Patriots Videotaping "cheating" incident

[BengalByTheBay]

It's funny the discrepancy in reactions to this. On local SF news this morning the story was about what a swift and "harsh" penalty it was. Gotta give it to the league's PR dept., they get out there fast. I suppose most people will focus on the fact (I heard this -- don't really know if it's true) that $500,000 is the highest monetary penalty the league can levy. Whatever. I wonder if Kraft will try to pay it for him somehow? It's clear to me that this was a Pats policy. No way Belichick goes all rogue and does this without the club's knowledge.

[HairOnFire]

It's funny the discrepancy in reactions to this. On local SF news this morning the story was about what a swift and "harsh" penalty it was. Gotta give it to the league's PR dept., they get out there fast. I suppose most people will focus on the fact (I heard this -- don't really know if it's true) that $500,000 is the highest monetary penalty the league can levy. Whatever. I wonder if Kraft will try to pay it for him somehow? It's clear to me that this was a Pats policy. No way Belichick goes all rogue and does this without the club's knowledge.

I think the NFL moved swiftly because they want to blunt any further interest in the story by giving away the ending.

Frankly, I think that sucks and isn't likely to work. So I have to repeat my earlier question....what happens if and when more information leaks out? For example, an article in yesterdays Los Angeles Times touched on the Patriots well known history of paying hotel employees to search the meeting rooms used by visiting teams for any printed coaching material, such as a carelessly discarded list detailing the first 10 to 15 plays that teams typically script and distribute to players the night before a game.

Many observers find the above actions to be shaky enough, but it's the things that are rumored to be true, but still unproven, that really cross the line. In short, if nothing of value can be found in meeting rooms or from trash collections...those same hotel employees are suspected of breaking into the rooms of visiting players and coaches....selling whatever items of value, including playbooks, to the Patriots.

[COB]

I effing hate the Patriots now more than ever.

[duus]

Whether the Patriots cheated in any of the Superbowls, AFC Championships, or whatever is complete speculation. It's unfair to expect Goodell's punishment to reflect on that speculation, and I'm glad it didn't. All he can do is punish them for what he knows occured (regardless of suspicions he and others may have had about them previously). They cheated against the Jets in their season opener this season.

For that one incident, a first round pick is enough to make me move foward without a peep.

Your words are exactly how I feel. I too hate the Patriots, do not like their coach, etc, etc, etc. BUT ... one thing I think that needs to stop in the modern day is where people have a tendency to use speculation as fact. Do I think they likely cheated in the past? Sure. But you simply cannot take being caught in a single game as evidence of the past. Likely? Yes. Proof? No. The punishment must match the evidence. I look at this punishment as being for this single occurrence ... and on that basis, it is nice and harsh. Good.

[rwalling]

It would be nice if Kraft grew some stones and punished his cheating coach that just grossly embarassed his team and the league.

Having said that, Arthur Blank (Mike Vick's boss) and Mike Brown (10 convicts boss) havne't set a great precedent either!

[HairOnFire]

The punishment must match the evidence. I look at this punishment as being for this single occurrence ... and on that basis, it is nice and harsh. Good.

Perhaps, but I insist it's only harsh on the surface....and likely to impress only those who don't bother to look closer. In fact, Hoosier may feel that John Clayton's call of BS was of the gentle sort but I find it remarkable that Clayton went as far as he did. And the same is true for longtime Belichick apologist Peter King. Both scribes are high profile observers of all theings NFL, and both were quick to conclude that the penalty isn't nearly as harsh as it appears. Both concluded that the Patriots and Belichick got off remarkably wasy. And both picked up the flag that I've carried from the start, that Belichick should have been suspended due to the seriousness of the cheating, but also to set precedent in the event it happens again.

And one last point about setting precedent. Goodell stated flatly that he felt Patriot owner Robert Kraft knew nothing about the cheating...yet saw fit to fine him the maximum amount possible. Now ask yourself why he did that.

[jjakq27]

http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/ord...ll_whether.html

Billy is looking a little "Tricky Dickish" these days.

