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membengal

Let's have a talk about the offensive line

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I was looking at the OT depth chart and there is one name that intrigues me for the RT position.

Isaiah Prince

Drafted by the Dolphins but landed with us.via waivers claim. I would like to see him get some reps and see what happens. He’s a big strong guy with good pass protection.

Cant be any worse than some of the horseshit we’ve seen thrown in there in recent seasons.

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Lol.  I was just pursuing Bengals online shop and saw Prince’s jersey.

Forgot completely about him.  He had some start for Dolphins.  Wonder why they waved him so quick?

 

 

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He pretty much only played in heavy OL packages for the fins. Was seen as a long term project at tackle. They waived him to grab some DT with the intention of resigning him to the PS but the Bengals claimed him.

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Basically you don't want Joe Burrow having to face what Joe Mixon has faced.  

Anyone can see the potential greatness of Mixon.  But team success hasn't happened.  His success has been limited because of blocking.   So far a great attitude.   How long does that last if the line regresses from the 2nd half of last season and he's once again looking a historically bad rushing numbers that simply aren't his fault?

We can't have Burrow running around for his life making a couple awesome plays with a handful of sacks, ints, and stalled offensive drives.  Not making playoffs.  By year 3 he could already be making plans of not staying.

Every Bengal fan knows that's the narrative waiting to be pushed by the media. 

 

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What frustrates me about the situation — and I suspect I’m not alone — is just that fans like me have screamed about the line for years. And every year, our concerns are dismissed all offseason and preseason, and then we get to fall and surprise! the line sucks again.

Maybe this time it’s different. But at this point there’s nothing that could make me believe it short of actually seeing better play in-season.

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Being a massive Buckeyes fan, I remember fondly watching Prince absolutely maul players at the RT position.
He was violent in his approach and could get to the second level to find targets in the run game.
His passing blocking was pretty good from what I remember as well.

Fred Johnson is listed as a starter at the RT spot current when looking at the ESPN depth chart, but that does very little to help in my book.
Thought to be a free agent priority in the draft is not what I want in my starting o-line.  He was also a OG for his whole final season at Florida.
After him you have Hart.  Say what you like, but that dude fucking sucks.  Straight bag of shit on the line.

Maybe they find someone who gets cut, but i'm wondering if they've looked into trades at all ??
Until then and if left to what we have, give me Prince, who they have listed as a RG despite playing RT like forever.
Why do teams do that ??  Just like Hart.  Played OG all through college, but lets put him at RT.
I've said since he's been on the team that he should play OG.  Whatever.
 

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1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:

What frustrates me about the situation — and I suspect I’m not alone — is just that fans like me have screamed about the line for years. And every year, our concerns are dismissed all offseason and preseason, and then we get to fall and surprise! the line sucks again.

Maybe this time it’s different. But at this point there’s nothing that could make me believe it short of actually seeing better play in-season.

Previous off seasons I don't think they dismissed the Offensive line; whatever they did simply sucked.     This year they have dismissed the o-line.

Last year it was widely reported they were desperately trying to trade up in 2nd round to grab Cordy Ford (???).   What changed?  They added Jordan and some late round graded prospects jettisoned from the teams that drafted them and 6th rounder this year.   With a minimal FA back up/fringe starter signing.

A lot riding on Williams, Price, Jordan, Fred, Prince and whoever else to massively improve the performance of the line.

They have had a bunch of misses in a row so I guess you can say they are due. 

If Andre Smith or John Jerry makes an appearance on this roster they have drastically failed again.

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Look at other teams rosters.  Make a trade.  Do something.
Just don't sit back after you know how bad they sucked last year and think last year's #1 pick, who missed the season injured, is the best approach for your shiny new #1 overall QB.
Jonah Williams better be the second coming of Christ, capable of divine intervention which impacts the other sloths currently employed on the o-line.

I hate having to hope some RT gets cut and that he represents an upgrade to our players.
Oh and that it's not so late there isn't time to bring them up to speed on the scheme.

