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HoosierCat

Bengals Statement on BLM Protests

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Our society is being ripped apart by racism. 
 

Wisconsin is just the latest in a long string of unjustified assaults and killings.  Phone cameras have captured for all to see that which the black community has been saying for decades - “we’re treated differently than others.”

 

Kenosha - the police shoot an unarmed guy in the back.  Then when people complained and demonstrated, a kid walks past the police with a rifle and murders 2 more people.  What do you expect the black community to say?  Thanks?  The people there are pissed off and they’ve got pretty good reason to be pissed off, in my opinion.  
 

As far as the NBA, they’re just using their platform to make a statement.  Kushner came out today and said, “they’re lucky they’re rich enough to be able to take a night off work.”  That’s really the message to his crowd, isn’t it?  “these uppity black guys are lucky we let them make enough money to stop working for one night.”  No thought to the message they’re trying to convey, the substance of what they are communicating.  And guess what Jared Kushner and every racist fuckhead like him, it’s not luck.  Every one of those NBA players has worked his ass off his whole life (except Melo) to attain a status in our society that gives him a voice that we’ll actually hear.  
 

COB out motherfuckers!!

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I'll be frank:

I understand mem's frustration. I am not going to blow up on anyone here, because it isn't going to help anything. But he represents a mindset that has become so exasperated by right-leaning political philosophy that patience is a much more difficult perspective to adopt than it once was. It's quite simple: there is massive, incontrovertible evidence in front of the faces of white America that something is very, very wrong...

And they continue to bury their heads in the sand. Athletes may or may not overestimate their ability to affect change, but I absolutely support them for trying. Reducing this to a matter of personal arrogance is not just disrespectful to the cause they represent -- it is an extremely arrogant view itself.

This isn't a white face:

https://www.outkick.com/whitlock-milwaukee-bucks-black-athletes-can-no-longer-afford-to-just-do-it/

Not a good idea to paint individuals with 1 brush.     There's a counter point and it is valid.    If people want to brush it off and not listen that's their business. 

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7 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Not a good idea to paint individuals with 1 brush.

Then why do you keep doing it?

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Just now, Stripes said:

Then why do you keep doing it?

Not sure what you are talking about.   Quote it.  Then I can respond.

 

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Calling it "right wing terrorism" serves little purpose other than to add an inflammatory political bent to something that [while still generally delineated along the political spectrum] is better just called what it is: white supremacy.

I am quite sure you don't and wouldn't contribute in any direct or intentional manner to that. It is possible that you, and indeed that I, contribute to it inadvertently through our reception of world events, voting behavior, and our willingness to engage in meaningful dialogue. Do you listen when someone expresses an experience to you that does not align with your own experience and/or your own view of society? Do you lend your support? Do you adopt a balanced mindset when you assess controversies erupting from police shootings, or are you inherently inclined to trust one side first? Have you dug into the statistical evidence supporting left-oriented viewpoints from the most neutral avenues available? Have you engaged in introspection regarding what it means to be white and how that may have influenced the trajectory of your life to this point? Have you been dismissive of those who would call for your attention? Have you attributed internal mechanisms to the failings of those who may have failed for external factors instead?

I am not suggesting I know the answers to any of these questions. But folks on the right, in my experience, have simply not spent enough time exploring these kinds of ideas and it has left them, yes -- blind -- to the nature of the society they criticize. That may or may not be you. I cannot pretend to have any idea. But if you cannot honestly say yourself, without a moment's trepidation or self-doubt, that you have measured up appropriately -- then yes, you have in some way contributed to white supremacist violence. Just like I have.

We have to be better.

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16 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

 

Not sure what you are talking about.   Quote it.  Then I can respond.

 

10 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

Oh know please don't punish us professional athletes!  We'll denounce racism!  Just don't take away your playoffs,  please.    LOL.

 

AMPHAR, quotes like this are textbook examples of painting a group of people with one brush. This does not show me that you have any idea what you're talking about; indeed, it tells me that you approach this controversy with a viewpoint already embedded in your mind that you apply to the controversy. I mean, what the hell even is this shit? What kind of point do you think you're making here? What wisdom can possibly exist in this bullshit?

