Official Episode #1 Thread

[Ickey44]

Lipp:JD open up a minute,Hi

Lipp:were Putting you on waivers today,which means you did not make the team (at this point the guy is still trying to wake up)

Lipp:The way this works is you 24 hours for teams to claim your contract

JD:Did they say why?

Lipp:It always comes down to numbers it's a ability thing

Lipp:The only reason we cut players is ability,No other reason <Ouch>

JD:Wow (Sits down)

Lipp:Are you flying back to phoenix

(couldn't hear JD's response)

-------------------------Now Lipp shuts the door--------------------------

Lipp:Hold on guys just a second

Lipp:Their will be a van out here,that will taking you to the airport at 7:00

Lipp:we need your special teams Notebook & playbook

-------------------------Lipp walks out-----------------------------------------

Comments to crew after the matter

Lipp:once I told him what was going on he was upset,this was never easy because you see how he and others react .

Lipp:And ahh we tell some body the best way do it is be direct with em,It's best to give them to make another team,He probably doesn't realize it right now...SO WHY DON"T YOU TELL HIM THAT

It's one thing doing it at 5:30 am but it's how he went about it that was less then a 3minute span....Seemed classless compared to how other teams did it on hardknocks...

That is pretty s**tty. What a dick.

[jonahdsage]

I thought mikey looked both tired and ridiculous most of the time -- I can't believe they think he belongs in front of the team. Lippincott was much the same. Did Runnels REALLY need to be out of camp by 7am? Right when everyone else is waking up? How about knocking on his door and saying "J.D. -- I need you to wake up and come downstairs to talk for a few minutes." He was woke up, had the lights turned on him, told he was cut because he wasn't good enough, he had 24 hours to be claimed by another team, needed to turn in his two play books, and that he had a flight to leave for in two hours all within the first minute of being awake. That's just ridiculous to me. Of everything in that episode this scene was by far the worst depiction of the bengals.

Maybe this is just how teams do it, maybe they get them out the door so they have the most time to talk to other teams. I don't know enough about it. But you can be direct with a grown man without giving him a bullet list of why he's not good enough and what he needs to go at 5am and one minute after waking him up.

[COB]

Lipp:It always comes down to numbers it's a ability thing

Lipp:The only reason we cut players is ability,No other reason <Ouch>

Pretty contradictory. Does it always come down to numbers? Or is ability the only reason they cut people?

Lippincott was probably pretty nervous, probably doing one of his least favorite tasks and he's doing it in front of lights and a camera. He doesn't come off as the most sophisiticated guy, so I hope that was why it all came off so unprofessional, rushed, and callous.

Because if this is just the way he always does it, like I said before, off to charm school, with a side of Jenny Craig.

[Bearcat1975]

That is pretty s**tty. What a dick.

Don't you know why Lippypoo even has a job with the Bengals in the first place?

The guy basically has no soul, so he certainly has no heart. And he looks like a f'n out of shape duck.

He is another one that if he had a heart attack, I would laugh at his funeral.

[volcom69]

I think this whole Hardknocks thing is a joke anyways. Everyone else thought this team was a joke, well i guess now it just proves to them they are. This whole thing didnt do this team any justice, and once again it just proves what a joke M. Brown is and the rest of the family.

[Kazkal]

I think this whole Hardknocks thing is a joke anyways. Everyone else thought this team was a joke, well i guess now it just proves to them they are. This whole thing didnt do this team any justice, and once again it just proves what a joke M. Brown is and the rest of the family.

Have you even watched it yet? I enjoyed the show sure I wanted to bang my head in to the wall at times...But as awhole I enjoyed it and look forward next week as they get to more flashy positions...Rey Cracking heads Carson throwing bombs etc etc

[BengalByTheBay]

-------------------------Now Lipp shuts the door--------------------------

Lipp:Hold on guys just a second

Lipp:Their will be a van out here,that will taking you to the airport at 7:00

Lipp:we need your special teams Notebook & playbook

-------------------------Lipp walks out-----------------------------------------

Comments to crew after the matter

Lipp:once I told him what was going on he was upset,this was never easy because you see how he and others react .

Lipp:And ahh we tell some body the best way do it is be direct with em,It's best to give them to make another team,He probably doesn't realize it right now...SO WHY DON"T YOU TELL HIM THAT

This is going to come off like I'm making excuses, but did you consider that the closed door scene may have been pretty substantially edited? The entire show was heavily edited and over-produced (complete with ample use of Michael Mann slow-mo, etc.). Yes, the man is a disgusting blob who doesn't exactly light up a room. I am guessing, however, that he's played that particular scene out a lot in his life. It seemed to me like he got that it wasn't being received well, asked for a couple of minutes without the camera and it was quite boring so it was cut out. Maybe I'm wrong, but after seeing the whole scene myself, it's questionable in my mind that he well might have had a few minutes of "pep talk" that we just didn't see.

