Any chance Andre Smith is signed...ever?

[ArmyBengal]

Can't see the Bengals being that team to have someone re-enter the draft either. To tell you the truth, ANY agent that actually allows his client to pass up the millions being offered in order to re-enter the draft the following year is a MORON. There's no guarantees whatsoever and why does anyone think an agent is going to pass up his percentage of a top 1st round pick is beyond me. If I was a player and MY thought was to actually in fact re-enter the draft, the first thing I would do is fire my agent. It's a no win for them...

[combatbengal]

If it were me, I'd sign the contract and get into camp. Either way, Smith is set for life weather it's $33 million or $40 million! On the other hand, the Bengals showed that they are wanting to win with the draft and off season that we've had. Now they're stepping back with this money crap! Bengal management, do you want to win or not? Get this done so we can move on!

[HoosierCat]

Negotiating guaranteed money against escalators definitely makes sense, but you have to make a real offer. I think you lose credibility when the opening offer is just stupid.

But when was the opening offer made? All we've heard is a rumor about how far apart the two sides are now...after DHB inked with Oakland. Does anyone know what Keel's opening bid was? Or if either side has bothered countering?

Given that Reedy's report said that the Bengals and Team Smith hadn't spoken since Monday the 3rd, and that DHB was signed July 30, my bet is that the $33 million represents an offer made in late July prior to the DHB deal.

At this point, I'm guessing that the Bengals know they'll have to give Smith more than DHB, but aren't feeling pressured to bite the bullet and do the deal because Collins is looking good at RT. So Mikey keeps his money in the bank, earning interest for him and not Smith, for a few more weeks. If we didn't have Collins and were counting on, say, Dennis Roland at RT I'd be up in arms, but as is I can't get too upset. Frankly, I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have AC starting week 1 instead of Smith. I think Smith will be the better player eventually, but I'm never in a rush to start a rookie tackle.

Heck, between the way our TEs are dropping and the Bengals' historical preference for easing tackles in as blocking TEs, there may be space for Smith even if Collins is the starting RT.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm guessing the Bengals are more than willing to close the gap very quickly, but are "patiently" waiting for a reasonable counter offer from Keels or completed deals for #4 and #8.

Well, the #4 spot is done as Aaron Curry is signed by the Seahawks...

The Seattle Seahawks have announced via their Twitter page they have signed linebacker Aaron Curry, the fourth overall pick in April's draft.

Mr. Florio, reporting live from a chat room at the Hall of Fame ceremonies, says the deal is for six years and $60 million, with $34 million guaranteed, according to a league source.

Curry's deal comes two days after third overall pick Tyson Jackson signed with the Chiefs. Jackson's deal was reported to have $31 million guaranteed.

The move is official, so Curry should be on the field for Seattle's Sunday practice. He is expected to be one of the most "pro-ready" rookies and is expected to be Seattle's starting strong-side linebacker from Week One.

The team released Billy McMullen to make room on the roster.

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/08/seahawks-get-curry-under-contract/

[ArmyBengal]

Curry basically got the same dollar amount that Sanchez did at about 10 million per year. Curry signed for 6 years where Sanchez signed for five and for the extra year, Curry got 34 million guaranteed where Sanchez's QB deal netted him 28 million. Just throwing the comparison out there.

[Kazkal]

wonder if this will help us or if we'll have wait for monroe too....Which would make me sad with how long jaguars pick held out last year and heard the jaguars were offering Monroe same amount as Derrick harvEy

[Bearcat1975]

Dear Mike, Katie, and Troy,

WTF?! Again? Really?

Unreal.

[COB]

I think most of us can agree that there has to be a limit to the slotting. By that I mean there has to be a point at which the team that picked right after you oversteps the bounds of reason and overpays so grossly that you just have to tell your guy, "f**k you, you're not getting more than the guy picked behind you."

I mean, everyone here surely can think of a number that would, if they were running the Bengals, make them put the brakes on and make a stand. (I'm exluding Bearcat from this assumption, as he clearly has the business acumen of a first year girl scout trodding down Maple Street with her first box of Thin Mints)

So if we can all agree that the number exists, the only question becomes; Did the Raiders reach that number?