Let me clear: I don't think you're an idiot. I don't think you intend to do harm. But you do it anyway -- both to yourself and to anyone that may be indirectly impacted by such an absence of introspection. There is no respect here, none, for what these professional athletes are trying to do. Even if you don't think the movement is warranted or that their participation therein is appropriate -- you've still given zero thought, at least per what I have seen in this thread -- to their actual motivations. And it's egregious. Instead of attempting to understand them on any meaningful level, you have dismissed them as arrogant rich people. That is not an intelligent perspective, and it is beneath you.

Jason Whitlock doesn't make it right either. That is precisely the sort of approach that makes "the left" want to blow a gasket. "Look, here's a black person saying a thing, look, look at it right now!"

Great. There are quite a few more black people around the sporting world and thousands upon thousands outside it delivering a different message. Are you going to listen? If not, that's your problem.

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I think this is where white folks so often get hung up on this issue, because they feel they are being personally attacked.

There are two predominant definitions of "racism", and white folks tend to only be considerate of one of them (the one that is kinder to them):

1.) Racism -- the prejudicial hatred of or disdain for people of other races; a sense of the superiority of one's own race

2.) Racism -- a systemic and societal form of oppression driven by socioeconomic inequalities that favor one race and disadvantage other races

I don't think you're #1. I don't think I am #1. That doesn't mean, however, that we aren't inadvertently guilty of propping up a world where #2 reigns.

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31 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I think this is where white folks so often get hung up on this issue, because they feel they are being personally attacked.

There are two predominant definitions of "racism", and white folks tend to only be considerate of one of them (the one that is kinder to them):

1.) Racism -- the prejudicial hatred of or disdain for people of other races; a sense of the superiority of one's own race

2.) Racism -- a systemic and societal form of oppression driven by socioeconomic inequalities that favor one race and disadvantage other races

I don't think you're #1. I don't think I am #1. That doesn't mean, however, that we aren't inadvertently guilty of propping up a world where #2 reigns.

Very much this. I usually think of it as the difference between being racist and *a* racist. I have been and likely continue to be the former at times and I’m trying to be better. The latter is someone who isn’t trying. And for the record I don’t think anyone here is *a* racist.

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1 hour ago, Stripes said:

AMPHAR, quotes like this are textbook examples of painting a group of people with one brush. This does not show me that you have any idea what you're talking about; indeed, it tells me that you approach this controversy with a viewpoint already embedded in your mind that you apply to the controversy. I mean, what the hell even is this shit? What kind of point do you think you're making here? What wisdom can possibly exist in this bullshit?

Let me clear: I don't think you're an idiot. I don't think you intend to do harm. But you do it anyway -- both to yourself and to anyone that may be indirectly impacted by such an absence of introspection. There is no respect here, none, for what these professional athletes are trying to do. Even if you don't think the movement is warranted or that their participation therein is appropriate -- you've still given zero thought, at least per what I have seen in this thread -- to their actual motivations. And it's egregious. Instead of attempting to understand them on any meaningful level, you have dismissed them as arrogant rich people. That is not an intelligent perspective, and it is beneath you.

Jason Whitlock doesn't make it right either. That is precisely the sort of approach that makes "the left" want to blow a gasket. "Look, here's a black person saying a thing, look, look at it right now!"

Great. There are quite a few more black people around the sporting world and thousands upon thousands outside it delivering a different message. Are you going to listen? If not, that's your problem.

Stripes,   It was the NBA players and league that chose to unify under the BLM slogans and messaging.  My comments are not an example of taking individual messages and painting them as one.  That was IN FACT their choice.

Given that choice unfortunately they intentionally or unintentionally aligned themselves with various radical messages.  That's on them.   If you align your message with political activists then you have to own the results.

I think you have incorrectly assumed "white faces" are intentionally ignoring massive amounts of evidence.    That is a massive generalization given the fact BLM messaging resembles propaganda at times. 