Overall, I thought the show was interesting. By virtue of what they edited the show down to, it's clear they're looking for some stories about guys who are not going to make the team (Runnels, Parrish), to add drama. Obviously, they're spending time with 8'oh because they gotta do that. I'm surprised there wasn't more focus on core guys, but they may be developing that as it goes on. Biggest surprise though is spending any camera time on Mike Brown. Damn, that guy sucks the energy right out of a room -- it reminds me of meetings at my work.

[HairOnFire]

Not much to add.

The entire Bengal front office came off about as badly as all of us would have guessed....

Can somebody PM the mods, Hair's account has been hacked.

I wouldn't have expected this comment from him either.

Perhaps you guys are suprised because you haven't been listening.

Most of the Mike Brown haters spin flights of fantasy about an evil overlord obsessed with extracting every penny from an already dying rustbelt metropolis. In fact, during any discussion of anything Bengal you can almost hear angry Bengal fans repeating Mike Brown's whizzened cry of "Release the flying monkey's! Let them feed on the bones of the unworthy minions."

Frankly, that's all a bunch of crap, and I think most of you know it....even when you're writing it. So it's hardly any wonder if I don't always play along.

But one thing that may not be crap is something I've written about several times, but is always ignored by the more dedicated and demanding Mike Brown hater. That being, there's simply too many old and unlikable people in the Bengals front office. In fact, even the so-called youngsters (Katie and Troy) seem weighed down by their Bengal experiences. Perhaps that's why they always portray their jobs as a crushing burden instead of a wonderful rich inheritence that few people think they deserve.

Granted, the above old fugger rant is not as sexy as the evil overlord scenario so popular in thse parts but I think it's more intellectually honest to state the obvious without all of the evil overlord trappings. And that leaves me with....the Brown family simply isn't likable, and as a result few people want to do anything for them, let alone the types of extraordinary things that are often needed to become a champion.

[Baraka]

right on the money, hair. i don't believe the two things are mutually exclusive though. most of the hate is directly related to the fact that people don't want to go above and beyond for ultimate success (super bowl victories in this case), including the coaching staff and players, especially if they don't feel they're being treated well, and that's where the brown families miserly ways come in to play.

[HoosierCat]

And while Pumpkie's remarks about Smith's holdout were embarrassing, they came nowhere close to the horror that is Jim Lippincott in short pants. For those who missed it, Lippy is best described as a human freak show whose body shape seems to make no sense whatsoever until you imagine it in it's natural state, sitting motionless in a chair for hours and hours.

No doubt. Lippy was by far the most horrifying thing in the show.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Perhaps you guys are suprised because you haven't been listening.

Most of the Mike Brown haters spin flights of fantasy about an evil overlord obsessed with extracting every penny from an already dying rustbelt metropolis. In fact, during any discussion of anything Bengal you can almost hear angry Bengal fans repeating Mike Brown's whizzened cry of "Release the flying monkey's! Let them feed on the bones of the unworthy minions."

Frankly, that's all a bunch of crap, and I think most of you know it....even when you're writing it. So it's hardly any wonder if I don't always play along.

I think that's a strawman. I've never heard anyone claim he's evil, or mean, or callous.

I just think he's incompetent and cheap. And not so much cheap overall, as penny-wise/pound-foolish. He'll splurge to give a "loyalty" contract to an aging veteran while losing a free agent because he'll make him fly coach. He'll happily waste a year of a first-round pick if it means making up some money on the back end of the deal. He'll skimp on competent medical care - saving a couple hundred thousand maybe, but costing you millions in injured players.

What I can't decide is if he's just totally incompetent, or if he knowingly takes $ over W's. But if you made the claim that he cares a lot but just can't do the job - I don't know that I'd argue.

[BengalByTheBay]

And while Pumpkie's remarks about Smith's holdout were embarrassing, they came nowhere close to the horror that is Jim Lippincott in short pants. For those who missed it, Lippy is best described as a human freak show whose body shape seems to make no sense whatsoever until you imagine it in it's natural state, sitting motionless in a chair for hours and hours.

No doubt. Lippy was by far the most horrifying thing in the show.

Correct about Lippincott, but you're letting pumpkin off too easily. Perhaps because of your continuing fantasies of bending the lipless one over a handy piece of furniture. Let her go man, she's just a show pony, you need a stallion. Besides that, I find it creepy that anyone has fantasies of any kind about that scrawny pre-teen lookin' runt. I mean, can't you still picture the braces on those teeth? Yeech.

[HairOnFire]

I think that's a strawman. I've never heard anyone claim he's evil, or mean, or callous.

