Centralized Thoughts from the Debacle

[membengal]

1. It would be easier to excuse this if this was a matter of being out-talented, but, the Bengals had the better talent on that field. Harbaugh had his bunch more ready to play. And then some. Lewis got out-coached. Again.

2. For all of Frostee Rucker's detractors on this site, he showed up rather large yesterday. A real presence on the D-line.

3. Apparently you canNOT just take off August and have everything be ok. Sorry that bugs you, TJ, but there it is.

4. The continuing lack of adquate game-planning and adjusting to game conditions by this coaching staff boggles this fan's mind. You knew all week that Willie was available to help them with reads, maybe you might want to switch up your tendencies, or disguise your looks, in response? Maybe a little? No? Well, then, f**k you very much, Bengals coaches. On top of that, chalk up yet another game where the coaches apparently spent the halftime googling Jessica Alba Nude rather than making changes to what had NOT been working in the first 30 minutes.

5. The lack of professional pride on that team from its star players is breathtaking. Year after year, it appears the fanbase cares a LOT more than the guys on the field, and, in particular, its star players on the field, about winning.

6. Carson Palmer...hey now. It is past time for you yourself to grab this team by the throat and demand better. You. On the field. And, while we are here, you need to stop playing scared. Sorry your knee got caved in all those years ago. Sorry your nose was broken two weeks ago, but you need to find the calm and confidence you once possessed. Like, say, in 2005. But it has been gone since the Pittsburgh playoff game, and until you get it back, this team is going nowhere. It is, in large measure, on you at this point. Time to lead. Time to man up.

6.5. And, it's not like you are the first passer to have to deal with an ACL. Donovan McNabb, for instance, has gone through that since you. And he was last seen throwing for nearly 400 yards and 3 scores yesterday. And his receiving core includes Hank Baskette. But what he doesn't look like, is scared. He never has, even when he gimped through the return to the field last year.

7. Loved what I saw out of the corners, good tight coverage. Less thrilled with the linebacker play. Aghast at the lack of consistent pressure once again. Some of that was due to quick passes by Flacco. But a lot of that was because this team is still not consistent with a rush. And brings blitzes that never ever seem to get there.

8. The inability of the offense to sustain drives, or do much of anything right, hung the D out to dry at the end of the fourth quarter. They were tired. Still, they should have been able to get a stop. Then again, if they had? The offense wasn't going to score, so I don't think it mattered.

9. I thought one of the bonuses of keeping Chris Perry and starting him was as a receiver out of the backfield. Guess not? Jeebus, a screen every so often? Something?

10. I cannot imagine how hard it will be for the home crowd to get excited and sustain excitment next Sunday, with a team that appears to not really give a s**t playing in front of them.

It's all off right now. I have no idea if it can be fixed. I suspect not. At least, not with Marvin Lewis coaching like he currently is coaching. No fire from him. No fire from his team. No fire anywhere.

f**k.

[walzav29]

Let's work backwards. What was good?

The play of the corners.

Shayne Graham.

[damiancasey]

Let's work backwards. What was good?

The play of the corners.

Shayne Graham.

What was good?

I still like the uniforms and the beer was good.

[Wraith]

What was wrong with Carson's play in 2006 4,035 yards 28 TDs 13 INTs a QB rating of 93.9 a better than 62% completion rate? For that matter aside from the INTs (largely due to Palmer not having a running game and pressing throws he would not have otherwise tried) last season was pretty good too, a nearly 65% completion % is pretty darn good. This BS about Palmer playing scared is ridiculous he was fifth in the league in passing yards last year, he is 8th in completion %. It is completely revisionist history to say that Palmer has been affected in any way by his knee injury.

Yesterday's game was a piss poor game all around, let see how the team bounces back.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Chris Perry isn't very good and can't run like he used to in the open field.

The o-line is simply garbage (no mention of that above for some reason). That is the predominate reason for the offense declining the last 3 years, and the Bengals' woeful personnel "people" doing literally nothing about it.

Palmer looks "Bungalized" - it happens to all of the QB's here eventually. Like head coaches, it's impossible to succeed under Mike Brown, lucky season where the stars align aside.

