Cuts coming on Saturday/Rudi, Willie Gone

[volcom69]

I get that Hoosier but in the last 2 years those guys we cut today either hardly played or played bad. Willie i really hated to see him go i hated it and i would hope would come back for less money, but he hardly played and how long could of we counted on him this year. Deltha half the time i could hardly if he even gave a crap, and i know the off. looked like crap this offseason, but they never had there full guys in there so im not really sure what we can go by there, who knows im just tryin to get excited about the season.

[HoosierCat]

I get that Hoosier but in the last 2 years those guys we cut today either hardly played or played bad. .

Right, but before that they were top performers in the playoff run, Willie on the line, Rudi getting a zillion yards on as many carries, Deltha getting double-digit picks...now all hope of reviving that -- which is what the Bengals largely tried to do in '06 and '07 -- is done. So people, understandably, see another '06 or '07.

In order for the Bengals to make some noise this year, the team needs big contributions from a lot of unknowns, as well as a few "has the light gone on?" types. In the later category are Bluto (maybe) and Stacy (ain't lookin' good). In the former, you got Odom, Simpson, Rucker, Caldwell, Rivers, Sims and Shirley, among others. And some of them are already hurt (Odom, Caldwell, Sims).

It's an easy year to get down on the Bengals' chances. And all in all, I usually would be. Not sure why I'm not. Everything is there: Mikey sticking his fingers in the pie again, various me-first players, another "youth movement," etc. But for some reason I'm just not getting bad vibes. It's not even a logic vs. heart thing. Both tell me the team is doomed. Yet I'm still not convinced. We'll see.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Rudi is a goner. take it to the bank. either traded or cut. Thornton too.

I'm just getting in here late from a pre-Labor Day BBQ out here in Arizona, and I heard Willie and Rudi got cut. I almost wrecked the truck! Please tell me Thornton was issued one too, because if Anderson deserved a pink slip, Thornton deserved one X10!

Willie was a Pro Bowler, and an offensive leader even though not Captain. John got whipped in a single Superbowl appearance, arrived in Cincinnati and became defensive Captain, but has yet been shown to be a leader in anything but ranking in the bottom of the league.

[Dadraftnick]

Deltha O'Neil ,Willie Anderson, and,Rudi Johnson gone.

I dont know how much money Mike Brown just put in his pocket but, the truth is Brown didnt cut these players to make his team better he cut them to make money.

Lets be honest Brown had a good idea that he was going to cut these guys before the season started.

If he had cut them at the begining of free agency( the way most teams do) then there would been plenty of money to spend on quality free agents ,which Mike Brown has never done .

Thats the way a gm would do it if he cared about winning.

Mike Brown only cares about money.

In loosing Johnson the Bengals loose any aspect of a power to their running game, he will not be missed that much.

In loosing Anderson they loose their heart -Willie was always the guy that said and done the right thing and the best thing for the team.

I think cutting Deltha was the dumbest of the cuts , who is their 3 CB? Deltha can still play and the team needs him especially in Zimmers defense -- this cut will translate into Losses.

[BengalszoneBilly]

In loosing Anderson they loose their heart -Willie was always the guy that said and done the right thing and the best thing for the team.

Not to mention his ability at protecting our star QB. I'm willing to bet Carson's sleeping habits are becoming more and more restless as the season approaches...

[jonf45uk]

In loosing Anderson they loose their heart -Willie was always the guy that said and done the right thing and the best thing for the team.

Not to mention his ability at protecting our star QB. I'm willing to bet Carson's sleeping habits are becoming more and more restless as the season approaches...

i wouldn't be suprised if he swaps shirts with his brother and finds a very large hat and sunglasses

to wear come sunday....

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Number two: we cut Willie Anderson. Was it not just last off season we let Eric Steinbach walk, untouched, to Cleveland without so much as an offer to keep him, using his money to franchise freakin' Justin Smith, who we let go of this off season (justifiably so)? We all knew Willie was getting up there in age. The injuries were almost sure to follow. Why in God's name did we not try to keep Steinbach, who is a premier lineman in this league? Then the whole cutting Willie thing wouldn't sting so much.

Yeah, that made a lot of sense didn't it? I mean, the Willie signing was stupid at the time, the cut now just makes it extra clear.

Once and for all, for God's sake, can the team hire somebody who has professional experience running a football team? This is a f*cking joke.

[jjakq27]

I believe Rowe is still eligible for the PS. If so, I expect him to reappear there.

Update: no, I guess not, at least per Ludwig. Oh well. 2004, 2005, 2006 drafts all stunk. Now 2007 starting to get a bit gamey as well...

I think Carson, Jeremi and kooistra are the only ones left from 2003 too.

[jjakq27]

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7002

I found this comment by Hobson very interesting. I always assumed that Marvin was a Rudi fan. Apparently not.