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I really don’t see them doing anything aggressive about this, so hope and pray it is.

While I love the pick of Tee Higgins, now looking back on how the draft ended, Josh Jones at that spot should would look like a positive.

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13 hours ago, membengal said:

 

It can't be denied that the line did improve over the 2nd half of last year.      However,  the offensive production horrendous too.    There's plenty of ways to scheme yourself into better metrics that don't necessarily produce points or can be sustained into winning offensive football.

Burrow overseeing an offense like the one over the 2nd half of last wouldn't be seen as success. 

 

 

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Why in the world would you think Burrow equates to 3 games of Ryan Finley? Or the shell of what Dalton was last year? And the three of Dalton's best games came late - Jets, Dophins, Browns. 

Fact - the line improved last 8 games.

Fact - it is a YOUNG line - there is room for the youth to get better (surprise! sometimes young players get better with experience)

Fact - Joe Burrow is supposed to be a transcendant player - if he is - he will make players including line look better around him.

There is plenty to be worried about, but this board in particular fetishizes worrying like the world's saddest circle jerk. I would like to not see Bobby Hart at RT. I would like to see a vet cut late come in and take that position. Failing that, I would like to see Fred Johnso win it. But even if we end up with the Williams/Jordan/Hopkins/SuaFila/Hart - I am betting with a healthy AJ, along with Boyd, Ross, Higgins and Tate to go with Mixon and Gio and Uzomah and Sample this is a top 15 offense under Burrow. Burrow in November at LSU last year was a fuckton better than Finley and Dalton. 

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2 minutes ago, membengal said:

Why in the world would you think Burrow equates to 3 games of Ryan Finley? Or the shell of what Dalton was last year? And the three of Dalton's best games came late - Jets, Dophins, Browns. 

Fact - the line improved last 8 games.

Fact - it is a YOUNG line - there is room for the youth to get better (surprise! sometimes young players get better with experience)

Fact - Joe Burrow is supposed to be a transcendant player - if he is - he will make players including line look better around him.

There is plenty to be worried about, but this board in particular fetishizes worrying like the world's saddest circle jerk. I would like to not see Bobby Hart at RT. I would like to see a vet cut late come in and take that position. Failing that, I would like to see Fred Johnso win it. But even if we end up with the Williams/Jordan/Hopkins/SuaFila/Hart - I am betting with a healthy AJ, along with Boyd, Ross, Higgins and Tate to go with Mixon and Gio and Uzomah and Sample this is a top 15 offense under Burrow. Burrow in November at LSU last year was a fuckton better than Finley and Dalton. 

While you are lecturing the board on what they should be worried about,  can we revisit your thought on the hiring of the current LINE coach?

2nd no one is equating Burrow to Finely.  Dumb.    The point over your head IS  the Bengals adjusted scheme and playcalling with that QB change.  The offensive production was horrendous and simultaneously the PFF grades improved for the line.    Therefore pointing to PFF grades is nice but not a complete story.

Meaning this line is such a weak point it's not going to help skill players and it won't help in overcoming injuries of skill players.  They have to overcome it. 

Joe Mixon is a transcendant player.   He's made that line look much better than it is.    He's gone 3 years without playoffs and his production is clearly effected by the line.    

Joe Burrow can come in a do the same.   I don't think anyone is doubting that.   But polishing turds is still polishing turds.   This front office has dismissed the dumpster fire that was the line this off season and it could derail Burrow just like it has derailed Mixon and the final years of Dalton/Green era.

It is also FACT - they have cut from their team 3 young linemen.    Ced, Fisher, and Bodine never got any better.  

 

 

 

 

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Why do you keep throwing my thoughts on the line coach at me like you are scoring points? I still think he's a moral cretin. What does that have to do with him being here and coaching?

If you want to get erect in your depression and make passive attacks at me, so be it. But I am going to keep pointing out why your Eeyore act is shit. You are a piece of shit poster who brings fucking nothing to the discussion but sad sack whining. 