[BengalByTheBay]

Hard to disagree with any of those points. I thought the passing game finally got a little traction in the late 3rd and early 4th, but it was still inconsistent and the pace of the playcalling was rough. I was thinking that they needed to kick the FG on the 4th & 1 1/2, but can't be too much of a Monday morning QB. I can, however, say that call sucked. Off tackle? The only real running success was on the edges and I thought that was what they would call for Perry. As it was, I just thought there was no imagination there -- perhaps BB scared himself when his always favorite shovel pass got sniffed out previously. Didn't like the run into the line.

I usually defend the coaching, but damn......

[gregstephens]

What was wrong with Carson's play in 2006 4,035 yards 28 TDs 13 INTs a QB rating of 93.9 a better than 62% completion rate? For that matter aside from the INTs (largely due to Palmer not having a running game and pressing throws he would not have otherwise tried) last season was pretty good too, a nearly 65% completion % is pretty darn good. This BS about Palmer playing scared is ridiculous he was fifth in the league in passing yards last year, he is 8th in completion %. It is completely revisionist history to say that Palmer has been affected in any way by his knee injury.

Yesterday's game was a piss poor game all around, let see how the team bounces back.

If your statement is that this Palmer is the same 2005 Palmer, or better, I have to disagree. I know the 2006 numbers looked great, but if you watched every game of the 2005 season, and every game of the 2006 season, and most of us have or we wouldn't be on here, his game changed in 2006. He wasn't as sharp, he wasn't as aggressive and his decisions were better in 2005. Granted, who knows if that was the knee or if defenses started realizing the Brat system of offense, but his game has lost a little something every season since 2005.

And for God's sake, what the heck happened to the no huddle yesterday? One of the best weapons they have left in Brat's tired bag of tricks and they didn't use it early or often enough.

[membengal]

Disagree with you on the other thread, Greg, but you are spot on here. There is no way that has been the same Palmer since the injury. His numbers were decent in '06, but we remarked all year during the 2006 season on this site about how uneasy he looked in pressure. It was understandable, and we figured it would go away with time and continued trust in his knee.

It hasn't.

Last year, the INTs went way up, a nod to how much more difficult it is for him to stand in and deal with pressure than it used to be. Before the injury, he was able to move around in the pocket, or roll out, far better than he does now. Now, if he has to move his feet much at all, he gets out of rhythm.

As for the no huddle's absence? Good question. Perhaps it is an extension of not having had enough reps in August given how much time was missed by key players. Maybe it is that Ghuicac is simply unable to make the right blocking calls at C, who knows? But it was missed, and missed sorely.

[gregstephens]

Disagree with you on the other thread, Greg, but you are spot on here. There is no way that has been the same Palmer since the injury. His numbers were decent in '06, but we remarked all year during the 2006 season on this site about how uneasy he looked in pressure. It was understandable, and we figured it would go away with time and continued trust in his knee.

It hasn't.

Last year, the INTs went way up, a nod to how much more difficult it is for him to stand in and deal with pressure than it used to be. Before the injury, he was able to move around in the pocket, or roll out, far better than he does now. Now, if he has to move his feet much at all, he gets out of rhythm.

As for the no huddle's absence? Good question. Perhaps it is an extension of not having had enough reps in August given how much time was missed by key players. Maybe it is that Ghuicac is simply unable to make the right blocking calls at C, who knows? But it was missed, and missed sorely.

And our disagreement on the Steinbach issue is nominal at this point, as I agree with you that the center issue is the key catalyst in all this. If you have Steinbach, I think the o-line is a little better, but until they get a real center and get some depth to what they got, you are probably right, the no huddle isn't going to work. This offensive line can't do the job when they have time to set and think. Rush them into the play and I don't think it gets any better.

[fattyjay]

I wasn't able to watch the game yesterday, but I went throught the play-by-play today and it was obvious from the first offensive series the offense was not prepared to play. To have 2 of the first 3 plays result in sacks is ludicrous, and pair that with taking a timeout. What?!!! The coaches should be ashamed of themselves for the product they sent out on the field. The offense called 2 timeouts and had a delay of game before the clock even became a factor in the first half. That tells me that the offensive coaches did not have their act together, regardless of how poorly the o-line played.

