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HoosierCat

Week 16: Ravens @ Bengals

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From Morrison's article today - these graphs are really interesting to me:

Quote

 

3. Hendrickson upped his season total to 13 sacks, which is half a sack shy of the Bengals’ official record set by Carlos Dunlap in 2015, although the team recognizes Coy Bacon’s total of 22 in 1976, which was six years before the league made sacks an official stat.

4. Ogunjobi had 1.5 sacks, which tied his season high and raised his 2021 total to seven, leaving him third on the team behind Hendrickson and Sam Hubbard (7.5). This is just the third time in franchise history the Bengals have had at least three players reach seven or more sacks in a season, the others occurred in 2017 (Geno Atkins 9, Carl Lawson 8.5, Carlos Dunlap 7.5) and 1984 (Reggie Williams and Eddie Edwards 9, Ross Browner 8).

5. Defensive tackle B.J. Hill has 5.5. If he can get 1.5 more, the Bengals will join the 2017 Jaguars and 2013 Bills as the only teams in the past 13 years to have four players with at least seven sacks.

 

 

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Yup. Bengals had 17 sacks in 16 games last year, this year they have 40 through 14 games. That’s just an outstanding improvement.

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2 wins to 4 wins to 8 wins (w/ a chance of more this year). He's not going anywhere. And...he should not be going anywhere. He's earned another year for sure. 

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Yeah, even if they lose out and miss the playoffs (still very much a distinct possibility) Zac is going nowhere. 

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36 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Baby is a hater as Jamison was before him, none of these guys see the Bengals as anything more than a stepping stone to a better assignment.  Everyone of these ESPN desk jockeys seem infected by the prevailing anti-Bengals ESPN sentiment.

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2 hours ago, membengal said:

Literally injuries have destroyed a deep group. They had six good ones. Now they have two. Not sure why you think drafting more would have fixed that. They have FOUR recent draft picks in their top 6 (Wilson, ADJ, Pratt, Bailey) - they haven't ignored the position. 

I am not suggesting the team draft "more" linebackers.  I think they certainly draft enough and injuries have absolutely wrecked the depth of the position.

My argument has been (and continues to be) the (hopeful) quality of the player and when they address the position in the draft.
I think there are differences in how "ignoring the position" can be viewed.
There's ignoring the position by simply not drafting enough players at that spot, which I don't think happens with any frequency, if at all.
Then there's ignoring the position by not addressing the spot early in the draft, which I think this team has done at various times and positions.

There are position groups which obviously don't need to be drafted early (kickers, punters, long snappers, etc.)
There was a time in our no so distant past that the team hadn't drafted a CB in the first round.  An OG in the first round. Things like that.
This team hasn't drafted a LB earlier than the 3rd round since Rivers (first) 2008 and Maualuga (second) 2009.  So going on 13 years.

That TO ME is a form of ignoring the position.  Obviously that could be debated and I acknowledge that.
I like Wilson and view him as above average, but not a game changer.  Pratt is solid, nothing special.  ADJ isn't anything special either.
We need guys like them for sure, but we haven't had an impact, play making, LB since Burfict and the only reason we got him was he was a head case.

I want to see them address the position before the third round.  Does that equal guaranteed impact? No, but I want to see them make the effort.
Again, none of what I'm saying is immoveable thought, set it stone, it's just my viewpoint.  13 years speaks for itself.

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LBers are a disfavored group for drafting in early rounds (or at least the first round) under most modern NFL thinking.  We dodged a massive bullet when the Steelers leaped up to draft Bush - who has been a genuine bust. Taking LBers in 2nd and 3rd rounds (which they have done in recent drafts) is precisely how you address that room.  

 

I have an issue with your take because they HAVE made an effort. Wilson a 2nd round pick. Pratt a 3rd round pick. ADG a 4th round pick. Those ARE premium picks at LB aimed at addressing that spot. AND those guys were good this year (before two of them got hurt). I don't know that I can hang the 10 years on ZT and staff prior to their arrival - but since ZT and crew got here they have spent a lot of draft capital on the LB room...

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That's cool, I have no issue with someone having an issue with my take.  That's why I said it was debatable.

Logan Wilson was a 3rd round pick and don't disagree that a quality LB can be found outside of the first two rounds.
My only thought is that I would like to see them make an effort sooner.  Does that mean that a LB should be taken in the first or second every draft? 
Of course not, no one is suggesting that.

Would you guess that to be the case for going on 13 years ??

I will present a debate variable admitting I haven't gone back to review more in depth.
Maybe there simply hasn't been value at the position when the Bengals go on the clock.  Certainly VERY possible and explain the 13 years.
If that's the case, cool.  I can wrap my head around why that may have occurred.