Al Davis' seven remaining brain cells obviously weren't working well, as he massively overpaid for a pretty questionable draft pick. Someone (who isn't licensed by the NFL as an agent, or someone who doesn't delusionally believe that NFL teams have unlimited resources and should pay every free agent and draft pick whatever he asks for - Bearcat) please tell me why Mike Brown should let Al Davis, or anyone else, dictate to him what he should pay his players.

The Raiders showed themselves to be incompetent morons. That doesn't then automatically require every other owner in the league to follow suit.

It is kind of the perfect storm to test the slotting system that agents have lived on for years. Find one weak link in the chain, for instance Dan Snyder, and every agent after him in the draft automatically gets his guy more. Throw in a few Dan Snyders or Al Davis', and you get what we have now, a system that overpays unproven players so badly that the owners and most right-minded players agree it will be fixed in the next CBA.

Yet here come some downtrodden Bengal fans, bleating "pay him now, or he might miss a few weeks of camp!" Bulls**t. If I'm the Bengals, I hire my own plane to fly over camp dragging a sign that says, "Sorry Andre, you picked the wrong agent. Enjoy the combine next year, we'll pick you in the 3rd round and get your services for a fraction of what we're offering now."

Hopefully, the bargain basement crop duster Mike hires to do the job, for a third of what other pilots wanted, can make a few passes over the practice field before he crashes and burns.

[derekshank]

. It is kind of the perfect storm to test the slotting system that agents have lived on for years. Find one weak link in the chain, for instance Dan Snyder, and every agent after him in the draft automatically gets his guy more. Throw in a few Dan Snyders or Al Davis', and you get what we have now, a system that overpays unproven players so badly that the owners and most right-minded players agree it will be fixed in the next CBA.

The theory is sound. Unfortunately it's not just one or two owners that making a mockery of the system. Did you see Aaron Curry's deal? If Brown was hoping Curry was going to take a small deal to gain leverage over A. Smith... well, let's just say that plan backfired.

Curry's getting the most guaranteed money EVER for a non-QB. I know it's a 6 year deal... but even if you divide the guaranteed coin by the years on the contract, he's getting a 30% increase over last years #4 pick. That's right... The Seahawks just made Al Davis look like a shrewd and savvy negotiator.

I'm starting to wonder if the owners are letting these deals get out of hand on purpose so that even the player's association knows it's time for a change.

[membengal]

why would the player's association ever agree, based on this behavior, that it is "time for a change", derek? These crazy rookie conracts do move the baseline for what is "reasonable" for vets to sign extentions for. Witness Eli's contract extension. For all the bleating about that nationally, that was a fait accompli after Matt Stafford scored $41 million guaranteed and has never thrown a pass in the NFL.

CentralOhio: That was a great post in every respect. Co-sign. This thing only gets done when the Bengals get to their pressure point, whenever that is. Likely after pre-season week 3, if history is a guide.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Al Davis' seven remaining brain cells obviously weren't working well, as he massively overpaid for a pretty questionable draft pick. Someone (who isn't licensed by the NFL as an agent, or someone who doesn't delusionally believe that NFL teams have unlimited resources and should pay every free agent and draft pick whatever he asks for - Bearcat) please tell me why Mike Brown should let Al Davis, or anyone else, dictate to him what he should pay his players.

The analogy I make is to the real-estate market in 2004, when house prices were increasing at about exactly the same rate as rookie salaries now. In essence, the market may be retarded, but you can't really argue with it. The market is what it is, just like I had to overpay for a house because of a bunch of retarded real-estate speculators who made Al Davis look sane.

Basically, either pay the man, or don't. But whining about the realities of the market - no matter how stupid - doesn't really get us anywhere. The smartest thing would have been to trade the pick before the draft, since everybody knew the agents were looking at 2009-2010 as their last gasp for stupid rookie deals before the new CBA puts a slotting system in for rookies with annual increases in guaranteed money tagged to the salary cap.

At this point, what does it accomplish for Mikey to whine about the (admittedly crazy) numbers? Nothing. What do you get by playing hardball? You save maybe a couple percent on the total contract, but Smith becomes less valuable to you because he's unprepared for 2009 when you sign him a week before the season. So you save 3% on Andre's salary, but you get 10% less Andre over the life of the deal. It's fool's economy.

