Marvin has to go

[walzav29]

There are probably a million threads already on this. I'm not even checking. This is themost uninspried team I've seen since the Shula days. It's over. This team is gone, and now what? A real coach doesn't want to deal with Mike Brown. I'm starting a new game with my Lions and Raider fan buddies. Rooting for the highest draft choice without getting the #1 pick. Why didn't they draft a RB? They are dumb.

[agreen_112]

Agreed. Mike Brown should retire.

[gregstephens]

Agreed. Mike Brown should retire.

Ok...we're all agreed. However, one slight problem--he don't gotta and he ain't gonna.

That said, piss off the decade of the Two-thousands, because we only got one more year left and we've had one post season trip this decade. It ain't changing soon. How many decades have we as fans seen wasted away now?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

How many decades have we as fans seen wasted away now?

Two. Don't forget it was just a result of some bad luck and injuries, and the NFL conspiracy against the Bengals.

Keep going to games and enabling Mike Brown, you might miss something.

[TJJackson]

Yeah, he has to go......but only because Mike Brown made him valueless by taking his feet out from under him - the most obvious instance of which being the return of Chris Henry

Marvin cannot wait to be out of here, and frankly, I don't blame him. When your boss interferes with your ability to do your job, success becomes nearly impossible.

I'm not saying he was the greatest coach ever before Son-Of_Genius started tampering.....but he was the best we had had in some time

To be even more clear, the one person who really does need to go is Mike Brown. Unfortunately, he's also the one person who can stay as long as he decides to

[walzav29]

I agree. I think Marvin is a good coach, but the team lost interest. Hopefully Mike will learn to not interfere with the new coach. The problem is who would be a good candidate? That would actually come here.

[damiancasey]

Yeah, he has to go......but only because Mike Brown made him valueless by taking his feet out from under him - the most obvious instance of which being the return of Chris Henry

Marvin cannot wait to be out of here, and frankly, I don't blame him. When your boss interferes with your ability to do your job, success becomes nearly impossible.

I'm not saying he was the greatest coach ever before Son-Of_Genius started tampering.....but he was the best we had had in some time

To be even more clear, the one person who really does need to go is Mike Brown. Unfortunately, he's also the one person who can stay as long as he decides to

I agree...it floors me how many cries of "fire marvin" I'm hearing. So we fire Marvin...then what? MB has now proved beyond any discussion that he hasn't changed and will continue to run a completely dysfunctional organization.

Now - that being said - no legitimate coach in their right mind is going to come to Cincinnati.

That leaves up-and-coming coaches and untested coaches - we've seen how effective MB is at picking these guys AND how effective they are once they get into the Cincinnati-soup-sandwich.

Get used to this crap, guys. Marvin Lewis is NOT the problem. He's not the greatest coach in the world but I he's largely a victim of the system.

[volcom69]

Marvin Lewis sucks and he is the problem. Each week this guy gets out coached, and he puts a bunch of undiscaplined guys on the field. He has a coaching staff that i wonder half the time if they can even coach pee wee football. He allows guys to walk up and down on him and he cant do a damn thing about it because he seems scared for some reason. Say what you want but he had things to do with the leaving of Wille, Rudi, Deltha, now he is left with no leadership what so ever, but yet he does nothing about because he beileves in not motivating his guys. His team is so heartless, soft, and has not played as a team since 2005, when he lost the team. This team is probably filled with talent but nobody knows it when we have coaches like this who cant coach. He needs to go somewhere and coach a defense or LBs again cause thats all hes good for. I really dont care who comes in here to coach right now just not this guy he seems like a p***y and cant control his team. He is the coach, so prove it and coach.

[GregCook]

Remember....this is Marvin Lewis's and Mike Brown's guys on the field. All drafted or re-signed in the ML era.

Results count, right?

This team is heading for zero wins as likely as 1 this season. Mike Brown should fire ML and his entire coaching staff with one exception. Zimmer.

But who will fire Mike Brown?

What makes this much worse than the 90's is that now, the Bengals have talent on the field. Yet they rival the worst of the 90's untalented teams.

[damiancasey]

Again - what's the only constant since 1991?