For whatever reason, Lewis has never been a big fan of Rudi Johnson and almost cut him the first season he was here in 2003. When he didn't practice for virtually a month this preseason, that was the final straw. But for four seasons he was as reliable and as durable as any back they've ever had.

Also this comment make the Brooks pick very puzzling. Was it a desparation move because of Odell's situation?

Brooks, the third-round supplemental pick from '06 who was supposed to replace Odell Thurman in the middle, was another guy Lewis was never enamored with and his fate seemed to be sealed in the spring when they moved him out of the middle to SAM.

A superb athlete with great speed, Brooks never showed them football instincts. They almost kept Maxwell ahead of him for special teams purposes, but Lewis said whenever he sketched out his 45-man Gameday roster he always had just six backers active.

[Spor_tees]

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=7002

I found this comment by Hobson very interesting. I always assumed that Marvin was a Rudi fan. Apparently not.

For whatever reason, Lewis has never been a big fan of Rudi Johnson and almost cut him the first season he was here in 2003. When he didn't practice for virtually a month this preseason, that was the final straw. But for four seasons he was as reliable and as durable as any back they've ever had.

Also this comment make the Brooks pick very puzzling. Was it a desparation move because of Odell's situation?

Brooks, the third-round supplemental pick from '06 who was supposed to replace Odell Thurman in the middle, was another guy Lewis was never enamored with and his fate seemed to be sealed in the spring when they moved him out of the middle to SAM.

A superb athlete with great speed, Brooks never showed them football instincts. They almost kept Maxwell ahead of him for special teams purposes, but Lewis said whenever he sketched out his 45-man Gameday roster he always had just six backers active.

Yeah like I said in another thread, it is very odd when Hobson makes a comment that is negative towards the front office or Marvin. I don't know if he changed it or you just left the part out, but he had it that basically the Bengals were cutting their most reliable runningback to keep one of their most injury prone and unreliable runningbacks in team history...Ouch Chris Perry, I guess Hobson isn't high on him.

I'm sorry but Marvin is an idiot...I honestly thought he was a token hire when Mike Brown first brought him in. Mikey was under a lot of scrutiny from various owners around the league saying he wasn't putting a good product on the field and shouldn't be able to share in the collective revenues unless he was willing to spend more money on the team. Then when he hired Marvin Lewis, it took some heat off his back. Marvin is horrible at clock management, horrendous at picking when to challenge a play with instant replay, and a gawd awful judge of talent. Too often than not he lets his personal views get in the way of a guy's talent and what is best for the team. There are a lot of employees I have had in the past or even co-workers that I didn't care for personally, but if they did a good job, I wasn't going to get rid of them. The day Marvin leaves or gets fired will be the day that the Bengals begin winning again. The only reason Marvin has been a winner with Cincinnati, is he was in the right place at the right time. When you have the weapons he has on offense, all of which were pretty much in place when he got there, you are going to win on talent alone. what is missing, and what is holding the Bengals back, is a good leader and motivator. Even Marvin himself came out and said he won't motivate the players, because he thinks they should be able to motivate themselves. Someone needs to lock Marvin in a dark room and force him to watch every tape ever made of Vince Lombardi and see what motivation is all about.

[COB]

In loosing Anderson they loose their heart

The heart of what? The most immature, disfunctional group of me-first guys in football, that's what. This team was screwed up. They're trying to unscrew it. Willie was a great guy, and I loved him as much as anybody. But if he was the heart of the team, and some kind of inspirational leader, I see absolutely no evidence of it.

The reason he didn't play in the last pre-season game is that his toe was messed up again. It's in the story headlined "Vet Vetting" on the Bengals website. Give me a break. Very limited action in the first three games, and he can't go already? His foot let him play very little last year, and it's going to let him play very little this year. He says differently, but when asked to put his money where his mouth is (in the form of a new deal that would allow him to make the same money but based on incentives he'll have to be healthy to reach) Willie said no thanks.

[jjakq27]

I tried to closely watch Marvin during the press conference. I am convinced that this was as much his doing as Mike Brown's. I think Willie is a year too late and Deltha was given opportunities on punt returns and defense this camp and didn't do much. But I think I still would have kept Rudi. Maybe they saw enough of Watson last year to feel comfortable with giving Perry the starter's job and letting Watson sub in when necessary.

As I said earlier I think this "overhaul" was a couple of years in the making. Problem is the 2005 season got in the way. Give the team credit for signing Rudi, Chad, Carson, TJ, Willie and Levi in an attempt to win it all. Unfortunately Carson's injury derailed what may be our only chance for awhile.

But I am still surprised to read the comments by Rudi and now Hobson about Marvin's "dislike" of Rudi. I really thought he considered him one of the dependable guys, especially during/after the demise of Corey Dillon.

