Bengals Franchise Tag

[COB]

Today on the radio one commentator said he heard a rumor in Hawaii that the Bengals were considering tagging Smith again. I can absolutely see them doing it. With their biggest priority figuring out how to stop the run, they will probably be loathe to let go of a guy who can already do exactly that, and do it pretty well.

But with his sack numbers, they likely don't want to get into a bidding war that will probably involve 5 years.

So tagging him gives them the perfect opportunity to keep his run-stopping and his physical play, but also see if his lack of production was due to incompetent scheming (as Justin claimed when he said "it seems like our stuff never works"), or if it is because he just is not, and cannot be taught to be, a great pass rusher.

If they do it, hopefully Justin will have a better year. From what I saw, last year he was getting paid like a pass-rushing tight end, but playing like a run-stopping defensive tackle.

[Pidge]

What a waste of money. Heck, I'd rather let Justin go and work out a trade for Spears as the Dallas guy said a couple of days ago. Would certainly save some change.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Today on the radio one commentator said he heard a rumor in Hawaii that the Bengals were considering tagging Smith again.

I wouldn't be surprised, nor that upset. He plays with intensity, and that works for me.

[Ox]

Franchise tag due Feb. 21

Re-tagging DE Smith may be a possibility

BY MARK CURNUTTE | MCURNUTTE@ENQUIRER.COM

he Bengals and other NFL teams have until Feb. 21 to designate a franchise player in free agency.

Last year, the Bengals used the franchise tag on defensive end Justin Smith. He signed the one-year tender offer in May and was paid a salary of $8.644 million, the average of the top five salaries for his position.

There's a chance the Bengals might use the tag again on Smith, their most durable defensive player who is eligible for unrestricted free agency Feb. 29.

The tag is designed to allow teams to retain top players while

allowing the player to earn a top

salary.

Thursday was the first day teams could designate a franchise player. The Eagles used their tag - each team can use one per year on one player - on tight end L.J. Smith. His one-year tender offer is $4.5 million, the average of the top five salaries for tight ends in the league.

The designated franchise player may receive offer sheets from other teams, but the tag allows the original club to match the deal within seven days. If the original team chooses not to match, it receives two first-round draft picks from the new team as compensation.

There are a number of teams that could use their franchise tags this offseason on their own free agents: New England, wide receiver Randy Moss; Arizona, linebacker Karlos Dansby; Carolina, offensive tackle Jordan Goss; Kansas City, defensive end Jared Allen; Tennessee, defensive tackle Albert Haynesworth; and Seattle, cornerback Marcus Trufant.

The single-year franchise tender amounts are $10.7 million for quarterbacks, $9.5 million for cornerbacks, $8.8 million for defensive ends, $8.1 million for linebackers, $7.8 million for wide receivers, $7.5 million for offensive linemen, $6.5 million for running backs, $6.3 million for defensive tackles, $4.5 million for tight ends, $4.4 million for safeties and $2.6 million for kickers.

BENGALS UFAS: In addition to Justin Smith, the Bengals have three defensive starters eligible for unrestricted free agency: linebackers Dhani Jones and Landon Johnson and safety Madieu Williams.

Offensively, lineman Stacy Andrews can be an unrestricted free agent. The Bengals have made inquiries the past two months to re-sign some of these, offering essentially the same contract to Jones and Johnson. Efforts have been ongoing for more than a year to reach a multiyear deal with Smith.

MORE TAGS: Since 2004, NFL teams have used the franchise tag 30 times on 24 players. Six were tagged twice, according to The Tennessean newspaper of Nashville.

Ten of those 24 players eventually signed long-term contracts with the teams that designated them; seven signed with other teams when they finally hit the market.

Four of the franchise designees - including the Bengals' Smith - are on track to become free agents Feb. 29. Two franchise players were traded; one had the tag withdrawn and became a free agent.

CLEVELAND STARS: In their first eight years as a reborn expansion team, the Browns had only one Pro Bowl player, linebacker Jamir Miller following the 2001 season.

Six Browns are on the AFC team for the Pro Bowl today at Honolulu.

They are wide receiver Braylon Edwards and kickoff-punt return specialist Josh Cribbs, voted on the original squad. Then four Browns were added as alternates: rookie left tackle Joe Thomas, long snapper Ryan Pontbriand, quarterback Derek Anderson and tight end Kellen Winslow.

PACK BACKS McCARTHY: Mike McCarthy this past week became the highest-paid coach in Green Bay franchise history, signing a five-year contract extension that will pay him $4 million a season.