[delhole]

"I also apologize to Patriots fans and would like to thank them for their support during the past few days and throughout my career," Belichick said. "As the commissioner acknowledged, our use of sideline video had no impact on the outcome of last week's game. We have never used sideline video to obtain a competitive advantage while the game was in progress."

Well that makes everything SOOO much better

At least he finally aknowledged his teams actions.

[The PatternMaster]

Whether the Patriots cheated in any of the Superbowls, AFC Championships, or whatever is complete speculation. It's unfair to expect Goodell's punishment to reflect on that speculation, and I'm glad it didn't. All he can do is punish them for what he knows occured (regardless of suspicions he and others may have had about them previously). They cheated against the Jets in their season opener this season.

For that one incident, a first round pick is enough to make me move foward without a peep.

Your words are exactly how I feel. I too hate the Patriots, do not like their coach, etc, etc, etc. BUT ... one thing I think that needs to stop in the modern day is where people have a tendency to use speculation as fact. Do I think they likely cheated in the past? Sure. But you simply cannot take being caught in a single game as evidence of the past. Likely? Yes. Proof? No. The punishment must match the evidence. I look at this punishment as being for this single occurrence ... and on that basis, it is nice and harsh. Good.

Well what about the fact that in the past other teams have complained to the NFL, confiscated video footage, and kicked the same guy out off the field for doing the exact same thing. Belicheck is a repeat offender who got off with a slap on the wrist, while Odell was a repeat offender who got the book thrown at him.

Those are the facts.

[redsfan2]

A couple of things have ocurred to me over this whole thing ... in no particular order, but just based on what the new commish has done so far and his rationale.

Fines coach 500k ........ does anyone NOT think that the team will pick up the tab on this ????? Secondly, The Commish has said before that levying fines hasn't proved to be an effective way to correct behavior due to the amount of money made as opposed to the amount of the fines. That's why he uses suspensions.

Fines team ......... see above.

Loses 1st round pick ........... Now this would get their attention if not for as noted by Hair that its an easy fix via FA ....... not to mention that they have 2 picks in the first round.

Punishment is commensurate to the offense and will change the behavior as well as deterring others.

Belicheck absolutely flaunted the vioalation .... admitted to doing nothing wrong other than mis interpretting the rules .... and now has shown no signs of remorse or even accepting responsibility.

In my own opinion, I don't see this as consistent with treament the players have received ...... Not saying they ( players ) didn't deserve what they got .... they DID. Just saying its a double standard.

This is what would have sent a message ( in my opinion )

Team - fine 1 mil.

Team - Lose first day picks ....... allllll of them.

Coach - fine 1 mil.

Coach - suspension & no contact with the team or organization for 1 year

Review after 1 year and reinstate if all provisions have been met to the satisfaction of the commish.

My guess is that we'd be seeing a whole different level of reaction from the team compare to the so what attitude they're displaying at this point.

[HoosierCat]

I think the NFL moved swiftly because they want to blunt any further interest in the story by giving away the ending.

Yup.

Frankly, I think that sucks and isn't likely to work.

No "likely" about it, it's not working, because the ending sucked. The consensus of the sports punditocracy seems to me to be congealing around the "NE/Belichick got off too easy" viewpoint, with both of sportsline's talking heads, Prisco and Judge, joining the likes of King and Clayton. Goodell needed to stomp hard on NE, so that everybody would write, "justice was served, let's get back to the game." But from what I can glean, it looks like Goodell chickened out on even a light suspension, probably for fear of ticking off Bob Kraft. Stomping on Mikey and the Bengals is one thing, Brown has no pull with the other owners. But Kraft was a big part of the group that got Goody enthroned in the first place.

Bad move. Now, this thing is going to linger. More stories will be written, like the espn.com piece today in which recently suspended coach Wade Wilson wonders why he got fined 1/3 of his salary and suspended five games when the NFL found he wasn't involved in distributing HGH to players, just using it himself -- while Belichick gets busted for cheating and gets fined about 12% of his income and no suspension.

Clumsy move by Goodell. He only wounded the story, he didn't kill it.