My take is that the team has seemed to struggle finding those impact LB's more often than not and think our defense would greatly benefit from that.
The 13 years since the effort has been made in the first two round could be for more than one reason.
It's just sticks out as odd.  That's all.
 

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You are right, my bad, 3rd round on Wilson. I mean, FIRST PICK OF THIRD ROUND, so, a really high valuable pick...

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I just ran a mock draft (we pick 25th if the draft were tomorrow under the current standings) and just for Army, I took Dean. The Utah LB went to the Lions at 24 right ahead of us in that TDN engine mock.

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36 minutes ago, membengal said:

You are right, my bad, 3rd round on Wilson. I mean, FIRST PICK OF THIRD ROUND, so, a really high valuable pick...

No issue, I may very well be nit picking.
I would just love to see this team with a Micha Parsons type of player on the linebacking corps.
Hell, two thirds of that player would be amazing.

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14 minutes ago, membengal said:

I just ran a mock draft (we pick 25th if the draft were tomorrow under the current standings) and just for Army, I took Dean. The Utah LB went to the Lions at 24 right ahead of us in that TDN engine mock.

Thanks Brother !!

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1 hour ago, ArmyBengal said:

I am not suggesting the team draft "more" linebackers.  I think they certainly draft enough and injuries have absolutely wrecked the depth of the position.

My argument has been (and continues to be) the (hopeful) quality of the player and when they address the position in the draft.
I think there are differences in how "ignoring the position" can be viewed.
There's ignoring the position by simply not drafting enough players at that spot, which I don't think happens with any frequency, if at all.
Then there's ignoring the position by not addressing the spot early in the draft, which I think this team has done at various times and positions.

There are position groups which obviously don't need to be drafted early (kickers, punters, long snappers, etc.)
There was a time in our no so distant past that the team hadn't drafted a CB in the first round.  An OG in the first round. Things like that.
This team hasn't drafted a LB earlier than the 3rd round since Rivers (first) 2008 and Maualuga (second) 2009.  So going on 13 years.

That TO ME is a form of ignoring the position.  Obviously that could be debated and I acknowledge that.
I like Wilson and view him as above average, but not a game changer.  Pratt is solid, nothing special.  ADJ isn't anything special either.
We need guys like them for sure, but we haven't had an impact, play making, LB since Burfict and the only reason we got him was he was a head case.

I want to see them address the position before the third round.  Does that equal guaranteed impact? No, but I want to see them make the effort.
Again, none of what I'm saying is immoveable thought, set it stone, it's just my viewpoint.  13 years speaks for itself.

They have  devalued the position draft wise during Zimmer/Pauly G era.  I heard that directly from Pauly G during a draft party after the pick WJ3.  They placed higher value on edge players with thinking a similar LB could be had later. 

 

I’m sure Tobin is still hanging on that.  Although there was an LB from Texas A&M they loved for round 2 but he didn’t last til the pick. 
 

But that was at a time they got a lot miles out of undrafted Burfict. 

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23 minutes ago, membengal said:

I just ran a mock draft (we pick 25th if the draft were tomorrow under the current standings) and just for Army, I took Dean. The Utah LB went to the Lions at 24 right ahead of us in that TDN engine mock.

So he does. Well, that would be interesting. I went three rounds deep and added an RB (Walker) and TE (Ruckert) just to aggravate TJ…

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I think TE is reasonably likely in the early going next draft. They have nothing behind Uzomah and he’s a free agent come March. I’m his biggest Stan around here but sportrac projects him getting a 3-year, $32 million deal, which is an awful lot for a 29-year-old guy who is solid but not a game breaker.

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15 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

I think TE is reasonably likely in the early going next draft. They have nothing behind Uzomah and he’s a free agent come March. I’m his biggest Stan around here but sportrac projects him getting a 3-year, $32 million deal, which is an awful lot for a 29-year-old guy who is solid but not a game breaker.

I like the Wydermyer kid from Texas A&M.

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18 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I like the Wydermyer kid from Texas A&M.

He was on the board right there with Ruckert when I picked. Went with Ruckert when I saw TDN’s player comp for Wydermyer (Jermaine Gresham).

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I haven’t paid attention to that to be honest.
Who was Ruckert’s comp ??

Being a Buckeye fan, I love the kid and want him to do well, but don’t think his stats from this season, in comparison to past, account for his ranking.

Meaning, had he came out last season most had him pegged at a 7th round to UDFA talent. An additional 10 catches and 130 yards, when his TD’s dropped from last year and now he’s a second rounder ?? Not hating at all. I guess that’s just how evaluations go.

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33 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I haven’t paid attention to that to be honest.
Who was Ruckert’s comp ?? 

Friermuth.

 

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Our defense is going to get tested big time regarding defending TEs in the next two weeks.  I hope they have shored up the issues discovered during the SF game.  Andrews and Kelce (along with Kittle) are the best in the business.

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