McCarthy's new deal - he was making $2 million a season - will coincide with the new contract signed Jan. 7 by Packers general manager Ted Thompson. They will run through 2012, according to The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel.

PATRIOTS QUESTIONS: New England, upset a week ago by the Giants in Super Bowl XLII, now face personnel decisions this offseason.

Wide receiver Donte Stallworth is due an $8 million option bonus before Feb. 29. He is likely to be released into free agency. Former Bengals wide receiver Kelley Washington, who learned to play special teams in New England after resisting kicking-game duty in Cincinnati, also is due a $4 million roster bonus that he's unlikely to receive. He will be a free agent.

GO NORTH: The Buffalo Bills will play one regular-season game in each of the next five years in Toronto, plus one preseason game there in 2008, 2010 and 2012.

The Bills are looking for added revenue because of the growing concern they share with the Bengals and other small-market teams, according to The Buffalo News.

Big-market teams Dallas and the New York Giants are moving into opulent stadiums in the next few seasons - which are expected to create millions in local revenue for the clubs, revenue that is not shared, though it increases the salary-cap burden on all teams.

Written, in part, with notes provided by other NFL beat writers

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...OL04/802100374/

[COB]

What a waste of money. Heck, I'd rather let Justin go and work out a trade for Spears as the Dallas guy said a couple of days ago. Would certainly save some change.

What, $4 million per sack doesn't seem like a bargain to you? If we just raise his pay to like $64 million, he'll rack up a sack a game.

[Pidge]

What a waste of money. Heck, I'd rather let Justin go and work out a trade for Spears as the Dallas guy said a couple of days ago. Would certainly save some change.

What, $4 million per sack doesn't seem like a bargain to you? If we just raise his pay to like $64 million, he'll rack up a sack a game.

Crying out loud. We have players with talent, we have players with desire. The only player I see both characteristics in is Carson. It's always one or the frickin other it seems.

Edit: Forgot TJ.

[HoosierCat]

Tag Justin again?

Sigh.

I was afraid they would do this. I've always liked Justin, but let's get real, it's time to move on.

[GregCook]

Tag Justin again?

Sigh.

I was afraid they would do this. I've always liked Justin, but let's get real, it's time to move on.

The Bengals have a big problem to solve this year, how to replace two number 1 picks? Willie is obviously on his last legs and Justin is a UFA. By tagging, or signing to a deal, Justin again, they are free to either sign Stacy 2 steps to a reasonable deal or draft a OT at #9. By the way, anybody see any NFL ready DE's in this years draft besides Chris Long, who will be Long Gone at #9?

[HoosierCat]

Tag Justin and all you do is guarantee the team does nothing in FA to get better on either side of the ball.

The annual Hobsonization of the salary cap is already underway on da site (see his latest column). Knock out the rookie pool, the injury cushion, the couple million we were over the cap last season, the RFA tags, etc. and you are already down to about $18 million in cap space. Knock off another $10 million for a Justin tag and you may have enough to squeeze in Stacy and Dhani. That's about it.

Oh, and for anyone (not me) hoping for a Chad trade, that would hike his cap hit for the year by $2-3 million, so I would say any Justin tag puts the kibosh on that idea.

[TJJackson]

We can get the same production we get from Justin from a street FA. Adios Justin, and please don't hit ShulaSteakHouse with your truck as you drive away from facility.

Take the 8 mil and reward a productive player or two - extend TJ, perhaps? Or Whitworth. Or Chinny. Maybe even Kenny, though he is getting a little long in the tooth.

[Bengals1]

Correct me if i'm wrong but if a player is tagged twice I seem to recall they're due a 20% raise. That would mean instead of wasting 8mil on Mr. Mediocrity we'd be wasting something in the neighborhood of 10mil this time around.

WTF!?!

[TJJackson]

If so, even more reason to let him go.

Mind you, it's nothing personal, and I understand he is a "high motor" which is something I value.....but he just isn't producing at a 8-10 million dollar level. If he were making 1-2 million a year, no problem....though I'd still like to see more production at that position.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Tag Justin and all you do is guarantee the team does nothing in FA to get better on either side of the ball.

The annual Hobsonization of the salary cap is already underway on da site (see his latest column). Knock out the rookie pool, the injury cushion, the couple million we were over the cap last season, the RFA tags, etc. and you are already down to about $18 million in cap space. Knock off another $10 million for a Justin tag and you may have enough to squeeze in Stacy and Dhani. That's about it.

