Hobson's Choice: Front 7 overhaul?

[Ox]

Hobson's Choice: Front 7 overhaul?

December 20, 2007

Q: Where do we need help the most on defense? It's easy to say we are ranked 20-something in the pass so we need secondary help. They may not always be accurate though. The problem may be somewhere else. In your opinion, leaving statistics aside, what positions do we need to upgrade on defense? And who may we not see back next year?

--Matt W., S. Vienna, OH

MATT: Even though they may lose free safety Madieu Williams in free agency and strong safety Dexter Jackson turns 31 the first week of training camp, they should be fine with rookies Chinedum Ndukwe and Marvin White. Throw in cornerback Johnathan Joseph and Leon Hall, and the oldest of those four just turned 24 two weeks ago. So the future appears solid in the back end.

But with Justin Smith coming off the franchise tag and Bryan Robinson completing his 11th season and three-year deal, the Bengals could very well be looking for some defensive ends, obviously of the pass-rushing ilk. Jonathan Fanene and Frostee Rucker are going to be here but they're not pure pass rushers.

And you should always be looking for a young, big run-stuffing and anchorable defensive tackle. Defensive tackle John Thornton is in the last year of a deal paying him nearly $4 million and always seems to be on a possible cut list, but he's steady and reliable.

Linebacker would seem to be a concern with David Pollack's broken neck a never-ending question, weaksider Landon Johnson is a free agent, and middle linebacker continues to be a thorn in the side.

They can't count on Odell Thurman and even though he's been in the league two years, Ahmad Brooks has finished just 12 games and it looked he might be OK but you just don't know.

Then there is always the 3-4 question. They may deem it's time to move to a three-man line base only if they think they've got enough linebackers. But only if Thurman came back, you would think.

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Q: Is it just me, or is there a serious attitude problem with Chad, TJ, and Chris? Don't get me wrong, I think they are absolutely great players, but I was just sickened watching the San Fran game (and the last few games in general). Even worse than the way the team played, was the attitude of our top receivers. Every time they dropped a pass (and there were clearly plenty of drops) they were more interested in flopping around and whining to the refs for an interference flag than getting back out there for another play. If they spent as much time owning up to their mistake as they did whining, the team would be in a much better position. Owning all aspects of the game is a very common theme across all positions on teams that have historically done very well. Are we going to ever see anyone other than Carson and the O-line accept responsibility (and own not just the good parts of their game)? Who should be showing them what whiny children they have recently looked like and driving home that they need to accept responsibility? Also, why is this not getting across?

--Kyle, Storrs, CT

KYLE: I agree with T.J. on this. Everything is tied into the record. In '05, the pundits called it passion, grit and intensity. Now it's whiny, selfish and immature. Is it less than perfect? Yeah. Just like most places. Such as Denver's Brandon Marshall getting into it with his receivers coach on the sidelines last week.

Is it the national calamity the way it's been portrayed? No. There are people in the room saying that the reports of Johnson and Houshmandzadeh trying to take over the team have been terribly exaggerated.

In Cleveland, Bill Belichick was stubborn and unimaginative. In New England, he's a new age genius. Last year at this time, Randy Moss was a locker room werewolf eating his young and making Terrell Owens look presidential. This year Moss is Jerry Rice.

But Belichick didn't change. Moss didn't change. Neither have Chad and T.J. They were like this in '05 when they won the division, '06 when they were one win from the playoffs three times, and '07 when they pretended instead of contended. I mean, when has T.J. not had something to say to an official?

What gets by at 11-3 doesn't get by at 5-9.

Nick P. of Salt Lake City also weighed in on this and ripped the leadership of Chad and T.J., and their inability to take their teammates to the next level.

But that's exactly where they took them in '05. Maybe a 4.5-yard running back would make them all Ray Lewis. That mind-boggling plus turnover differential makes leaders of us all.

(By the way, does Ray Lewis take over the team, or does he exert leadership? If you're a Super Bowl MVP, it's leadership. If you're 5-9, it's a coup).

In conversations with T.J. and Carson on Wednesday, we talked about the reports that said his receivers are constantly yelling at Palmer and that teammates resent them trying to take over the team. Palmer shook his head and said, "They haven't yelled at me. I'd yell back at them," and someone who should know said at practice this week that all three were seen joking around the heater together.

During the Thursday media session Houshmandzadeh saw Johnson calling to Palmer about a gag as he walked by the receivers' lockers and he said, "Hey, we're supposed to be mad at you."

"Oh yeah," Palmer said. "You guys always yell at me."

Houshmandzadeh may have a closer relationship with Palmer (Vegas trips, dinners), but Chad and Palmer don't shy away from each other.

And yet another guy who is in the locker room every day said the reports are nowhere near accurate and another said that, if anything, Chad has been less edgy than '05.

Told that people didn't like the image on national TV Saturday night of Houshmandzadeh and Johnson by themselves on the bench instead of conferring with Palmer, T.J. fired back, "If you're not on the same page, then you confer with Carson. If he sees something you didn't see, then you confer with Carson. If he throws it one way and you run the other way, then you confer with Carson. We're on the same page. We're just not getting it done."