At the end of the day I reject the NBA players message because it aligns with BLM that supports defunding the police, violent protests and has bullied elected officials.    I don't think their policy demands and actions align with their group name.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stripes said:

I think this is where white folks so often get hung up on this issue, because they feel they are being personally attacked.

There are two predominant definitions of "racism", and white folks tend to only be considerate of one of them (the one that is kinder to them):

1.) Racism -- the prejudicial hatred of or disdain for people of other races; a sense of the superiority of one's own race

2.) Racism -- a systemic and societal form of oppression driven by socioeconomic inequalities that favor one race and disadvantage other races

I don't think you're #1. I don't think I am #1. That doesn't mean, however, that we aren't inadvertently guilty of propping up a world where #2 reigns.

I can't figure out why that would be.  

A few months ago a black NASCAR driver was informed by his crew that a noose had been placed in his garage.  That story broke real quickly.   When it could have been very easily confirmed to be not true.

A black actor flat out paid people to attack him and made up a story about MAGA hat wearing racists.

A Covington Catholic teen was standing at Washington Monument and approached by a Native American drumming.  Well that was completely misrepresented and that kid got paid.

A black basketball player was informed by his people that a racial insult was spray painted on his LA property.  No evidence was given to police so they could investigate.   No evidence was found by police.   It didn't stop this basketball player from exploiting the situation and drawing comparisons to Emmet Till.

This is just recent stuff.    OJ Simpson was even painted as victim police racism despite him be coddle by the LAPD for years covering up him abusing his wife that eventually led to him slashing her throat.

Is there really that much mystery as to why the conversation of race doesn't go very far? 

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30 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Is there really that much mystery as to why the conversation of race doesn't go very far? 

You won't let it go far if you insist on citing these arbitrary anecdotes and not the wealth of evidence contrary to those anecdotes (which are themselves subject to various interpretations to which you have a bias).

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24 minutes ago, Stripes said:

You won't let it go far if you insist on citing these arbitrary anecdotes and not the wealth of evidence contrary to those anecdotes (which are themselves subject to various interpretations to which you have a bias).

You mean pointing out that the race card does get played? 
 
Myles Garret hit dumb ass Steeler QB in the head with his own helmet.  I found it hilarious.   Yet when confronted with his actions.  Oh the N word was used.  Well that’s convenient isn’t it?

The QB with a black center and head coach is just throwing out N bombs?  No one hears it?  If they did hear it they covered it up? 
 

The ease in which the race card is played isn’t arbitrary.   
 

Micheal Bennett flat out lied about the Vegas cops. Proven by video.

The whole hands up don’t shoot, proven false by black members of the Obama administration. 

Greg Popovich recently restated a lie about Micheal Brown being shot in the back. Proven false by autopsy. 

There is steady stream of misinformation from race peddlers.  Why?  

If there is this wealth of evidence you keep referring to, then why is there so much manipulation of obvious facts?
 

 

 

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No one is asking you to.

What they are asking is that once you know that bias exists, you working on eliminating it.

The challenge is that you have some people who believe the biases and/or want to use them for their own ends (this is where your Nazis come from), and others who insist that the bias doesn’t exist (“I’m not racist! I don’t see color!” Etc.).

As to how the theory applies to real life:

Quote

Although we all have or act on implicit biases in some manner, studies conducted in this country conclude that it tends to disproportionately affect African-Americans and other minorities of color more than other groups.

In an excellent essay on the topic available online, implicit-bias expert and lawyer Kimberly Papillon of Oakland, Calif., notes that the same part of the brain that activates when we feel fear, threat, anxiety or distrust also is at play when Caucasian participants viewed African-American male faces versus Caucasian male faces in the race portion of the landmark Implicit Association Test. The test can be taken by anyone online. 

As Papillon points out, subjects who demonstrated more bias against African-Americans, as measured by the Race IAT, had “matching higher amygdala or fear reactions to African-American male faces.”