Oh, and for anyone (not me) hoping for a Chad trade, that would hike his cap hit for the year by $2-3 million, so I would say any Justin tag puts the kibosh on that idea.

You know, other teams are able to amass more talent through creative use of the salary cap. What's the difference between them and us? Oh yeah, they hire football executives with demonstrated experience instead of the owner's family.

Are Thornton and Robinson gone yet? Part of the problem is we spend millions of dollars on guys that would be backups elsewhere.

[Bengals1]

Part of the problem is we spend millions of dollars on guys that would be backups elsewhere.

And spend millions of dollars signing other teams back-ups as well.

[ArmyBengal]

To much money spent on to little production. No pass rush whatsoever and for someone who's claim is the ability to stop the run, do we really need to rehash how our defense has done against the run during Mr. Smith's tenure as a Bengal ?? While I won't be stupid enough to claim that it's "all his fault" because it's not, he has CERTAINLY been a part of that equation. Time to move on and find somewhere else to spend 8.8 million or so !!!

WHODEY !!!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

These are the types of decisions losing franchises with poor personnel people make.

I also read where the Bengals' have been trying to get a long term deal done with Smith prior to this off-season.

I can't blame him for wanting a change and not taking another "Chad" contract.

In the right role/system he could possibly put up a lot better #'s.

I've also never seen where the Bengals' were ever good at stopping the run, rushing the passer, or having a good d-line since he's been here.

I can guess that he was the Bengal the Pittsburgh player told "an upcoming free agent for the Bengals," "why don't you leave those losers and come play for us, you're the type of guy that would fit in here."

He'd probably do well in Pitt in a 3-4 as a rotational guy. Here they ask him to do everything and he's worn out by half time.

[duus]

These are the types of decisions losing franchises with poor personnel people make.

I also read where the Bengals' have been trying to get a long term deal done with Smith prior to this off-season.

I can't blame him for wanting a change and not taking another "Chad" contract.

In the right role/system he could possibly put up a lot better #'s.

I've also never seen where the Bengals' were ever good at stopping the run, rushing the passer, or having a good d-line since he's been here.

I can guess that he was the Bengal the Pittsburgh player told "an upcoming free agent for the Bengals," "why don't you leave those losers and come play for us, you're the type of guy that would fit in here."

He'd probably do well in Pitt in a 3-4 as a rotational guy. Here they ask him to do everything and he's worn out by half time.

Two quick comments:

1. I too wish they would take a page out of the book that successful franchises use ... namely, allow high-priced players to hit the road. He'll be 29 this September. Good franchises would NEVER give this guy a contract of any significant length. And seldom will you find those same franchises putting the tag on him 2 years in a row at this point in his career.

2. Pittsburgh would not sign this guy. See comment number 1. They will not pay a guy this type of money for multiple years at the age of 29. Won't happen. That's why they are successful.

Is what it is. I want to see this franchise start to use the formula of franchise first and player second. Sign guys only until they are 30'ish and then part ways regardless of how hard that might be ... regardless of how much of us fans might not like it. Oh, there could be the exception ... but those guidelines tend to be followed by the good franchises. Wish we followed 'em.

[bengalsfansince68]

Sign guys only until they are 30'ish and then part ways regardless of how hard that might be ... regardless of how much of us fans might not like it. Oh, there could be the exception ... but those guidelines tend to be followed by the good franchises. Wish we followed 'em.

Somebody give Duus some Gold Star and the beverage of his choice.

As Marty Brenneman says, "Put a Gold Star by that one".

I have been making this point for years and it is always quietly discounted.

In the NFL, the downhill slide for most players begins at 30.

It is when production begins to slip, injuries begin to mount and the paycheck is at its highest.

Seems foolish to follow such a plan.

It's a young man's game and 6 to 8 years of playing it exacts a toll on all players.

Way to step up and say the right thing, Duus.

[HoosierCat]

I don't think you can have a hard-and-fast rule that once you pass 30, you're out. It's going to depend on the player, the position, and the situation the team is in (rebuilding, contending, etc.). Case in point: who here wants to see TJ leave after this year?

But in any event, I don't think overspending on thirty-somethings is a big Bengals problem. The only example is Willie, and most observers had very mixed feelings about that.

[Pidge]

Sign guys only until they are 30'ish and then part ways regardless of how hard that might be ... regardless of how much of us fans might not like it. Oh, there could be the exception ... but those guidelines tend to be followed by the good franchises. Wish we followed 'em.

Somebody give Duus some Gold Star and the beverage of his choice.

