. At least half of his throws were off and he was lucky he didn't give up the two picks. Overthrowing a wide open Fredo in the endzone in the second quarter to his left baffled me.

I can understand being skittish against the Baltimore defense. When you've been in the pocket for a few seconds, you've got to assume someone is about to drop your butt and that internal clock tells you to get rid of the ball...the sooner the better.

I don't understand why everyone keeps harping on missing Chad in the endzone. Carson addressed that pass specifically in his post-game news conference. That part of the play wasn't designed, and Carson said he couldn't see Chad clearly due to defenders in between them. He put it back there in Chad's general direction and hoped for the best. Yes, it very easily could have been 7 points, but it didn't work out in this case. Things are a lot easier to see from an aerial view than they are when you're actually on the field. Time to move on.

No, Carson wasn't as sharp in this game as he could have been, but it's not time to throw him into the trash heap (this isn't in response to your post, Instigator, but others who seem to be done with him). I'd say he looked pretty good last week once they got rolling, and here's hoping that's the sort of passing game we see in the future.

With the possible exception of Favre, name me an elite quarterback that blindly throws in someone's 'general direction', not being able to see them, and hopes for the best? Especially in the redzone?

[ArmyBengal]

Like I said before, I wasn't enamored with Carson's day as a whole, but not pissed off either.

If Chad and T.O. don't drop passes that hit them smack in the hands, Carson has over 200 yards passing and a TD against the Ravens.

I don't think anyone would be complaining about that. It's simply not all on him.

I also agree with how different things look on the field as opposed to the viewer.

[HairOnFire]

I think that Palmer spends too many plays trying to win the game all at once. Gannon pointed out a perfect example in today's game: Palmer took the snap and rolled right. TO is running along with him about 8 yards downfield. He's got a couple steps on the defender and if Palmer just tosses the ball to Owens it probably ends as a 10-15 yard pickup. But Palmer keeps looking downfield and looking downfield and looking downfield, and there's nothing. By the time he pitches it to TO, Owens is already out of bounds.

Let me now make an open request to anyone who recorded the game. Specifically, please rewatch this play and report your findings in regards to the above....especially the part shown in bold. If possible, confirm my observation that Chad was actually wide f**king open, both early and late on this play. Pay no attention to Owens in the foreground. Focus on the background action. Because if I'm not mistaken the endzone view starts with a more distant Chad running uncovered through zone coverage, then shows him cut towards, but well behind, the Ravens bracketed coverage.

In short, I believe Chad was actually open from start to finish on this play, but Palmer doesn't pull the trigger....choosing instead to checkdown too late to a crossing Owens.

[membengal]

I saw it too. He was open early, but maybe not late because a LB dropped back. But it was defintely there early.

Course, maybe at that point Carson figured CJ wouldn't catch it. I still am pissed over CJ's drop of what may have been a 70-yard TD on a crossing route. Then again, I have memories of CJ dropping those in the past too.

[Jet23]

Let me get this straight..............what?

I'd offer a translation were I not so certain you'd ignore the entirety of it.

Here's an idea. Stop flipping through the thesaurus during the game and pay attention to what is actually taking place on the field. I spend a good portion of my day reading endless contracts, yet most of them make my head hurt far less than your typical post.

[cincyhokie]

Go back and look at some of the games when Palmer completely looked comfortable and was highly effective. Games last year such as San Diego and Chicago, and any other game since he got to Cincinnati.

Palmer plays better in up-tempo, no huddle style offense play. It's very easy to isolate on mechanics from play to play. Does Palmer miss throws? Yes. Can he look rattled at times? Yes.

Give the man a no huddle formation or AT LEAST up the tempo for the offense...and I GUARANTEE that he will produce. In fact, take note the next time this team goes into the no-huddle and see what Palmer looks like.

The man CAN'T maximize his potential in this style of offense. It is what it is. This is a primarily run controlled clock controlled offense. It's not Palmer's strength. He needs to get a rythym. Can't do that with the ball control style of play.

[Stripes]

Here's an idea. Stop flipping through the thesaurus during the game and pay attention to what is actually taking place on the field.

I'm curious. What would you estimate to be, from your perspective well outside my reality, the probability that I have ever flipped through a thesaurus during a Bengals football game?

I spend a good portion of my day reading endless contracts, yet most of them make my head hurt far less than your typical post.

Rest assured I don't much care that your head hurts or even that I may have been a contributing cause.

[HairOnFire]

I saw it too. He was open early, but maybe not late because a LB dropped back. But it was defintely there early.

Damn right. And the view clearly shows Palmer looking right at Chad early, but no throw. Then immediately after Chad makes his break to the sideline, well behind coverage IMHO, Palmers head and gaze shift to his next progression, the checkdown to Owens. And again, no throw...at least not until it was far too late.