“Nationwide, statistically significant samples show that 70 (percent) to 87 percent of Caucasians in the United States demonstrate bias against African-Americans on the Race IAT,” Papillon writes. 

More known “shoot/don’t shoot” studies show that the overwhelming majority of players — less so trained law enforcement personnel — made more mistakes and fired at unarmed African-Americans than Caucasians.

“Though the subjects in this study were required to make a choice ostensibly to protect themselves, they displayed a more aggressive reaction and willingness to injure when faced with the African-American,” Papillon notes. “Most importantly, these responses were based on implicit biases, unknown to the subjects. In fact, most of the subjects consciously held strong values for fairness and egalitarianism and abhorred the notion of racial bias and discrimination.”


https://www.twincities.com/2014/09/02/ruben-rosario-chris-lollie-recognized-the-racial-bias-that-exists-all-around-us/

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If there is true total lack of awareness, then you're right -- addressing the matter is impossible.

That's kind of the point of all this. If a vast swath of the white population does not realize this is happening or that they are doing it, then they need to be made aware so that they can address it. And too often, when folks try to spread that awareness it just falls on deaf ears. Instead of listening, they throw up their defense mechanisms: "WHAT? I am NOT racist."

They miss the point entirely, and nothing changes.

This doesn't mean there are never counterexamples where race is made an issue needlessly, per AMPHAR's examples. Those represent such a puny minority of the total array of systemic inequalities, however, that they serve only to distract from the larger problems that are very real and very harmful. And they feed the narrative that allows white people who feel threatened by this dialogue to protect themselves from it.

Instead of getting pissy when someone tries to show us ways we can improve ourselves, we can be adults about it and try to be better.

Try taking that implicit association test, Army, and see how you turn out. It's pretty easy to find online. I have no idea how you'll perform, but it could prove illuminating. The test isn't perfect (I literally work in the field of cognitive science, and I could cite a few shortcomings, but it's beside the point). It is a decent enough starting point though toward at least showing people that they may have these implicit biases. When you then apply those biases to matters of criminal justice, it's suddenly very easy to see why the police might be fucking things up more often than they should be (and it's a phenomenon well researched across the social sciences, even if evidence isn't always 100% without exception). That's just criminal justice too. These implicit biases affect just about everything in society from the top down. Then when you account for the historical factors stemming from 400 years of oppression, you end up with a highly imperfect reality that cannot change if half the population refuses to acknowledge the problem even exists.

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17 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

You mean pointing out that the race card does get played? 
 
Myles Garret hit dumb ass Steeler QB in the head with his own helmet.  I found it hilarious.   Yet when confronted with his actions.  Oh the N word was used.  Well that’s convenient isn’t it?

The QB with a black center and head coach is just throwing out N bombs?  No one hears it?  If they did hear it they covered it up? 
 

The ease in which the race card is played isn’t arbitrary.   
 

Micheal Bennett flat out lied about the Vegas cops. Proven by video.

The whole hands up don’t shoot, proven false by black members of the Obama administration. 

Greg Popovich recently restated a lie about Micheal Brown being shot in the back. Proven false by autopsy. 

There is steady stream of misinformation from race peddlers.  Why?  

If there is this wealth of evidence you keep referring to, then why is there so much manipulation of obvious facts?
 

 

 

This is so true. If you have a different opinion then somebody else right away your racist. People have and always will use the race card and it will never go away! 
 

I personally want to know why nothing was done to that poor black cop who put years of service into his job and was shot and killed by dumb ass protesters! Why was nothing done or said for him??  Guess we pick and choose who we call hero’s in this world anymore. 
 

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His killer wasn't a protestor. He was a member of a far-right militia. Part of the boogaloo movement hoping to start a race war. That's why. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/06/16/accused-killer-of-california-cops-was-associated-with-right-wing-boogaloo-movement/#4e59fecf59bd

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also, thanks to Stripes for walking folks through this. 