As Marty Brenneman says, "Put a Gold Star by that one".

I have been making this point for years and it is always quietly discounted.

In the NFL, the downhill slide for most players begins at 30.

It is when production begins to slip, injuries begin to mount and the paycheck is at its highest.

Seems foolish to follow such a plan.

It's a young man's game and 6 to 8 years of playing it exacts a toll on all players.

Way to step up and say the right thing, Duus.

Would you two like a room?

It is a sound principal and one that this franchise desperately needs to follow. However, it is not as cut and dried as that. The real key is to have a system in place into which a "type" of player can easily fit into. This means that decent to good players can be replaced without a huge disruption or loss of production to the team as a whole.

This system also allows a franchise the flexibility to jettison guys who aren't yet 30+ but whose cap is becoming an issue (see Edge, Samuels, although he might end up back in NE, etc).

This is the important part though - this is done so that the vets, even the 30+ players who are standouts can be kept. A good player is a good player, regardless of age.

Our route isn't yielding much success but blindly tossing aside players who might have been born before a certain date won't simply right the ship either.

The correct balance is needed and unfortunately all 3 (seemingly) of our FO guys just don't have the time and/or the inclination to implement the system nor the resources needed to reach that balance.

[Pidge]

I don't think you can have a hard-and-fast rule that once you pass 30, you're out. It's going to depend on the player, the position, and the situation the team is in (rebuilding, contending, etc.). Case in point: who here wants to see TJ leave after this year?

But in any event, I don't think overspending on thirty-somethings is a big Bengals problem. The only example is Willie, and most observers had very mixed feelings about that.

Much more succinctly put.

RE: the bolded part - that is not our problem. Our problem is overpaying for players that are under 30. At least it seems that way to me. Justin, I'm looking at you here. Or overpaying for backups from other teams.

[sparky151]

Tagging Justin would be monumentally stupid. Unfortunately I'm not sure the Bengals will refrain from doing something monumentally stupid.

[bengalsfansince68]

Uh fellas, I think you miss my point. I never said anything about a hard and fast rule on anything and I did not say that there are no exceptions. I said that for most players, the production begins to slip, the injuries become more frequent and they take longer to heal at about the age of 30. Most players guys, not all. A player's age does make a difference. It is part of the equation and, to me, an important part when considering signing players. Justin will be 29 this season and is a decent player to have on our team. He does play and practice every day. He does play hard and smart. He is, for the most part, not a presence in the backfield. I don't see him creating many violent collisions to stonewall the RB at the line nor do I see the QBs having to run from the guy. Precious little disruption in the backfield from Justin throughout his career. If I could sign Justin for a couple of years at a reasonable price, I would. Bengals can't do that. Justin is a cap buster and there is little that the Bengals can do to change that. Our choice is to acquiess to his demands for a huge long term contract or we tag him and grossly overpay for one more year. In my opinion, Justin is not a good fit for either option.

Were I the GM, I would thank Justin for his seven years here and wish him well in Oakland.

[COB]

Our choice is to acquiess to his demands for a huge long term contract or we tag him and grossly overpay for one more year.

Yes, agreed. I believe part of what the Bengals are doing is trying to force an agreement. He wants big money, we want to pay what he is truly worth. If he wants the signing bonus and long-term deal, he has to be realistic. Surely he wants to avoid going into this season one bad injury away from never making another dime from football. A long-term deal at his true value could come out of this. Then again we could be pissing him off so badly, ala Fanaca, that he'll play another year and go anywhere but here. And that comparison is the only one you'll ever hear me make between Alan Faneca and Justin Smith.

[Pidge]

Our choice is to acquiess to his demands for a huge long term contract or we tag him and grossly overpay for one more year.

Yes, agreed. I believe part of what the Bengals are doing is trying to force an agreement. He wants big money, we want to pay what he is truly worth. If he wants the signing bonus and long-term deal, he has to be realistic. Surely he wants to avoid going into this season one bad injury away from never making another dime from football. A long-term deal at his true value could come out of this. Then again we could be pissing him off so badly, ala Fanaca, that he'll play another year and go anywhere but here. And that comparison is the only one you'll ever hear me make between Alan Faneca and Justin Smith.

Honestly though, there will be a couple of other franchises out there more than willing to overpay Justin to satisfy many of their fans by getting a high price, 4th overall pick FA. So, he stays and we overpay him, he stays because we tag him or he leaves and is overpaid elsewhere.

Tagging him would be the worst possible outcome, IMO. $10MM. Just thinking about it makes me nauseous.