[Green 66]

I agree that the punishment metered out was not harsh enough. My reasoning in this is that the violation calls into question the quality of the product on the field that fans pay big money to watch on Sunday afternoon and Monday night. I find it somewhat puzzling that a league that is very overt in controlling of all products associated with it from T-shirts to video games would not come down like the hammer of god when the fairness of the system is challenged. All in all this amounts to only a slap on the wrist for the Pats.

Mike Green

Waynesville Ohio

[HairOnFire]

Chris Mortenson was just on ESPN's Outside the Lines and claimed that Goodell is "absoluetly stunned" by the reaction to the punishment. Mort said that he had spoken to Goodell who admitted that he knew there would be debate about whatever punishment he handed down, but never anticipated the "avalanche" of media responses that feel the punishment is far too lenient. Mort went so far as to opine that the negative response to the level of punishment had..."reached an overwhelming concensus".

Mort also claimed that the chief source of complaint, Goodell's decision to not suspend Belichick, was reached after consulting several NFL head coaches...each claiming that the fine and loss of a draft pick would be enough. However, Mort claimed that Goodell clearly didn't speak to enough coaches, describing the reaction amongst head and assistant coaches around the NFL as a "growing storm."

BTW, Belichick's defense of his actions was openly mocked...with Mort pointing out that it wasn't possible to have a different interpretation of a very detailed black & white rule.

Mort also pointed out that the loss of a draft pick is likely to have no impact on Belichick whatsoever as it was widely speculated long before the scandal broke that this was going to be his last season coaching the Patriots. The scandal only makes it more likely.

Finally, Mort said that he had spoken to Wade Wilson, the Cowboy coach who was suspended 5 games for using HGH...said to have been taken to combat sexual impotency. Wilson said Goodell's decision to not suspend Belichick was a clear sign of a double standard (Mort agreed) and Wilson had already written a letter asking Goodell to remove his suspension.

[The PatternMaster]

The curse of Odell Thurman has been cast upon Roger Goodell, hahahahaha

Until you do right by me everything you do is going to crumble, Mr. Goodell - Odell Thurman

[Tasher]

Awesome Video and song by Ryan Parker!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EU1O-hGxgg

[jjakq27]

I swiped this off of a Patriots board. I found it quite interesting.

"Jack is right, that stat was incorrect. I believe the variable is same team, same QB. Here's some data.

2001:

Lost in the first game (and played again):

Jets/Dolphins/Rams. Played all three again. Won all three games, including Super Bowl.

Beat (and played again):

Colts/Bills

2002:

Lost in the first game (and played again):

Dolphins. Won the second matchup.

Won the first game:

Jets/Bills. Lost to the Jets, beat the Bills.

2003:

Lost in the first game:

Bills (31-0). Won the 2nd game (31-0).

Won every other game vs. two-time opponents.

Jets/Titans/Colts/Dolphins.

2004:

Played twice and lost the second game:

Dolphins.

Played twice and won the 2nd matchup:

Colts/Bills/Jets/Steelers

2005:

Lost twice to teams that they played twice:

Dolphins/Broncos

Beat Jets and Bills in only other double matchups."

[HairOnFire]

... recently suspended coach Wade Wilson wonders why he got fined 1/3 of his salary and suspended five games when the NFL found he wasn't involved in distributing HGH to players, just using it himself -- while Belichick gets busted for cheating and gets fined about 12% of his income and no suspension.

Wilson made a very solid point about how Goodell's punishment does a far better job of holding the Patriot franchise accountable rather than the individual person most responsible for the actual cheating.....something that makes almost no sense whatsover when you read Goodell's remarks about how he believed Robert Kraft had no knowledge of the cheating.

[HairOnFire]

The curse of Odell Thurman has been cast upon Roger Goodell, hahahahaha

That's not as crazy as it first sounds. Goodell's credibility just took a major hit largely due to the incredibly harsh way he's treated players whose actions have no impact on the game itself, and the weak response to a head coach who cheated in such a blatant manner that there was ZERO doubt about his guilt or intent.

And BTW, Belichick isn't doing Goodell any favors by arrogantly refusing to answer ANY questions about the cheating.