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Quote

 

“Difficult can mean a lot of different things,” coach Zac Taylor said. “It can mean saying something to somebody that you’re not sure how they’re going to interpret it. Difficult can be saying something that is deep and personal to you that maybe you haven’t shared with a lot of people, an experience that you’ve had or a learned experience that you haven’t had that you’re not embarrassed you didn’t have, but you’re almost embarrassed to say the words like I haven’t experienced the things that you’ve experienced. Hearing you talk creates a much better understanding of some things I’ve never thought twice about.

“I’m not talking about myself personally. Some of the experiences that our players share, and I’m not going to name the players’ names, because there are plenty of them, but those are things I never thought about growing up in Norman, Okla., or living in the places I’ve lived. I’ve never thought twice about some of the things these players have to think about when they just go about their daily lives and their cousins and their friends and families back in their communities. That is something that has impacted me personally. I’ve thought of myself as aware and understanding, but until you hear firsthand very raw stories then you really don’t know unless you’ve been in those situations.”

 

Coach gets it. That's a good acknowledgement of his own white blindness. We all have it, in this country, who were born white. The first step is to recognize it. Like Hoosier admirably shared from a painful reflection from his past.  Army, you have good friends who are black - that's great. And awesome that they can come over to hang with you. But when they leave after a night of chilling with you, they carry far more danger on their backs driving home late than you would. Simply based on their skin color. BLM marches are about that. I have marched in some this summer. So has my son. Are we radicals? 

You remember Coley Harvey from his time here, solid dude. Here's this from him (follow the thread for the whole story):

And that's setting aside the flat executions of black persons by police. Extra judicial killings are...murder.  There is not a death sentence under any law in America for whatever it was that George Floyd allegedly did. Or the guy in Charleston, SC that was gunned down from behind. Etc. Etc. 

The basic experiences of our black friends and citizens in this country has NEVER been equal to the white experience. Doesn't matter your own personal views or actions, you and I and Stipes and Hoosier etc benefit from our whiteness. BLM is the latest effort to try and put that out in the open.  To cut crap like this from continuing to happen:

Peace. 

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I’m pretty sure you’re right. I’m pretty sure what they want is for us to listen to them. That is after all the whole point of all the protests and boycotts across the various sports leagues: sending a message that the shootings have to stop. I’m not the messenger, I just support what they are saying. I’d do the same if they were Asian or Hispanic or Native American or any other group whose lived experience I don’t have. But we’re here and now and this is the issue on the table. That it’s somehow controversial makes me sad.

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Listen. Or don't listen.  And good luck finding the so-called extreme left carrying assault rifles into statehouses and standing there with them over legislatures. Just, laughable. Or good luck finding the kinds of killings that have been underway for awhile from white supremacists in this country (and by awhile - since 1866 - and, of course, before that, when this country built itself on slavery). 

White. Privilege. It's not your fault or mine but it's there:

 

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Yeah, nice job listening. 

One can understand and acknowledge some of the structural problems in this country and the advantages with being born white without hopping making it about oneself personally. 
You still benefit from the color of your skin in this country - a random win at birth.  BLM is asking people to reflect on the institutions and structures of that and find a way to change it.

here’s one based on your experience you might have run into and didn’t know it based on your past marriage:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theroot.com/interracial-couple-s-home-receives-higher-appraisal-aft-1844857147/amp

Here’s a twitter link-through to same column:

you said you wanted to talk, so I am setting aside my rage over how things are with regard to race in this country to try and talk. Stripes reminded me of the better way with his posts.  But let’s let this be the end for my part. 
 

again, peace.

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There isn’t a “both sides” to racism. It’s not political (or shouldn’t be).

since you all don’t get the Athletic , here’s a piece of Morrison’s daily camp wrap up article:

 

Audible

Because there was limited action on a short-yardage day and so much interesting, moving content coming from Taylor and Hopkins after practice, let’s skip 3 up and 3 down in favor of Zoom coverage.