Coaches? No

Players? No

Stadium? No

Ownership organization? Yes

Maybe Marvin does need to go - I'll bet you that if MB offered him 50 cents on the dollar to buy out his contract he would gladly take it. That being said getting a new head coach isn't going to solve the organizational issues that are THE problem. Again, Marvin isn't the greatest coach ever.

We are tied for LAST for playoff appearances since 1991, gentlemen. L-A-S-T. Is that ML's fault? No.

I really thought that Mike Brown had experienced a come-to-Jesus back in 2000 and that he was a changed man. I have been very hesitant to point blame at him since then - but - the events of the last six months have proven to everyone that this is the same bad joke we cringed at through the '90's.

To say changing the coach is going to make a huge difference is like saying that changing the pilot of a plane will make it fly better when it has a rubberband for an engine.

[jonf45uk]

i agree that this goes far deeper than marvin lewis and the coaches, but they are useless. They can't complain of having a talentless group of players, but time after time players have been allowed to get away with murder(hypothetically- for the moment anyway). There is no respect for the coaches from the players and thats why they won't give 110% on every play.

Most organisations would have rid themselves of the coaching and most of the playing staff along time ago( How does John Thornton keep coming back every year- does he have some "interesting" photos of mike brown tucked away somewhere??)

but of course as long as the fans keep paying at the door and buying new shirts they aren't going to care about win, lose or draw.

moreover, Marvin Lewis was supposedly a "defensive genius" and look what he's achieved.

this whole organisation is a joke: 1 winning season in 20 years is really, really pathetic, and must have been very hard to achieve!!

jon

[volcom69]

I get that Mike Brown runs the ship, but Marvin is the coach and needs to coach and he cant coach he gets out coached all the time. There could be all kinds of talent on this team but nobody will know because this coaching staff is crap.

[Scottishbengal]

I get fed up hearing the moans about Mikey boy. It's his business, it's his team - he can, and will, do what the hell he wants with it.

The way I see it the problem with MB is that he is TOO loyal to his coaching staff and prepared to wait TOO LONG for it to be turned around. ML should have gone last season.

Even IF mikey has an input into signing Chris Henry or retaining John Thornton (against the wishes of the coaching staff???) its ML who puts the guys on the field of play, ML who calls the plays from the sideline, ML who holds the buck when it stops.

Marvin Lewis came with a big reputation of being a defensive genious and has failed to deliver. You can blame injuries, bad characters etc all you like but history will show that ML's Bengals defenses have ranked:-

2008 so far 19th

2007 27th

2006 30th

2005 28th

2004 19th

2003 28th

[HoosierCat]

Dumping Marvin right now would be possibly the stupidest move on the planet.

Why?

Because it would almost certainly mean our new "temporary" head coach is either Drunkowski or Alexander.

Hardly an improvement.

[membengal]

Zimmer?

[HoosierCat]

Zimmer?

An even worse outcome. We finally have a DC who appears to b (gasp!) improving the D...so we yank him off of it?

And, of course, that only points out another problem with the "fire Marvin" idea: any new coach is going to want to control over his staff. Who knows if Zimmer stays if Marvin goes?

[membengal]

The more interesting question is going to be who is the list of potential replacements when Lewis quits/is fired after a 2-14 campaign.

Will it have some decent names on it like we had with Coughlin and Lewis last time? Or will Mike B wrench that decision back from Katie B and put more craptacular names on like the olden days. Either way, it won't be good. In fact, I don't see any light in this particular tunnel at the moment, at all. Not unless Mike Brown finally dies.

[gregstephens]

The more interesting question is going to be who is the list of potential replacements when Lewis quits/is fired after a 2-14 campaign.

Will it have some decent names on it like we had with Coughlin and Lewis last time? Or will Mike B wrench that decision back from Katie B and put more craptacular names on like the olden days. Either way, it won't be good. In fact, I don't see any light in this particular tunnel at the moment, at all. Not unless Mike Brown finally dies.

Linehan? Kiffin? He'll be available soon.

[membengal]

Fans are gonna be wanting to see names like Cowher on the list. That ain't gonna happen.

Lane Kiffin? I actually wouldn't mind that, myself.

Instead, we will probably see a list with names on it like Capers, Mohrninweg, Linehan, before we stay in-house and fire Paul Alexander.

Seriously, the only thing that will really change this franchise's fate is when death chooses to come for its owner.