Course, maybe at that point Carson figured CJ wouldn't catch it.

It's just one play so I won't make too much out of it, but FWIW this is the type of stuff that I think belongs in the "What's wrong with Palmer?" threads. Not a bunch of crap about his arm being shot or his mind being too focused on the pass rush.

As for Chad's play, I counted three drops, a ridiculous amount of lost yardage, and at least one blown scoring opportunity. Possibly two. In other words, more than enough blown production for the BSOPB to point to as a reason for throwing more, not less.

points/laughs

[membengal]

Actually, as a BSOPB charter member, I thought they struck the right balance between passing and running, and their inability to complete passes that should have been completed was highly irritating. That offense should have generated, easily, 14 more points and another 100 or so total yards, which it would have, if Chad could catch balls thrown his way. I am still salt over him once again dropping a ball on a crossing route where he had a step and the whole field open to him.

Which is to say, they need to be better when they drop back and pass, which would only help open up the running game. The last thing I want is an extra 15 passes aimed of varying degrees of success at a receiver like CJ who is still dropping too damn many balls, 10 years into his career.

[HoosierCat]

In other words, more than enough blown production for the BSOPB to point to as a reason for throwing more, not less.

I would like to see both more and less. Yesterday, 20 of Palmer's 35 passes were targeted to TO or 85. Only 6 were caught. On the other hand, Shipley and Gresham were targeted 11 times and caught 8 balls. They averaged less per catch, about 7 yards per versus 16 for TO/Chad, but I think the Bengals do a better job of moving the chains and sustaining drives if that targeting is flipped.

[HairOnFire]

Actually, as a BSOPB charter member, I thought they struck the right balance between passing and running, and their inability to complete passes that should have been completed was highly irritating.

Isn't an inability to complete passes that should be completed reason enough to conclude this teams passing game isn't a foundation that can be built upon? That a supporting/complimentary/minor/smaller role is about all it can handle until some time in the hopefully near future when the passing game can actually function without s**tting on itself?

That offense should have generated, easily, 14 more points and another 100 or so total yards, which it would have, if Chad could catch balls thrown his way.

So 14 points and 100 yards of production blown on plays that you concede should have been made easily. Plus more of the same from the other sidekick on the opposite side, right? And let's not forget how often the whole bunch can't manage to get a pass play off without committing a pre-snap penalty. And despite all of this, and much more, you actually admit to being a charter member of the BSOPB?

Why?

And please tell me it isn't because of the catchy nickname.

[membengal]

1. I don't see a 50/50 balance as being a foundation issue hair. If they were trying to throw it 50 times with only 15 runs, I am right there with you. But that's not what they appear to be about.

2. They simply have to be an effective passing team to get where they want to be. You and I may not agree on that, but that is where I come from. But that means, for my part, they are effective when they do drop back and pass with success at a higher rate than they are currently doing. Completion percentage is key here, and Carson and the Bengals need to get theirs up.

3. I don't think the passing game will get to that effectiveness unless they actually try to, um, complete some passes. I think some things can't be totally worked out in practice. I think if they continue to mix up pass and run, and the passing game does what it is supposed to and should, the running game will benefit.

I simply think there is a limit to how far this team can get with its jumbo package and obvious line plunges. And I think ML agrees, or this team does not make the moves it made to address the passing game. But having addressed the passing game, there is no reason for them to go all Mike Martz on the league. They need to be better when they do choose to pass. And that is on Carson, CJ, Owens, Brat and the line along with the other receivers.

[HairOnFire]

I would like to see both more and less.

How positively Pongian that is.

Yesterday, 20 of Palmer's 35 passes were targeted to TO or 85. Only 6 were caught.

A fact that not only supports my rant, but should put an end to the debate once and for all. But sadly, I remind myself that this is the internet where things like that never really happen.

On the other hand, Shipley and Gresham were targeted 11 times and caught 8 balls. They averaged less per catch, about 7 yards per versus 16 for TO/Chad, but I think the Bengals do a better job of moving the chains and sustaining drives if that targeting is flipped.

See.

[Stripes]

1. I don't see a 50/50 balance as being a foundation issue hair. If they were trying to throw it 50 times with only 15 runs, I am right there with you. But that's not what they appear to be about.

Agreed. The philosophy has changed to account for the Bengals current roster (as it was changed midway through the 2008 season). The change isn't a drastic one, with one of the league's most determined running teams from 2009 becoming one of the league's most determined passing teams from 2010. A one-dimensional team is trying to become two-dimensional, that's all.

Balance obviously means the Bengals will throw more than they did last season. Balance does not mean they have completely shed their identity as AFC North bullies (something which should be plainly clear after Sunday's game). The problem isn't the philosophy, it's the execution (through all of two football games). If the Bengals fail to execute consistently in the coming weeks, then I'll be ready to clamor for a total return to 2009's offense.