Correction. You've never taken those arguments seriously. But you can't really expect me to believe you haven't read posts about how Mike Brown threatened to leave Cincy, thereby forcing city fathers to accept a stadium lease so one-sided that Cincy's schoolchildren now wander the streets shoeless and stupid.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Correction. You've never taken those arguments seriously. But you can't really expect me to believe you haven't read posts about how Mike Brown threatened to leave Cincy,

Of course I've heard them. Further, I bet he did. Further, I bet in pretty much any stadium deal negotiation that involves public financing, the owner threatens to move, at least to the next town over. It's the only leverage they have. So in that case, you're alluding to something that almost certainly did occur.

thereby forcing city fathers to accept a stadium lease so one-sided

I'm not as familiar with the stadium deal because it was after I moved but before the advent of team-specific message boards. But as I understand it, Mikey drives a pretty tough bargain. Better yet, I bet I could find some posts of *yours* when you extol Mikey's virtue as a negotiator, typically reaming the city/county. This typically occurs when you're defending him against claims of utter stupidity from other members of this here message board. So if there's anyone making such claims of one-sided negotiations...it might just be you.

that Cincy's schoolchildren now wander the streets shoeless and stupid.

I don't want to cast aspersions on the state of public education in Cincinnati, but even I cannot lay that burden at Mikey's feet alone.

[Sea Ray]

My guess is Kenny Watson was cut in a different manner than JD Runnels. They're going to end up cutting 30-40 players before it's all said and done. I doubt they can afford to run them all up to Marvin's office and do it gently. This is a tough part of the game and if this scene was played before an Oprah audience I'd understand the outrage. I don't get why this has struck such a nerve on these boards. Don't you think Paul Brown had Lippy doing this for him as well?

[kingwilly]

My guess is Kenny Watson was cut in a different manner than JD Runnels. They're going to end up cutting 30-40 players before it's all said and done. I doubt they can afford to run them all up to Marvin's office and do it gently. This is a tough part of the game and if this scene was played before an Oprah audience I'd understand the outrage. I don't get why this has struck such a nerve on these boards. Don't you think Paul Brown had Lippy doing this for him as well?

Lippincot has the figure of a woman who's borne 6 or more children.

You'd think ML would be involved in cutting a more veteran player. perhaps not.

As for the Brown's and their football incompetence - they are simply run as a family business, where bringing in new ideas and management talent is simply not done. no new people or ideas means less chance they will find it themselves. there is no freshness or perspective.

I draw the parallel to Indy. Since moving to Indianapolis, the colts have drafted a franchise QB, hired Dungy, a cereberal coach who treated players like professionals and built a new stadium. The arc of their modern success is rooted in a young owner realizing the need for a GM. It is captured best by the Wiki page for Indy.

"On December 21, 1997, the Colts lost to the Vikings and finishing the season 3-13. The very next day, Bill Polian was hired as President to try and turn the team around. Polian was general manager of the Buffalo Bills from 1986-1993. "When Bill Polian was promoted to the GM position, the Bills were suffering from back to back 2-14 seasons and fan interest was at an all-time low. Polian had expertly put the pieces together that would make the Bills a "championship caliber team," appearing in an NFL record, 4 straight Super Bowls. Because of his accomplishments, Bill Polian won the NFL Executive of the Year Award twice, in 1988 and in 1991. Polian then became general manager of the Carolina Panthers from 1994-1996. He tried to create the quickest Super Bowl winner in history, and nearly did so, building a team that went to the NFC Championship game in only its second year of existence."

Then, the 1998 drafting of Manning, under the leadership of Polian, was the foundation of more than a decade of success.

Dungy came to the team in 2002 and went 85-27 with a SB. 85-27...with a GM, with a smart owner. Do you think Jim Irsay would have sat in front of the staff and held a sermon, syaing some dumb stuff about moving a DE to TE? or essentailly deciding how many FB's or TE's to carry? Child Please.

Then in 2004, Irsay and the City agreed to a $675M stadium deal, widely regarded as mututally beneficial deal.

I attibute the stark contrast in results, despite the many commonalities, to the Bengals ownership. SoP to be specific.

It's the Brown's, stupid.

[Ickey44]

It's the Brown's, stupid.

Going out on a limb here, but I'm pretty sure everyone already knows that.

[NJ29]

I love Chris Crocker.

[Ickey44]

I love Chris Crocker.

Chris Crocker's the man. I don't know how he was unemployed last season.

[jjakq27]

Browns let him go correct?

[Baraka]

yeah, how could he have been unemployed? dudes a force. a leader. and a pretty swell guy from all accounts.

[derekshank]

James Harrison was cut from 4 different teams before finally sticking with the Steelers. It happens all the time. Just be happy the Bengals were able to find someone on waivers that actually knows how to play football... compared to the guys they've plucked in the past.

[BengalByTheBay]

yeah, how could he have been unemployed? dudes a force. a leader. and a pretty swell guy from all accounts.

I loved the smack he was running at 85. "Honey, sugar, whatever you call yourself." AWESOME.

[NJ29]

yeah, how could he have been unemployed? dudes a force. a leader. and a pretty swell guy from all accounts.

I loved the smack he was running at 85. "Honey, sugar, whatever you call yourself." AWESOME.

"If you want some, get some."

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

James Harrison was cut from 4 different teams before mainlining enough HGH to kill a horse

Fixed.