In this situation, there are only two sane choices: either get down to negotiations that will get a fair deal (by market standards) done in a reasonable time frame (which should have started a month ago), or tell Smith that paying 20% above the 2008 #6 pick is too rich, and his services aren't needed.

[ArmyBengal]

The deal is still going to get done one way or another and Smith will be a Bengal. I just thought with all the spots on either side of him getting done, this would have been less of an issue. Guess I was wrong, but we still are only a week into camp, so I'm still not concerned at this point.

[derekshank]

why would the player's association ever agree, based on this behavior, that it is "time for a change", derek? These crazy rookie conracts do move the baseline for what is "reasonable" for vets to sign extentions for. Witness Eli's contract extension. For all the bleating about that nationally, that was a fait accompli after Matt Stafford scored $41 million guaranteed and has never thrown a pass in the NFL.

Well, while the players association itself might have no real problem with it, the more ridiculous it gets, the less likely the owners are going to find it acceptable. And with rookies eating more and more of the salary cap... the less money there is for veterans.

And why would the players association resist a slotting system with any real force? It is populated mostly by veterans, and certainly controlled by them. Are they really going to die on this issue? The worse these contracts get, the more owners will demand a new system... and it's just not an issue that effects anyone currently in the union, so they will likely agree to a change.

[COB]

And why would the players association resist a slotting system with any real force? It is populated mostly by veterans, and certainly controlled by them.

That's what I read last year. The vets are completely fed up with rookies who may or may not even thrive in the league coming in and making more than them. It makes no sense to anyone but the agents negotiating rookie contracts. A rookie pay scale tied to draft position is the likely answer. I think the NBA has just such a system.

[BengalszoneBilly]

And why would the players association resist a slotting system with any real force? It is populated mostly by veterans, and certainly controlled by them.

That's what I read last year. The vets are completely fed up with rookies who may or may not even thrive in the league coming in and making more than them. It makes no sense to anyone but the agents negotiating rookie contracts. A rookie pay scale tied to draft position is the likely answer. I think the NBA has just such a system.

How would anyone here feel if a young kid just out of school was hired on by your company, and was paid a salary far higher than theirs without a single day on the job, and hasn't proved their worth?

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally would be extremely unhappy.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

That's what I read last year. The vets are completely fed up with rookies who may or may not even thrive in the league coming in and making more than them. It makes no sense to anyone but the agents negotiating rookie contracts. A rookie pay scale tied to draft position is the likely answer. I think the NBA has just such a system.

I'm sure they are. But like most unions, the rank and file gets damn near no say over the negotiations. Before Upshaw died, he was pretty cozy with the agents (Condon specifically, I believe), and the agents like doing rookie deals. Since they had Upshaw's ear, they convinced him that the 'trickle up' economy worked by driving up veteran deals based on rookie contract. I'm not sure why he fell for that when the salary cap is tied to revenue, but that's another story.

The real question will be how close DeMaurice Smith is to the agents, or whether he chooses to listen to the players.

[derekshank]

And why would the players association resist a slotting system with any real force? It is populated mostly by veterans, and certainly controlled by them.

That's what I read last year. The vets are completely fed up with rookies who may or may not even thrive in the league coming in and making more than them. It makes no sense to anyone but the agents negotiating rookie contracts. A rookie pay scale tied to draft position is the likely answer. I think the NBA has just such a system.

How would anyone here feel if a young kid just out of school was hired on by your company, and was paid a salary far higher than theirs without a single day on the job, and hasn't proved their worth?

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally would be extremely unhappy.

Interesting stat I read a while back... Most Americans would prefer to make less money but know they were making more than their coworkers, than to make more money, but know you were making less than your coworkers. For some reason I feel like athletes embody that stat more than most.

[BengalszoneBilly]

And why would the players association resist a slotting system with any real force? It is populated mostly by veterans, and certainly controlled by them.

That's what I read last year. The vets are completely fed up with rookies who may or may not even thrive in the league coming in and making more than them. It makes no sense to anyone but the agents negotiating rookie contracts. A rookie pay scale tied to draft position is the likely answer. I think the NBA has just such a system.

How would anyone here feel if a young kid just out of school was hired on by your company, and was paid a salary far higher than theirs without a single day on the job, and hasn't proved their worth?

I don't know about anyone else, but I personally would be extremely unhappy.