Best of the daily Zooms

Hopkins on what he would tell people who might say ‘stick to football’ …

“My reaction to those people would be: ‘I don’t think it is a political statement to say that the color of my skin should endanger my life.’ That’s what I would say to those people. I would say that even if you consider it a political statement, then it is something that I’m not willing to step away from. When I lay down these pads, when my playing days are over, I cannot lay down the color of my skin. I cannot make myself less of a threat. I’m going to be a large Black man. My kids will probably be large and Black. So it is not something I can walk away from. I can’t step away from it. It doesn’t disappear. I cannot hide it. And if it makes you uncomfortable that it’s something that is important to me, I would ask that you would just take a step back and really think, what would you do if the roles were reversed? Or if you just happen to be in the group that so happens to have so many horror stories right now. Would you rest and say, ‘Well, I’m just gonna play football. I’m just gonna leave it behind.’ It’s not something that I think is easily done, nor is it something that I think should.”

Hopkins on what society could learn from an NFL locker room …

“It would be great if we could take the locker room into the real world. The issues that are currently being shown in our country and are currently being highlighted and addressed in our country, they aren’t new. But they are also issues that I’ve never seen in this locker room or a locker room that I’ve been fortunate enough to be in. In football, people are judged by merit (and) what you do. You earn your reputation. You earn your respect. It truly is a family. We go to war with each other every day – blood, sweat and tears. That kind of stuff molds you and brings you together. Everybody comes in, nobody typically knows you, or maybe they know your reputation, but at the end of the day, you’re judged by your work, your production on the field and whether or not the team can depend on you and if you’re a good player. It would be great if we can take that type of mentality into the real world where you’re truly not judged by anything but your merit, your ability to work hard and your ability to communicate and cooperate with those around you. That would be ideal.”

Hopkins when asked if he had a story about being singled out due to his race …

“There have been times I’ve been accused of stealing. Corpus Christi, Texas. Walked into a gas station with a pair of sunglasses on my head, got a bag of chips, walked out of the store, me and my family, and the cashier ran out of the store and grabbed me by my arm and said, ‘Sir, you stole from us.’ I don’t even know if they were selling glasses in the store. Or just being accused of it. But my family has always made it known that these are the things you have to be aware of. You have to be aware of your presence. You have to be aware of how you look. Just because a simple misunderstanding like that could end up being much larger. That person could have called the police like the police were called on George Floyd for that $20 bill. It could be one of those situations that unfortunately you never know how they can escalate and how they can get out of control. I was aware as early as the fourth, fifth grade. My parents, my mom made me very aware. It’s not walking on eggshells, but you have to explicitly not be stealing. You have to be over the top with your honesty. When I’m walking through the store, ‘These are the things I have. Here is my receipt. Don’t put the receipt in your bag before you walk out of the store.’ Those kinds of things.”

Taylor on whether he would have canceled practice had the players requested …

“We support our players 100 percent. These meetings in the morning have run through some of our other meetings that we’ve had. It’s the priority right now, is to make sure that the players’ voice is heard. We take whatever time we need to talk through these issues at hand and make sure we’re all on the same page. I think the players have been comfortable with the time that they have available to them to talk with us. I was in a meeting last night with the coaching staff at 5:30 and I had a group of players come up to my office to talk about it. Because they just got out of a team meeting. I think the communication has been really good and everyone feels like we haven’t cut short the time that we need to be able to talk about everything we need to talk about.”

Taylor on his thoughts about Burrow being one of the players to speak up on social media Thursday …

“He knows his voice is important. As a White quarterback and leader on this football team, he knows people listen to him. I am proud of Joe. Sam Hubbard has been really involved in this. Just proud of everybody who has been in these meetings and is not afraid to speak up and talk about it and show their support for their teammates and just unite the team so that we can move forward as a team and unite our community and our country.”

Taylor on what impact he thinks Brown had on the players in Friday’s meeting …

“It’s hard for me to not be emotional hearing him talk about the experiences of his father, the experiences of him as a young kid with players with the Browns and the Bengals when they first started. Those are powerful conversations. I know that the players appreciate that and it’s always great when you know where someone comes from and you hear from them you have a better understanding. I just thought it was a powerful meeting this morning.”

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