Everyone, including Chad and T.J., have admitted they fly off the handle too often and need to control their emotions. That's not new.

But that has more of an impact on the field than in the locker room. Both teammates and coaches would like to see it curtailed because it affects not only their best players on the field, but it can unnerve some of the other guys that look to them. Even though the outbursts pass like a summer storm. But you can't get back any of those snaps washed away in the emotion.

Again, this is something that Chad and T.J. have admitted before. But now, the losing comes after a national TV blowup between Palmer and Johnson back on Oct. 1 against the Pats, and so now they're-a-cancer-and-you-have-to-dump-them perception takes on a life of its own that has dwarfed reality a bit.

What Johnson has to do is relax and treat the fourth quarter like the second quarter because he needs to settle down and make some big plays. The drops late for TDs against Buffalo and the Niners and the fumble against Arizona in the red zone have done more to hurt than anything in the locker room and that comes only from a guy dying to succeed but needing to be more in control.

Which is a long way from being a locker-room cancer. The kid's got a big heart. Asked if it was like the Pickens and Dillon rage days, a seasoned locker room observer offered, "Not even close."

No, not perfect. And the short fuses have to be addressed (and Marvin Lewis talks about them all the time).

But not exactly anarchy, either.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6547

[HoosierCat]

And you should always be looking for a young, big run-stuffing and anchorable defensive tackle.

Hobson is absolutely right, you should.

The Bengals never do, but you should...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Everyone, including Chad and T.J., have admitted they fly off the handle too often and need to control their emotions. That's not new.

Hobson's such a bore.

[bengalboomer7]

He makes some good points. And with all those defensive names he put up there, marvin might finally be forced to do something on the defensive line.(Fingers Crossed extremely hard)

[COB]

Everyone, including Chad and T.J., have admitted they fly off the handle too often and need to control their emotions. That's not new.

Hobson's such a bore.

No kidding. I can't figure out if he's just a mark for the Bengals public relations department, or if he is the Bengals public relations department.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Everyone, including Chad and T.J., have admitted they fly off the handle too often and need to control their emotions. That's not new.

Hobson's such a bore.

No kidding. I can't figure out if he's just a mark for the Bengals public relations department, or if he is the Bengals public relations department.

He's Mikies b**ch.

[ArmyBengal]

Any retard can look at this defense and come up with the conclusion that we need a DT to anchor this defense around. Is it a good point ?? Yes. Could my 7 year old niece have come up with the same point ?? Yes.

Give me DE, DT, LB, and OL and I will be happy !!!

WHODEY !!!

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Any retard can look at this defense and come up with the conclusion that we need a DT to anchor this defense around. Is it a good point ?? Yes. Could my 7 year old niece have come up with the same point ?? Yes.

Give me DE, DT, LB, and OL and I will be happy !!!

WHODEY !!!

That's right. On day 1, we need 2LB, 2DT, 2DE, and one OT.

We do have 7 first-day picks, right?

[membengal]

Hobson wrote with respect to the yelling/shenanigans/what-not:

"What gets by at 11-5 doesn't get by at 5-9."

Um, maybe it shouldn't have been allowed at 11-5 either? You allow childish behavior, you get childish behavior.

[bengalboomer7]

Hobson wrote with respect to the yelling/shenanigans/what-not:

"What gets by at 11-5 doesn't get by at 5-9."

Um, maybe it shouldn't have been allowed at 11-5 either? You allow childish behavior, you get childish behavior.

He's right, though. I bet you can pull up two year old threads with praises to the passion that now is a nuisance. Winning absolves alot.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Hobson wrote with respect to the yelling/shenanigans/what-not:

"What gets by at 11-5 doesn't get by at 5-9."

Um, maybe it shouldn't have been allowed at 11-5 either? You allow childish behavior, you get childish behavior.

He's right, though. I bet you can pull up two year old threads with praises to the passion that now is a nuisance. Winning absolves alot.

Well you don't pout and cause distractions when you're celebrating. That argument is so lame. Chad and TJ just aren't very professional on the field. And I DO remember plenty of complaints about Chad's half time show during the '05 playoff game. He doesn't handle adversity well at all. That said I really don't have a problem with TJ because he's consistent and more of a complete WR - unlike Chad.

And as others eluded to above, Hobson's "solutions" were things any 10 year old could come up with.

As most of us know, the problem starts at the top with the owner/GM/president/king, who is a freakin' loser born into wealth, and doesn't know enough about football to run an NFL franchise, let alone a high school program.

[Pidge]

Hobson's Choice: Front 7 overhaul?

December 20, 2007

Jonathan Fanene and Frostee Rucker are going to be here but they're not pure pass rushers.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=6547

No sheet Hob nob. Get! Out! Blistering insight from Hobson once again. ZZzzz

Couldn't help but notice your sig, Ox. A close friend of mine is sure that the voomun on the right is Lucy Pinder.

[Kazkal]

Any retard can look at this defense and come up with the conclusion that we need a DT to anchor this defense around. Is it a good point ?? Yes. Could my 7 year old niece have come up with the same point ?? Yes.