[GregCook]

I wasn't able to watch the game yesterday, but I went throught the play-by-play today and it was obvious from the first offensive series the offense was not prepared to play. To have 2 of the first 3 plays result in sacks is ludicrous, and pair that with taking a timeout. What?!!! The coaches should be ashamed of themselves for the product they sent out on the field. The offense called 2 timeouts and had a delay of game before the clock even became a factor in the first half. That tells me that the offensive coaches did not have their act together, regardless of how poorly the o-line played.

In the NFL, the offensive line is the foundation for success, right? Ours can't block nor pass protect. Until they do, we lose often and ugly. At this rate, Carson will get hurt and then we are throughly screwed.

[icehole3]

besides the weekly schooling our coaches get from any and every coach in the NFL, it was sickening to hear Big Willie say they didnt need his help with the playbook and that the Ravens knew what was coming because we do the same sheat every damn year, stuff thats repeated on this board every week. Also Willie says the Ravens practices are "night and day, organized mayhem" compared to wussy Bengals practices. Finally if you thought Rivers was jogging on the Flacco run, just take a look at the effort JJoseph gives on the triple reverse, sickening.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=teams

[cHaD711Johnson]

Chris Perry isn't very good and can't run like he used to in the open field.

What opportunity did he get to run in the open field? LT wouldn't have been able to get any yards with the way that the line was blocking yesterday.

[BengalByTheBay]

Finally if you thought Rivers was jogging on the Flacco run, just take a look at the effort JJoseph gives on the triple reverse, sickening.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=teams

You're not kidding -- seemed pretty uncharacteristic because he was pretty pumped on a number of previous plays. It's almost like he was hoping not to have to get into the play. Disgusting for a professional football player.

[COB]

it was sickening to hear Big Willie say they didnt need his help with the playbook and that the Ravens knew what was coming because we do the same sheat every damn year, stuff thats repeated on this board every week. Also Willie says the Ravens practices are "night and day, organized mayhem" compared to wussy Bengals practices. http://www.nfl.com/videos?categoryId=teams

Damn. That is sickening.

[Dadraftnick]

1. It would be easier to excuse this if this was a matter of being out-talented, but, the Bengals had the better talent on that field. Harbaugh had his bunch more ready to play. And then some. Lewis got out-coached. Again.

2. For all of Frostee Rucker's detractors on this site, he showed up rather large yesterday. A real presence on the D-line.

3. Apparently you canNOT just take off August and have everything be ok. Sorry that bugs you, TJ, but there it is.

4. The continuing lack of adquate game-planning and adjusting to game conditions by this coaching staff boggles this fan's mind. You knew all week that Willie was available to help them with reads, maybe you might want to switch up your tendencies, or disguise your looks, in response? Maybe a little? No? Well, then, f**k you very much, Bengals coaches. On top of that, chalk up yet another game where the coaches apparently spent the halftime googling Jessica Alba Nude rather than making changes to what had NOT been working in the first 30 minutes.

5. The lack of professional pride on that team from its star players is breathtaking. Year after year, it appears the fanbase cares a LOT more than the guys on the field, and, in particular, its star players on the field, about winning.

6. Carson Palmer...hey now. It is past time for you yourself to grab this team by the throat and demand better. You. On the field. And, while we are here, you need to stop playing scared. Sorry your knee got caved in all those years ago. Sorry your nose was broken two weeks ago, but you need to find the calm and confidence you once possessed. Like, say, in 2005. But it has been gone since the Pittsburgh playoff game, and until you get it back, this team is going nowhere. It is, in large measure, on you at this point. Time to lead. Time to man up.

6.5. And, it's not like you are the first passer to have to deal with an ACL. Donovan McNabb, for instance, has gone through that since you. And he was last seen throwing for nearly 400 yards and 3 scores yesterday. And his receiving core includes Hank Baskette. But what he doesn't look like, is scared. He never has, even when he gimped through the return to the field last year.