[Spor_tees]

One point that no one is bringing up in regards to making Perry the starter and letting Rudi go, Perry is in a contract year. So how smart is it of the Bengals to showcase Perry this year only to watch him become a free agent and leave? I am sure they wouldn't franchise him, because he is no where near the top 5 in the league as a runningback. So lets take a shot in the dark and say he has a 1200 yard 8 TD year, then he gets a better offer from another team to leave Cincinnati. Then what? The Bengals have Kenny Watson and Dede Dorsey? They then have to go out and draft a runningback and we all know first, how terrible they are at drafting runningbacks, and secondly we all know how rarely a rookie runningback comes into the league and plays an entire rookie season. Bad, bad, bad decision by the Bengals.

[volcom69]

I agree this is one of Marvins doing and i think the Brown had little to do with this. Just makes you wonder know with all that happend if these guys (well some of them) will play hard for Marvin anymore. I really dont think some of them have and i wonder how much respect they have for him now.

[Spor_tees]

I agree this is one of Marvins doing and i think the Brown had little to do with this. Just makes you wonder know with all that happend if these guys (well some of them) will play hard for Marvin anymore. I really dont think some of them have and i wonder how much respect they have for him now.

Little to none. In my opinion he is acting like a guy that instead of trying to work with guys to solve the problems, he begins to throw his weight around to get respect. That might work with kids or college players, but in the NFL he is dealing with grown men and it doesn't work that way. This situation reminds me of what happened in Atlanta with De'Angelo Hall. The Falcons cut Grady Jackson despite the fact he was playing well, and Hall called them out on it. He said the team's front office was giving up on the season and it wasn't fair to him or any of the other players. How can a team expect guys to play hard for them, if the team front office itself is making moves that makes them less competitive then they were before? The goal of every team at the beginning of the season should be to win the Super Bowl...not to finish respectively with an 8-8 record. The football business goes both ways...and unfortunately some teams like the Bengals prefer to win with the least amount possible, and if they can't win the Super Bowl, an 8-8 record will keep fans interested and thinking that the next year. As long as what they are doing sells tickets and merchandise, things will never change.

[volcom69]

I think Marvin has made to many mistakes since the end of 2005 and lost control of that locker room. He let players walk up and down on him to many times and now it seems like he finally wants to change that and for me its little to late. When he first came here he had pretty much control of this team he could have let Justin walk and franchised Steinbach, or gave that extenion to steinbach instead of Willie, but he didnt. So i will put just as much blame on Marvin as i do Mike Brown, yea Mike might have the final say but its up to Marvin to get these guys to play 110% give it all they got play with heart and learn to play as a team, and to me he has failed to do so. I think with the recent cuts all he is trying to do is show he is done being everybodys friend its time to play if you dont wanna play then get out. Well i think all this should have been done a few years ago so for me its to little to late. If he gets these guys now to listin to him to play hard for him then will see, but if not then i think its time for him to go.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I agree this is one of Marvins doing and i think the Brown had little to do with this.

You may be right. If memory serves Marvin did say he was going to blow things up, and he certainly detonated a huge explosion here. I sure didn't see the fuse burning on this one!

[Sandwedge]

Sorry people, but all the conspiracy theories are completely funny as hell!! The Willie was the heart of this team is totally hilarious... First off Willie's play has declined the last 2 years where lastyear he completely became unable to be counted on because of injuries... Are you guys telling me you think he can be counted on for 16 games this year?? He stated he didn't play in Indy Thursday night because he forgot his "orthotics" ** Hint** his foot isn't right still... I just wonder how many people did listen to Willie in the lockerroom?? I'm guessing it was less than we think... I thank Willie for his time here and his probowl runs he will be one of the best RT we've ever had here....

As for Rudi and I guess to a certain extent Willie, I felt from the way they spoke that they thought it was their starting positions automatically and they really didn't need to put in the time with the team... Just my opinion... That is what this team needs to get rid of....

Honestly I don't think we are going to be worse off this season if those 2 are gone... Time and injuries had taken their toll and I think it was time to move on.. Nobody plays forever........

[ArmyBengal]

Upon further review, I'm more confused than ever with the Bengals. Who knows who's decisions these were ?? Can anyone say DEFINITIVELY that they were Mike Browns or Marvin Lewis' ?? I can speculate, but I don't know. That being said, maybe the moves were good, maybe they weren't, but I'm not happy about them. Call it emotions or whatever, but I'm not pleased.