I started this thread to give focused space for general discussion and laid out the best case scenario. I also opined that I didn't think that was enough. That didn't stop you from piece of shit attacks on me. I waited about four days to cool off, but, fuck it. Let's just be real. You really do suck. 

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I don't really care who started it, who's at fault, and who sucks:

These exchanges have got to stop. They ruin every thread in which they appear. Block each other for the love of god.

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1 hour ago, membengal said:

Why do you keep throwing my thoughts on the line coach at me like you are scoring points? I still think he's a moral cretin. What does that have to do with him being here and coaching?

If you want to get erect in your depression and make passive attacks at me, so be it. But I am going to keep pointing out why your Eeyore act is shit. You are a piece of shit poster who brings fucking nothing to the discussion but sad sack whining. 

I started this thread to give focused space for general discussion and laid out the best case scenario. I also opined that I didn't think that was enough. That didn't stop you from piece of shit attacks on me. I waited about four days to cool off, but, fuck it. Let's just be real. You really do suck. 

So I’m with Mem on the signings on the waiver wire last year and the draft pick this year, along with Suo are the reasons why the Bengals feel good.  
 

i did watch all the terrible games from 8-16 and somewhere in there the line started making holes for mixon.  Lap said it was a scheme change to better fit the talent where mixon could get outside of tackle ... I’m not saying I watched the All/22s bc I didn’t.  The offense was bad enough to make me not want to.  So , yes, the line ran better and scored more but not what we need for this season.  
 

Cordy Glenn gets hate obviously though he was a real improvement in pass protection as well as run when he got in.  Now he is gone and a 1 pick has to take his place.  Hey on paper it looks possible .

so Amps right too in this way that the line is unproven and the team should have done more.  But I agree with Mem that there is something to hope for even if they don’t sign another player before opening day .

 

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And I will add that it’s my first time back to Cincy in a decade and I was impressed enough with the draft and the development of the o line room that I bought season tickets again.  
 

i was at the Home opener last year and thought that was one of the worst football teams I’ve ever seen.

but ive changed .  Signings on the o-line and the big FA haul for the defense with Burrow and Higgins and No more Nick Vigil have convinced me .

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2 hours ago, membengal said:

Why do you keep throwing my thoughts on the line coach at me like you are scoring points? I still think he's a moral cretin. What does that have to do with him being here and coaching?

If you want to get erect in your depression and make passive attacks at me, so be it. But I am going to keep pointing out why your Eeyore act is shit. You are a piece of shit poster who brings fucking nothing to the discussion but sad sack whining. 

I started this thread to give focused space for general discussion and laid out the best case scenario. I also opined that I didn't think that was enough. That didn't stop you from piece of shit attacks on me. I waited about four days to cool off, but, fuck it. Let's just be real. You really do suck. 

A year ago you thought the Turner hire was horrible.    Now, the key point in this season is the progression of young linemen.    Above you mocked the board saying young players do get better.

So, I throw that thought back at you because it's at odds with your current stance.   Could you please explain your trust in Turner today? 

2nd we just went through a period were we cut 3 young linemen because they never got any better and it was 1st round pick, 2nd round pick and 4th round pick.

It just seems to me that you go off the handle a little bit if someone questions your opinion, sorry.   Before we get into who's attacking who,  I mean you did call the board the world's saddest circle jerk over a topic that is universally considered the biggest issue facing this team.

 

It's not hard to figure out.   Players are going to have to make a massive jump in performance OR be replaced.  Considering we just drafted and finished FA.   I'm guessing next year we'll probably be looking to add starters on the line.

 

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I said he was a horrible hire because he was a shit human. That view hasn't changed. I said his hire undermined ZT's message. I still think it did and does.  But, he's ZT's guy and he stood by him and the line did improve last year while dealing with the crater at LT. So, yeah, he's a shit human, but maybe he's still able to improve them as a coach. Maybe he is less of a shitty human than he was. Regardless, we are stuck with him. So, no, this is not inconsistent. And, no, I decline to join in the eeyore circle jerk. 

i would have addressed RT in particular. They didn’t. Pressure is on turner squarely - but it’s not hopeless - there is talent there and it is young so there’s a chance it could surprise folks 

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If Adeniji beats everyone out, that would be awesome. If he doesn’t, I guess that’s fine as well. I just want someone to take hold of the position.