7. Loved what I saw out of the corners, good tight coverage. Less thrilled with the linebacker play. Aghast at the lack of consistent pressure once again. Some of that was due to quick passes by Flacco. But a lot of that was because this team is still not consistent with a rush. And brings blitzes that never ever seem to get there.

8. The inability of the offense to sustain drives, or do much of anything right, hung the D out to dry at the end of the fourth quarter. They were tired. Still, they should have been able to get a stop. Then again, if they had? The offense wasn't going to score, so I don't think it mattered.

9. I thought one of the bonuses of keeping Chris Perry and starting him was as a receiver out of the backfield. Guess not? Jeebus, a screen every so often? Something?

10. I cannot imagine how hard it will be for the home crowd to get excited and sustain excitment next Sunday, with a team that appears to not really give a s**t playing in front of them.

It's all off right now. I have no idea if it can be fixed. I suspect not. At least, not with Marvin Lewis coaching like he currently is coaching. No fire from him. No fire from his team. No fire anywhere.

f**k.

#2-- Frostee showed up largely? when he gets a couple of sacks and some pressures you can say that he showed largley.

It will take more than a couple of tackles.

With the exception of Joseph , everybody sucked.

The bottom line, ALL GAMES ARE WON AND LOST ON THE OFFENSIVE AND DEFFENSIVE LINE , and this team will suck until both lines(especialy the O- line) play a hell of a lot better or replaced.

[kingwilly]

1. It would be easier to excuse this if this was a matter of being out-talented, but, the Bengals had the better talent on that field. Harbaugh had his bunch more ready to play. And then some. Lewis got out-coached. Again.

2. For all of Frostee Rucker's detractors on this site, he showed up rather large yesterday. A real presence on the D-line.

3. Apparently you canNOT just take off August and have everything be ok. Sorry that bugs you, TJ, but there it is.

4. The continuing lack of adquate game-planning and adjusting to game conditions by this coaching staff boggles this fan's mind. You knew all week that Willie was available to help them with reads, maybe you might want to switch up your tendencies, or disguise your looks, in response? Maybe a little? No? Well, then, f**k you very much, Bengals coaches. On top of that, chalk up yet another game where the coaches apparently spent the halftime googling Jessica Alba Nude rather than making changes to what had NOT been working in the first 30 minutes.

5. The lack of professional pride on that team from its star players is breathtaking. Year after year, it appears the fanbase cares a LOT more than the guys on the field, and, in particular, its star players on the field, about winning.

6. Carson Palmer...hey now. It is past time for you yourself to grab this team by the throat and demand better. You. On the field. And, while we are here, you need to stop playing scared. Sorry your knee got caved in all those years ago. Sorry your nose was broken two weeks ago, but you need to find the calm and confidence you once possessed. Like, say, in 2005. But it has been gone since the Pittsburgh playoff game, and until you get it back, this team is going nowhere. It is, in large measure, on you at this point. Time to lead. Time to man up.

6.5. And, it's not like you are the first passer to have to deal with an ACL. Donovan McNabb, for instance, has gone through that since you. And he was last seen throwing for nearly 400 yards and 3 scores yesterday. And his receiving core includes Hank Baskette. But what he doesn't look like, is scared. He never has, even when he gimped through the return to the field last year.

7. Loved what I saw out of the corners, good tight coverage. Less thrilled with the linebacker play. Aghast at the lack of consistent pressure once again. Some of that was due to quick passes by Flacco. But a lot of that was because this team is still not consistent with a rush. And brings blitzes that never ever seem to get there.

8. The inability of the offense to sustain drives, or do much of anything right, hung the D out to dry at the end of the fourth quarter. They were tired. Still, they should have been able to get a stop. Then again, if they had? The offense wasn't going to score, so I don't think it mattered.

9. I thought one of the bonuses of keeping Chris Perry and starting him was as a receiver out of the backfield. Guess not? Jeebus, a screen every so often? Something?

10. I cannot imagine how hard it will be for the home crowd to get excited and sustain excitment next Sunday, with a team that appears to not really give a s**t playing in front of them.