After JJoe and Hall, we have who ?? Jones ?? Wow... After him, then who ?? I'll tell you who, no one that would be able to crack Clevelands sadass secondary and that is just pathetic. Here's to hoping Watson (not a starter), Perry (brokeass history), and Dorsey (unknown) make all the hype about developing the running game come to fruition, but I'm not comfortable. Are you ?? What about the O-line ?? After Stacey, who will probably leave after this season, we have who ?? A rookie if we don't move someone else over to cover and not having people play their natural position. Does anyone think this is smart in regards to protecting Carson ?? If nothing else, Willie provided depth THIS season. The TEAM gained nothing by releasing Willie. Mike Brown gained padded pockets.

It's sh*t like this that makes me question why I spend money on this team...

WHODEY !!!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Bengals cut Michael Myers and signed Frank Davis, G, from Detroit, and Saints DT Orien Harris.

Not sure what i'm missing on Myers, and why they cut him over Thorton, for anything other than team leader crap.

[HAPPYJAQ]

In loosing Anderson they loose their heart

The heart of what? The most immature, disfunctional group of me-first guys in football, that's what. This team was screwed up. They're trying to unscrew it. Willie was a great guy, and I loved him as much as anybody. But if he was the heart of the team, and some kind of inspirational leader, I see absolutely no evidence of it.

The reason he didn't play in the last pre-season game is that his toe was messed up again. It's in the story headlined "Vet Vetting" on the Bengals website. Give me a break. Very limited action in the first three games, and he can't go already? His foot let him play very little last year, and it's going to let him play very little this year. He says differently, but when asked to put his money where his mouth is (in the form of a new deal that would allow him to make the same money but based on incentives he'll have to be healthy to reach) Willie said no thanks.

One of the best posts I've read in a while. A few things about the releasing of these veterans.....

First, I was listening to WLW yesterday around cut time and a caller called in and said that he treats the Bengals and that 70% of their injuries are preventable. That got me to thinking that maybe these guys are not taking as good of care of themselves as they should. Muscle pulls/strains/tweaks, in particular, are mostly preventable. I think that Marvin is also growing tired of the selfishness of some of the players. It has to bother him that players like Rudi Johnson are on TV showing their cars and homes off, while they are either injured or ineffective during games and practices. Furthermore, Rudi is clearly on the downside of his career. Some are worried that he might come back this season like Jamal Lewis did in '07. Rudi is nowhere close to being in the Jamal Lewis category. Jamal's struggles at the end of his time in Baltimore were due mostly to an OL that got old fast, with some key players lost through FA, and and inept passing game. He was mostly healthy, which is the oontrary to Rudi, who has played behind a decent-enough OL with a great passing game. Teams knew what they were doing in not offering anything in a trade for Rudi. He's damaged goods.

Willie on the other hand is not the Willie of three years ago. He didn't look great against NO against the 3rd and 4th stringers and that most likely sealed his fate. This will be his 13th season in the league and the Bengals are in somewhat of a rebuilding mode (for that same reason, either T.J. or Chad will be gone next season) and his career has ran it's course here. The only move that is questionable to me is the Deltha move. Since David Jones is the starting gunner on ST's and nickel back, it basically came down to Deltha or Castille. I am nervous as hell about David Jones being matched up with the Hines Wards, Derrick Masons and others in the slot on 3rd down this year. He didn't look very good this preseason and I'm hoping they pick up another player. I was mildly surprised by Brooks, but he is another player who clearly didn't work very hard in practice or the offseason.

[ArmyBengal]

Started new thread about more roster moves made...

WHODEY !!!

[jditty47]

are all of you serious? I think this was the best cutdown in bengals history. i LOVE willie. I loved what Rudi brought for 4 years prior to last season as a stability but he had only 1 dimension and that declined drastically. And O'Neal - lets face it, he has declined on speed and is not as effective because his head isnt always into it. all the big parts we lost have had injuries that can linger for ever.

But this allowed us to get YOUNG. what marvin has been wanting, and he got to keep his players this time it seemed. Hebert, blackstock, mays all made the roster - performed all preseason.

Plus - we freed up 8 million this season in cap space. this equals another receiver which we need bad, plus about 7 million to resign our YOUTH for long term contracts. This means Housh possibly, Andrews hopefully, and Joseph. These guys are much more important to the big picture than Willie and Rudi.

After what ive seen from Perry, Watson, and Dorsey, i am more than happy with our running back by committee.

[TJJackson]

I dont think the rules allow us to talk contract with Andrews until after this season ends, so the freed up money will not help with him

Where it could potentially help is: Houshmanzadeh, Graham, Joseph, Ndukwe, and/or White. The two linebackers from Arizona also bear consideration through the year, as they both signed fairly short term deals.

I'd include Fitzgerald in that mix as well, except I am sure he will prefer to get a shot at starting over any money we could throw at him. It's sad we keep drafting QBs to develop and then let them go in a year or two, and can't manage to retain the veterans we acquire instead of developing our backups