Give me DE, DT, LB, and OL and I will be happy !!!

WHODEY !!!

That's right. On day 1, we need 2LB, 2DT, 2DE, and one OT.

We do have 7 first-day picks, right?

-1 DE We have Jumpy and were fine with him he's what in his 4th year and is only 24?

-1 DT Though I'd like to see 2 DT's taken but only one high. Peko will be fine starter just need someone next to him and add to our rotation...

LB:Pretty much,I hope landon is resigned but still ?'s at MLB and SLB

OT:Meh Whitworth should be moved to RT he would be best option then draft a guard even if stacey is resigned need future replacement for bobby

[HoTbOy]

What caught my eye was the letting MWilliams go in FA, Are those 2 rooks able to handle the load, I believe you have to make an offer to him so if he does leave we get some kind of compensation...I also agree with letting JSmith test FA...

[Kazkal]

Really don't want to see madieu or Landon go few of only solid& reliable D players we've had over the years.

[ArmyBengal]

"Letting" Justin test FA ?? Don't just let him, send him on his way !!! I have always sat back and hoped he would become something more than he has. Regardless of how you look at him, Stud, Solid, or Bust, it's time to move in a new direction and show Mr. Smith the door !!! To much money for to little in return...

WHODEY !!!

[BengalBax]

Everyone keeps harping on the defense. Guys...really let's look into this. We have some young, exciting defensive players. Hall has played well for a rookie, JJoe is finally coming on. Ndukwe and White seems to have tons of potential. Geathers will be a force (just keep him as a pass rusher next year Marvin, please.)

What worries me is the offense. take away that Cleveland game and week 1 Baltimore game. Since the we have scored 21, 13, 20, 38*, 13, 21, 21, 27*, 35*, 10, 19, 13, and 19. Now this is our high voltage offense? Let's look deeper.

In the 21 point outburst against Buffalo, 7 was on a kick return TD.

In the 38 point game against the Jets, 7 was on a pick 6 by JJoe.

In the 21 point game against Baltimore, all were on FG's.

This offense is hurting guys. We have a mis-mash line right now. Our stud RB is playing awful. Watson, a journeyman RB, has outplayed him on EVERY level. Our stud WR is dropping balls hitting him in the chest and cries like a girl. Our 3 reciever is one step from being banned from the league. And now, our golden boy QB is playing like Drew Bledsoe. I HONESTLY think we need to draft OL, a pass catching TE, and a new reciever.

[jjakq27]

You've got to admit that the defense was a big problem early in the year. On offense I'd like to start with a capable Center.

[Kazkal]

Offense does need some help (mainly in the Oline) but still need some front 7 help on defense....I'm quite happy with our DB's on defense young but alot potential

[ArmyBengal]

And the stretch where the defense was "playing so well" was against who ?? NO ONE !!! Does the offensive line need some help ?? Of course they do. Are their concerns with our WR's and RB's ?? Yes, but the O-line is the biggest of those issues. Regardless of that, all the "young studs" aren't going to be sh*t is there isn't someone around them making them better. Geathers can't do it by himself. Others are hurt and suspended. This defense still blows. I like the youth in our secondary, but the front 7 still has to be the main area to be addressed...

Besides haven't we already proven we can't win with a top 5 offense ?? Time for a change !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Pidge]

Everyone keeps harping on the defense. Guys...really let's look into this. We have some young, exciting defensive players. Hall has played well for a rookie, JJoe is finally coming on. Ndukwe and White seems to have tons of potential. Geathers will be a force (just keep him as a pass rusher next year Marvin, please.)

What worries me is the offense. take away that Cleveland game and week 1 Baltimore game. Since the we have scored 21, 13, 20, 38*, 13, 21, 21, 27*, 35*, 10, 19, 13, and 19. Now this is our high voltage offense? Let's look deeper.

In the 21 point outburst against Buffalo, 7 was on a kick return TD.

In the 38 point game against the Jets, 7 was on a pick 6 by JJoe.

In the 21 point game against Baltimore, all were on FG's.

This offense is hurting guys. We have a mis-mash line right now. Our stud RB is playing awful. Watson, a journeyman RB, has outplayed him on EVERY level. Our stud WR is dropping balls hitting him in the chest and cries like a girl. Our 3 reciever is one step from being banned from the league. And now, our golden boy QB is playing like Drew Bledsoe. I HONESTLY think we need to draft OL, a pass catching TE, and a new reciever.

Whilst I agree that the offence is stuttering I'd like to see us strengthen both lines first. Then we can fart about with the other things. We're painfully average on both sides of the ball and it isn't due to lack of individual talent in the secondary or at the skill positions on offense. IMO. If we spent our entire draft taking linemen and takles/guards and getting some real depth there, I'd be content. Get some frigging LBs in via FA too. Young, hungry players hopefully.

Then again, this is all difficult enough when you have more than one guy and his best friend's uncle scouting all these players. The coaching doesn't help much either.

Sigh.

However, I share your optimism about the youngsters in our secondary.