[HoosierCat]

Tony Dungy: Bill Belichick = Barry Bonds.

[The PatternMaster]

Tony Dungy: Bill Belichick = Barry Bonds.

Good for Tony, I'm glad someone of his stature final spoke out. Get em Tony, get em!!!!

[membengal]

Chris Mortenson was just on ESPN's Outside the Lines and claimed that Goodell is "absoluetly stunned" by the reaction to the punishment. Mort said that he had spoken to Goodell who admitted that he knew there would be debate about whatever punishment he handed down, but never anticipated the "avalanche" of media responses that feel the punishment is far too lenient. Mort went so far as to opine that the negative response to the level of punishment had..."reached an overwhelming concensus".

Mort also claimed that the chief source of complaint, Goodell's decision to not suspend Belichick, was reached after consulting several NFL head coaches...each claiming that the fine and loss of a draft pick would be enough. However, Mort claimed that Goodell clearly didn't speak to enough coaches, describing the reaction amongst head and assistant coaches around the NFL as a "growing storm."

BTW, Belichick's defense of his actions was openly mocked...with Mort pointing out that it wasn't possible to have a different interpretation of a very detailed black & white rule.

Mort also pointed out that the loss of a draft pick is likely to have no impact on Belichick whatsoever as it was widely speculated long before the scandal broke that this was going to be his last season coaching the Patriots. The scandal only makes it more likely.

Finally, Mort said that he had spoken to Wade Wilson, the Cowboy coach who was suspended 5 games for using HGH...said to have been taken to combat sexual impotency. Wilson said Goodell's decision to not suspend Belichick was a clear sign of a double standard (Mort agreed) and Wilson had already written a letter asking Goodell to remove his suspension.

Thanks HoF. A ton.

Great summation. I didn't think to set the DVR to record OTL, today, and wish I had.

The write-up is much appreciated.

I am not sure what I am enjoying more, that Belichick has been shown to be a cheater, or that Goodell has confirmed himself as an arbitrary and carpricious wanne be enforcer with no common sense.

Either way, I am delighted.

[jjakq27]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Avlr...o&type=lgns

Great article from Yahoo....some of the crap is reminiscent of the good old days between Paul Brown and Art Modell.

[HairOnFire]

Great article from Yahoo....some of the crap is reminiscent of the good old days between Paul Brown and Art Modell.

Wow, that was a fascinating recap filled with plenty of stuff I'd never heard before. I'm still not sure I understand why Belichick felt so betrayed when Mangini accepted the Jets head coaching job...as any head coaching offer is a very rare thing...but I'd say Mangini just won their personal grudge match as completely and convincingly as he lost the opener against the Patriots.

It's a blowout.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I effing hate the Patriots now more than ever.

I never "hated" the Patriots. Didn't love them either. I just respected them, and now thats history! I totally believe there's much more to this scandal than what's been uncovered already, and certainly more than what we've heard so far. This far exceeds all the trangressions of all the Bengals players combined IMHO!

[jjakq27]

I effing hate the Patriots now more than ever.

I never "hated" the Patriots. Didn't love them either. I just respected them, and now thats history! I totally believe there's much more to this scandal than what's been uncovered already, and certainly more than what we've heard so far. This far exceeds all the trangressions of all the Bengals players combined IMHO!

I agree with your assessment Billy. It's kinda like when they bust someone for doing something wrong and then everyone seems to have a story of their own about it. And before you know it there are five or ten stories instead of one.

I can't remember exactly where I read this but I read that the Pats had people go through the trash in the meeting rooms of the visiting team's hotel to look for any discarded papers or notes about plays or gameplans.

I have spent some time checking in on the KFFL.com message boards today and it is amazing how many people are pissed at Mangini as if he and BB have some kind of sacred oath or bond since they worked together. They are wishing all kind of bad things upon him and also saying how this is a minor incident and it will pass and that Mangini's career is ruined for being a snitch while BB and his legacy will suffer no ill effects from this.

Or course I have dipped into the conversations a few times but they get really upset and irrational when I try to reason with them. It is actually very funny at times.