It's all off right now. I have no idea if it can be fixed. I suspect not. At least, not with Marvin Lewis coaching like he currently is coaching. No fire from him. No fire from his team. No fire anywhere.

f**k.

#2-- Frostee showed up largely? when he gets a couple of sacks and some pressures you can say that he showed largley.

It will take more than a couple of tackles.

With the exception of Joseph , everybody sucked.

The bottom line, ALL GAMES ARE WON AND LOST ON THE OFFENSIVE AND DEFFENSIVE LINE , and this team will suck until both lines(especialy the O- line) play a hell of a lot better or replaced.

agree, agree, agree.

Frostee stood out as compared to Geathers...

I'd like to just point out that Mr. Whitworth seemed to be the worst beat of the O-line. He was overwhelmed dealing with Ngata.

Joseph looked like a sissy girl dancing around in that play avoiding getting his feet wet in puddles or some s**t.

This team needs the hot water turned off, the crap towels brought back, anything to toughenthef**k up...

FLACCOOO...RUNNING WILD...my head exploded. literally. I had to get up and go outside...I had one of those ctrl-alt-delete coments when you need to go in and shut some things down to get the system under control....literally about exploded.

My wife usually hears me yelling, cheering, getting into it, but after that I got very quiet, she came in and asked if the game was still on and I said it was over....switched over to the online radio and did some work that pays the bills.

Fmarvin. that's th new expression. Fmarvin

[HoTbOy]

IMO CPalmer is scared, the man knows what he is in for with this line, he had a nose broken in the PS and we know about the knee...Our biggest problems our with the decisions the FO makes, like drafting CPerry instead of SJackson that year, Letting ESteinbach go, keeping non productive people like JThorton, and letting DO'neal go knowing you can always use a good 3rd CB...This organization is mom & pop going up against Exxon,Mobil,Wal-Mart, you get the picture, they need a major overhaul starting at the top and on down to the ball boys...The owner thinks that he can make it work the way he has been doing it, and it is apparent to everyone else that it is not working, and in the NFL the little man gets gobbled up...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

IMO CPalmer is scared, the man knows what he is in for with this line...

I don't think that's fair. He keeps standing in there and taking his shots like he's always done. He just can't execute the plays because a couple of D-linemen are in his face before the play develops, and his WRs didn't help him out Sunday. I'd have to re-watch the game to say for sure, but it's also likely that the play calling didn't appropriately adapt to the lack of time that was available to Palmer, but I don't know for sure.

Bottom line, get the guy some damn help and he'll be fine. Of the other ten people on the field for the offense, not one of them did his job appropriately. Chad couldn't get open, TJ couldn't get open and didn't fight for the ball that was picked, Utecht dropped balls, Perry couldn't break tackles (though I don't know how much of that is his fault), and the line did nothing.

So you have 10 f***-ups and Carson is supposed to do something by himself? Gimme a break.

[GapControl]

IMO CPalmer is scared, the man knows what he is in for with this line...

I don't think that's fair. He keeps standing in there and taking his shots like he's always done. He just can't execute the plays because a couple of D-linemen are in his face before the play develops, and his WRs didn't help him out Sunday. I'd have to re-watch the game to say for sure, but it's also likely that the play calling didn't appropriately adapt to the lack of time that was available to Palmer, but I don't know for sure.

Bottom line, get the guy some damn help and he'll be fine. Of the other ten people on the field for the offense, not one of them did his job appropriately. Chad couldn't get open, TJ couldn't get open and didn't fight for the ball that was picked, Utecht dropped balls, Perry couldn't break tackles (though I don't know how much of that is his fault), and the line did nothing.

So you have 10 f***-ups and Carson is supposed to do something by himself? Gimme a break.

DC hit on the head. Carson can't make up for everyone else's mistakes. He is one man. This isn't a basketball team.

[BengalszoneBilly]

This isn't a basketball team.

Thanks for explaining the difference between sports for us. I was beginning to think CP was a Nascar driver.

[gregstephens]

This isn't a basketball team.

Thanks for explaining the difference between sports for us. I was beginning to think CP was a Nascar driver.

Well, that would explain all the left turns he kept making, most of them into walls.