[HoosierCat]

Fans are gonna be wanting to see names like Cowher on the list. That ain't gonna happen.

Lane Kiffin? I actually wouldn't mind that, myself.

Instead, we will probably see a list with names on it like Capers, Mohrninweg, Linehan, before we stay in-house and fire Paul Alexander.

Seriously, the only thing that will really change this franchise's fate is when death chooses to come for its owner.

If Marvin were to go now, I doubt they'd even look outside. We've seen this movie before, too.

First, Brat or Alexander gets appointed interim coach.

Then the Bengals start to perk up a bit. Maybe spit the next four games. Hobson starts writing daily stories about how the team is rallying round the interim coach and quotes anonymous front office sources from around the league on how it's a shame that Brat/Alexander has never held a permanent HC job.

Throughout November and into December the Bengals hang with some tough teams, maybe even pull off an upset because they catch an opponent on a week when the entire first string is down with dysentery or something.

Then, of course, comes the infamous Dead Cat Bounce. The Bengals run the table in the last three weeks and finish something like 5-11 or 6-10. Hobson writes more stories about how the team rallied to .500 (or thereabouts) under the new coach. The front office declares that Things Are Moving In The Right Direction, that they must Stay The Course and work to Get The Oxcart Out Of The Ditch. Brat/Alexander is given a 2-year contract as head coach.

Then: the Bengals sign no one in free agency. TJ is allowed to walk and Chad gets an $85 million extension. With our first round pick, the Bengals draft a running back.

And ticket prices go up another five bucks.

[jjakq27]

Why didn't they draft a RB? They are dumb.

They had a chance in 2004 when they passed on Steven Jackson to take Perry.

[jjakq27]

Fans are gonna be wanting to see names like Cowher on the list. That ain't gonna happen.

Lane Kiffin? I actually wouldn't mind that, myself.

Instead, we will probably see a list with names on it like Capers, Mohrninweg, Linehan, before we stay in-house and fire Paul Alexander.

Seriously, the only thing that will really change this franchise's fate is when death chooses to come for its owner.

If Marvin were to go now, I doubt they'd even look outside. We've seen this movie before, too.

First, Brat or Alexander gets appointed interim coach.

Then the Bengals start to perk up a bit. Maybe spit the next four games. Hobson starts writing daily stories about how the team is rallying round the interim coach and quotes anonymous front office sources from around the league on how it's a shame that Brat/Alexander has never held a permanent HC job.

Throughout November and into December the Bengals hang with some tough teams, maybe even pull off an upset because they catch an opponent on a week when the entire first string is down with dysentery or something.

Then, of course, comes the infamous Dead Cat Bounce. The Bengals run the table in the last three weeks and finish something like 5-11 or 6-10. Hobson writes more stories about how the team rallied to .500 (or thereabouts) under the new coach. The front office declares that Things Are Moving In The Right Direction, that they must Stay The Course and work to Get The Oxcart Out Of The Ditch. Brat/Alexander is given a 2-year contract as head coach.

Then: the Bengals sign no one in free agency. TJ is allowed to walk and Chad gets an $85 million extension. With our first round pick, the Bengals draft a running back.

And ticket prices go up another five bucks.

I think it has become painfully obvious that the major flaw is in the acquisition, development and cycling of talent through the organization. The first three drafts (2003-2005) basically yielded Palmer and that's about it. This should be the prime of that groups career but sadly they are all gone.

I don't necessarily agree that they need more scouts, I think they need to change their philosophy a little and quit going for the reach guys and projects and get guys that can help in that first year. What you think you are gaining on the back end of a contract gains you nothing when those players are already cycled out in three or four years. See Ratliff, Landon, Caleb and Madieu for examples.

If you can get guys that can help in the first, second or third rounds each year then you've got something going. Look at the Giants. It seems like every year they take a D-lineman. The Steelers always seem to have a young LB or two. The Ravens do the same thing. That's why when Peter Bouware or Jamie Sharper leaves, you plug in Adalius Thomas. When he leaves you plug in Bart Scott and so on.

I also wonder if this mandate about "must play special teams" doesn't water down the talent pool a little bit. I know it is an important facet of the game but keeping a guy like Caleb Miller because he plays teams vs. someone more specialized that might be in on thirty or forty plays per game might bear reviewing.