Whats wrong with the Defense?

[walzav29]

I just have a hard time believing that with the same coordinator and the young guys growing up that they got worse. I don't get it.

[TJJackson]

I'm not panicking after one game

Yeah, they got pushed around, and we lost

But

--they lost to a team that has been good for a long time, with a first ballot hall of fame QB, on the road.

--ugly as it was, the D only gave up 24 points (and yeah, I am fully aware that NE was playing more to kill the clock in the second half)

--they had no penalties

--some young guys (like Geno) got significant playing time, which will benefit us in the long haul

--i think this game may have finally fully exposed Dhani (who had more reps than any other defender) to the point that maybe they'll finally start to work Rey in more and Dhani slowly out of the picture

Dont get me wrong - I'd still rather have had the W, but there are a few flowers among the weeds here

[skyline]

It's only been one game. Maybe we should give it some time before we declare it officially broken.

This isn't the first time a good team/defense has been blown out. These things happen.

[derekshank]

They aren't as bad as they looked against NE. They had bad games last year too.

But I also maintain they aren't the 4th best defense in the NFL. At times last year they played like they were elite... but weren't consistent week in and week out. They often relied on an offense that grinded out multiple 7+ minute drives to keep them well rested and the opposing offense rusty.

They are a good defense... just not an elite one. Elite defenses don't rank 25th in the NFL on any given week, whether they play Tom Brady or not.

[Whur CHad At?]

Theres nothing wrong with this defense, yet. We have a lot of tough tests this year to really see if last year was a fluke, which I don't believe to be the case.

Last Sunday was just a BAD day. They just didn't show up. It happens. Hopefully we can work the kinks out. Hopefully they will forget about that stupid idea of putting MJ at LB. That is just a awful idea, he needs to have a his hand down rushing the passer.

The secondary needs to get their asses handed to them in practice this week. They are better than they looked last week.

And I don't know if I was the only one who thinks this, but I don't like Crocker and Roy Williams on the field at the same time. I think it just leaves Hall and JJ out to dry and needs to be fixed. Reggie Nelson isn't a cover guy. We need to address this.

[HairOnFire]

I just have a hard time believing that with the same coordinator and the young guys growing up that they got worse.

IMHO Marvin Lewis is a good coach who just had his ass handed to him by a great coach who spents months crafting a vastly superior gameplan. What that means in the big picture is anyones guess, because it is just one game, and it's hard to say if the lessons learned were a blip on the radar or the first signs of something bigger. But if one games observation is worth anything then I'm pointing first at the lack of pass rush, followed immediately by further pointing at the potential upgrades already on the roster.

[TJJackson]

potential upgrades already on the roster.

like Geno?

[Whur CHad At?]

potential upgrades already on the roster.

like Geno?

or Dunlap, or even Frostee. You gotta admit he has gotten a lot better.

[Stripes]

No secondary can make up for a pass rush that pathetic. I think they'll be okay, especially against the run. If MJ, Dunlap, and Geno can get involved I think it'll be a good thing too.

[volcom69]

I think Zim said it best, when he said he gave the defense to much to think about. So instead of reacting, they were over thinking. He said he is going to make it easy this week, so maybe instead of thinking, they will just react and go after the football. They need to play fast, and physical

Im still not sure how he is going to fix the pass rush, i just hope he tries some of the young guys. Also get Frostee in there he is better then Geathers or Odom at this point. They just need to play more physical, thats how they played last year!

[HoosierCat]

IMHO, the two main problems on defense Sunday were:

Our LBs can't cover. Or at least, they can't cover Wes Welker. Brady didn't go deep very often, he did all his damage in the short passing game, and especially with short tosses to Welker. Wes ate our LB corps alive. We needed to glue a CB to him all day and for Gawd knows what reason Zimmer didn't.

D-line couldn't generate any pressure. Odom is junk right now, none of the DTs except, briefly, Atkins could break through, Dunlap was stuck on the bench. Zim has to mix it up on the line or get more creative with stunts and blitzes.

[membengal]

Hall, Joseph, Adam Jones, Trent. Four corners, of varying quality, and god knows any of the four a better option on Welker than Dhani Jones. I am still befuddled by a scheme that ever left a chance that Dhani Jones would be in man coverage on Wes Welker. And, yet...they did.

I cannot underscore enough how much I agree with Hair and others that Lewis and his coaching staff got pantsed and given swirlies by the Pats coaches. And it still pisses me off. I hope it did them too. They should have been professionally embarrassed.

[HairOnFire]

I cannot underscore enough how much I agree with Hair and others that Lewis and his coaching staff got pantsed and given swirlies by the Pats coaches. And it still pisses me off. I hope it did them too. They should have been professionally embarrassed.

I just read about Zimmer throwing himself upon his own sword by saying he deserves all of the blame for his units poor showing.

He won't get any argument from me.

[jjakq27]

I think Zim said it best, when he said he gave the defense to much to think about. So instead of reacting, they were over thinking. He said he is going to make it easy this week, so maybe instead of thinking, they will just react and go after the football. They need to play fast, and physical

Im still not sure how he is going to fix the pass rush, i just hope he tries some of the young guys. Also get Frostee in there he is better then Geathers or Odom at this point. They just need to play more physical, thats how they played last year!