Yes, I’m worried about it because I don’t have faith in what we currently have in the roster. That being said I’m not a fan of circle jerks and won’t be losing my mind over it.

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Adeniji about pushed that other guy out of the end zone.  Our staff got a good look at him by coaching the senior bowl, so I’m optimistic on his chances to make the team.  
 

My view on the line is it does actually come down to Fred Johnson.  If he turns out to be the player he has foreshadowed, it will fix the biggest weakness on our line.  And the o-line did play better later in the season last year, I just hated to admit it because I hated that shit team so much and I wanted them to lose as many games as needed to get the first pick.  It was truly horrible watching that team.  

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I wanted them to lose as many games as possible because I was sick of all the shit from the front office. The first overall pick was the prize that just came along with that.

I was done as a fan and wouldn’t watch much of anything related to the team. Fast forward to the selection of Joe Burrow and the active free agency period and they have become exciting again. No longer the boring which we’ve all become accustomed to.

I am once again very excited to watch this team play. That being said the o-line is in fact the weak link and any success in 2020 will depend greatly on their ability to protect Burrow.

I will be rooting for the combination of Johnson, Hart, Prince, Adeniji or whoever else they want to throw out there. I just wish we were in a better spot.  Hopefully Burrow makes up for that weakness as well. I will be happy to find out this was all of little concern.

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 The overall point with me about the Offensive line is they have high end skill guys.    You can't judge an offensive line's performance solely by PFF because there a schematic things that go on that can sway those numbers while not hitting the overall production.    Clouding this is the high number of injuries the skill guys have suffered in the last 2 seasons. 

So?  I don't want Joe Burrow's first 3 years to resemble Joe Mixon's.    The bengals took a big chance on him.  Suffered the PR hit.  Then they waste 3 years of his career because they can't fix the o-line.  They can't fix the o-line and it's not because they haven't tried.  It's because they have blown the personnel part of it.  Either they selected bad players or they can't coach them up.   This is through 3 o-line coaches.

Mixon should be a guy that is the range of Bell and Mcaffery's high end season; where 2,000 combined yards isn't considered impossible.   Instead he's all out trying to produce 1,400 yard seasons and finishing last.

To Mem's point.   They ran the ball good in the 2nd half.   The good news is they attributed that to a scheme change.   So that should only get better.   They can run the ball that well.   Burrow should be hell of alot  more accurate than Dalton (but there's obviously a  transition that needs to happen) but there's yards lost by not leading Mixon properly on a lot of throws.    Then a little luck with injuries then you could see a big jump in offensive production. 

Given their recent history on player development.  I still view it as they have left this part to chance.   The past few years when TC opens it's been the same story.  Our D-line destroying the offensive line.   Won't be easier this TC because they've upgraded along the defensive side this year on paper more than the offensive line.

 

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20 hours ago, GapControl said:

So I’m with Mem on the signings on the waiver wire last year and the draft pick this year, along with Suo are the reasons why the Bengals feel good.  
 

i did watch all the terrible games from 8-16 and somewhere in there the line started making holes for mixon.  Lap said it was a scheme change to better fit the talent where mixon could get outside of tackle ... I’m not saying I watched the All/22s bc I didn’t.  The offense was bad enough to make me not want to.  So , yes, the line ran better and scored more but not what we need for this season.  
 

Cordy Glenn gets hate obviously though he was a real improvement in pass protection as well as run when he got in.  Now he is gone and a 1 pick has to take his place.  Hey on paper it looks possible .

so Amps right too in this way that the line is unproven and the team should have done more.  But I agree with Mem that there is something to hope for even if they don’t sign another player before opening day .

 

I second this, can we at least wait to throw shade at this revamped line until they play a game together

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