Interesting stat I read a while back... Most Americans would prefer to make less money but know they were making more than their coworkers, than to make more money, but know you were making less than your coworkers. For some reason I feel like athletes embody that stat more than most.

That's a weird statistic.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Time to pay the piper Brown, you snoozed, you lose. Wasting everyone's time because you don't like Al Davis over-paying his #7 is futile.

You had a 4-11-1 record last year, sign your #1 draft pick...last year he cut expensive veterans before the season started, this year he can sign a #1 pick and overpay him by $4-$5mm over the life of a contract, big freakin deal.

Why continue to penalize fans and the rest of the team because he did not take the proactive opportunity to set the slot himself?

Perfect example of why it's very hard to maintain any sort of real optimism as a fan of this team. I try though, really I do.

[volcom69]

Its because hes Mike Brown Shula, this happens every year and its getting real annoying. We always wonder why our team is such a laughing stock when it comes to media ect ect, its because they are so cheap and dont want to pay anyone. This offseason was going so good till now, and i know they have A. Collins who i really like, but i would love to see what A. Smith could do, now it looks like we will have to wait.

[Bearcat1975]

Funny thing is, Mike Brown is just fighting for the cap money he'll pocket at the end of the season.

[derekshank]

Funny thing is, Mike Brown is just fighting for the cap money he'll pocket at the end of the season.

Over the last few weeks I had found most of your posts slightly more tolerable, as you managed to look like a negative fan like Shula or Pong rather than a troll. But this post is just silly. Surely you understand that a contract that is 5 or 6 years long has more ramifications than just the '09 cap... right? Please tell me you're not that stupid.

I'll agree with everyone else that the damage has been done, and it appears Brown is not going to be able to sign Smith for a reasonable price... so he might as well pay up now. But I'm not wringing my hands either. The majority of 1st round picks are still unsigned... so the Bengals are only a laughingstock to their own fanbase, not the nation as a whole yet.

And I'm still of the opinion that Smith has not missed enough time yet to seriously impact his play this season. I'm just not wringing my hands over this. I do find all the panic stricken posts about Smith re-entering the draft next year quite amusing though... So keep up the good work everyone!

[membengal]

As I understand it, we are down to just 5 unsigned first round picks. Pick 6 (Cincy) one ahead of the Raiders and picks 8 - 11, the four after the Raiders. The "Al Davis five" I shall dub them.

I remain steadfast that this drags to past preseason game 3, and then something finally gets done. The "Pollack".

The signing status and known details the contracts of the 1st round draftees:

/>http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d810d9ec2&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[derekshank]

As I understand it, we are down to just 5 unsigned first round picks. Pick 6 (Cincy) one ahead of the Raiders and picks 8 - 11, the four after the Raiders. The "Al Davis five" I shall dub them.

I remain steadfast that this drags to past preseason game 3, and then something finally gets done. The "Pollack".

The signing status and known details the contracts of the 1st round draftees:

/>http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d810d9ec2&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Wow... That list filled out pretty quick. The last time I looked at it there were still multiple unsigned picks.

Anyway, it's pretty clear what happened here:

Sanchez signed... Mike Brown rightfully thinks "That's a QB contract."

Heyward-Bey signed... Mike Brown reasonably hoped that the other signings would be more realistic.

Curry signed... Mike Brown said "God Damnit!!! What is going on with these contracts?"

it is quite interesting that the picks surrounding Oakland are the ones remaining. The problem for the Bengals is that the picks prior to them are just as outrageous. Even if a couple teams can get more reasonable contracts for the remaining picks, it's unlikely the Bengals will gain any real leverage until it is clear that A Smith won't be a starter.

I rarely say this... but I think you might as well pay him. Hopefully this is the last year for this and a new CBA will correct the problem.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's my thing with Bengals fans and I can sit here and say that I understand the viewpoints, but everyone saw this coming from a mile away and yet they are somehow pissed about it. We are still 4 days from our first preseason game and even if he does miss that game, do you think it's the end of him for the season ?? I think not. Heck, he could be out for a couple more weeks, come into camp for the remainder of the time, and still be the week one stater. The deal will get done, but I do agree with whoever said Mike Brown should have been more proactive in the slotting process as opposed to waiting around on the likes of one Al Davis, thinking he was going to help the situation.