Zim's complete comments.

http://cincinnati.co...ame-for-week-1/

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Good on Zimmer. I'd like to hear the interview, not sure how to interpret the "I thought I had the '85 Bears" comment (aside from the straightforward fact that they are not, in fact, the '85 Bears). Certainly one interpretation is that his players didn't play up to the expectations set for them, so he's dumbing things down.

I like that he's simplifying schemes. Though as mentioned, the important part is in hiding weaknesses, like the fact that Dhani Jones has (as feared) grown his Tory James legs and appears to be running in cement. I like the guy, he gave us a couple solid years, but I see a lot more Travel Channel in his future.

[volcom69]

Good on Zimmer. I'd like to hear the interview, not sure how to interpret the "I thought I had the '85 Bears" comment (aside from the straightforward fact that they are not, in fact, the '85 Bears). Certainly one interpretation is that his players didn't play up to the expectations set for them, so he's dumbing things down.

I like that he's simplifying schemes. Though as mentioned, the important part is in hiding weaknesses, like the fact that Dhani Jones has (as feared) grown his Tory James legs and appears to be running in cement. I like the guy, he gave us a couple solid years, but I see a lot more Travel Channel in his future.

I dont think Dhani will be leaving the middle anytime soon, Zim seems to really love Jones in the middle. Once again he led this team in tackles, and i too like Jones but he can not cover. He really needs to come out on nickle packages and let Brandon Johnson play, he is the best cover LB they have. Also let MJ get in there and play more, he the fastest/probably best pass rusher they have and i hope Zim finds a way to use him more.

Also read that Fanene might miss sometime, so as much as i hate that i hope to see Dunlap get some chances to play. I hope Zim looks at the film and makes some changes!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I dont think Dhani will be leaving the middle anytime soon, Zim seems to really love Jones in the middle

Agreed. The challenge comes in hiding Jones' weaknesses. Problem is, you can bet that every team they face will be trying to run the underneath routes to isolate Dhani in pass coverage on non-nickel doowns. And if I recall, the Ravens have 3 receivers who do the underneath thing pretty well.

[HairOnFire]

Good on Zimmer. I'd like to hear the interview, not sure how to interpret the "I thought I had the '85 Bears" comment (aside from the straightforward fact that they are not, in fact, the '85 Bears). Certainly one interpretation is that his players didn't play up to the expectations set for them, so he's dumbing things down.

I thought his remarks about not playing his starters enough during preseason was important....and it was later echoed by Phil Simms on Inside the NFL. Nutshelled, Sims claims the preseason doesn't tell you much of anything about the teams themselves, but those teams who mostly rested their starters during preseason paid a very heavy price on opening day. By comparison, teams who used their starters more often, especially those who demanded starters play extensive snaps in the final week, were greatly rewarded. And yeah, New England was one of the teams Sims singled out for praise.

Getting back to the Bengals, Zimmer now admits he babied his starters in preseason...trusting them to turn it on as soon as the season started. Didn't happen. And that's what pisses me off the most. We just slagged our way through the longest preseason schedule possible yet none of this teams units was ready to play when the whistle blew.

Watch for changes next year.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I dont think Dhani will be leaving the middle anytime soon, Zim seems to really love Jones in the middle

Agreed. The challenge comes in hiding Jones' weaknesses. Problem is, you can bet that every team they face will be trying to run the underneath routes to isolate Dhani in pass coverage on non-nickel doowns. And if I recall, the Ravens have 3 receivers who do the underneath thing pretty well.

The Ravens have 5 players that fit that spot well, dont forget about Rice or Heap, they are very good pass catchers.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I thought I'd revisit this thread after todays stellar effort by Zimmers unit. The big difference I saw was pressure on the QB which resulted in four interceptions which proved to be the difference in the game. It was nothing like last week watching Brady basically camping out in the pocket with time to roast marshmallows. Also the run defense wasn't shabby either, especially against one of the league's best in Ray Rice. I just hope they can hold down the fort until the offense gets it's act together.

[ArmyBengal]

While I would like to see MORE pressure than what we got in the Ravens game, I won't be complaining.

Yet another reason not to get to worked up about what you see in week #1.

Oh yeah, the Pats got handled by the Jets yesterday as well...

Wasn't everyone ready to hand the Lombardi to the Pats last week ??

[Wraith]

While I would like to see MORE pressure than what we got in the Ravens game, I won't be complaining.

Yet another reason not to get to worked up about what you see in week #1.

Oh yeah, the Pats got handled by the Jets yesterday as well...

Wasn't everyone ready to hand the Lombardi to the Pats last week ??

Yes and I am still ready.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not, the Pats looked like garbage yesterday and minus Moss' amazing one handed grab, that game wouldn't have even been that close.

That beatdown came at the hands of the Jets that were mauled by the Ravens last week.

Color me unconcerned.

What was it Brady said yesterday in the conference ??

Oh yeah, "WE SUCK"...

[membengal]

Whatever Zim did, good on him. As horrified by their effort in Week 1 as I was, is as pleasantly surprised as I was by what they did yesterday.

Restores my hope in this season being one that can end in the playoffs.

[volcom69]

I was happy with how the team tackled, and how fast they played. Im still concerned with the pass rush, would like to see more sacks, and a faster rush. Im really thinking that some how Brandon Johnson needs to start at LB or play alot more then he does. He is so fast when he is in there, and he played like he should be the starter.