HoosierCat

Draft Pick Watch

352 posts in this topic

And so it begins. Been a while. 

 

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GIMME AN OFFENSIVE TACKLE 

Either side (Whits not gonna last much longer)

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I would be willing to donate a few bucks to the Gimme a Lineman Foundation.  Paul Alexander though.

No faith.

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Trouble is they need help almost everywhere. D line is Dunlap, Geno and six guys who have never been in my kitchen. LB corps is running in molasses. Secondary is a dumpster fire. O line is 10,000 dumpster fires. RB is meh. Dalton is ok, TE spot is ok, WR is just guys who can't get open or catch or hold on to the ball after you get past Green. Nugent is done and Huber doesn't seem far behind.

im tempted to draft to what strength we have which means pass rush or WR. But who knows yet...

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I was thinking the same thing.

O-line (all positions), D-line (mainly DE), LB (all positions), WR (LaFell isn't it and Boyd is young), Safety (I still hate the Shawn Williams pick)
Those are all needs I wouldn't mind seeing addressed early.

Comp picks for 2017 should be good, yes ??
They can be traded this coming draft as well.
Use them to move up and get some quality players.

Oh, that's after Marvin is no longer the coach and a new mentality is instilled in this team.
There needs to be more focus, more motivation, more anything that fans can see that would indicate effort on the field.

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Just draft Talent.   They aren't good right now but they aren't hopeless either.    They've got several spots that can be addressed. 

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If I had a choice on one personnel change with the Bengals this upcoming offseason, Marvin would be no higher than my second choice

The person who has to go is our gawdawful OL coach slash assistant head coach

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After yesterday:

1. Browns 0-11 (.000)

2. 49ers 1-9 (.100)

3/4. Bears/Jaguars 2-8 (.200)

5. Jets 3-7 (.300)

6. Bengals 3-6-1 (.350)

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I just hope a franchise player falls into our laps.   Like it did for the Steelers in 2004.  

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I have a hard time seeing this team winning even one more game this year, so I think they'll be in position to get an elite prospect. I've been looking at some big boards and player rankings, not so much for specific players but to get a feel for what positions are filling up the top tier. These seem to be DL, LB, CB and RB this year. That's an interesting group because the Bengals have generally shied away from all but one of those positions in the first round recently. They haven't taken a first-round LB since Keith Rivers in 2008, a DE since Pollack since 2005 (or Justin Smith in 2001 depending on whether you view Pollack as a DE or LB), an RB since Chris Perry in 2004 and a DT since Big Daddy in 1994.

And pretty much every single one of those picks was a bust.

That leaves CB, a position they've used three of their last five first round picks on. Sadly, I think a scenario in which they let Dre walk and draft another CB is all too possible.

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I don't think they'll go CB.  Just too many first round picks spent on that position.  Kirkpatrick is a starter in this league, that's all I can say for him.  If they can get him to sign a reasonable deal I think they'll keep him.  

I think they'll go o-line or d-line.  Both need help, and even though I know Kirkpatrick isn't great, he's better at his position right now than some of our guards and tackles on offense are at their positions, and he's better at his position than some of our defensive tackles are at their position.  Linebacker is also a very real possibility.  

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I could make a case for every position defense or offense.   If I had my choice they'd stock this draft for Andy Dalton up and down the board.   Blockers, Runners, and Pass catchers.

If I had my choice they'd stock the coaching ranks with people that would make sure we score an obscene amount of points.

 

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If they go CB in the first again, I won't be watching any games in 2017.  Not that they care, but seriously.

LB is a monster need for this team, but the same can be said for both lines with the o-line apparently in shambles.

Frustrating to be having this conversation at this point.

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Trouble with oline is that it's shaping up as a very weak year for tackles (and you aren't taking a G or C at 6). If they are indeed drafting that high and want to go offense, RB is where the value seems to be. Of curse that could change once the Great Draft Hype Machine gets revved up.

Defensively, DE would make a lot of sense as our pass rush is a joke. MJ looks done and Hunt won't be back. LB and DE/OLB would also make sens but like I said elsewhere Marvin hasn't been big on drafting LBs in the first.

TBH trade down looks like a really good idea...

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I would have no issue with a trade down, but I think that would be predicated on who's coaching the team.
Having a pick this high would be a great time to infuse a new coaching philosophy.

I'm also intrigued with how the ability to trade comp picks is going to play out.
My guess is the Bengals will do what they usually do and sit tight and let the board fall to them.

While that is all fine and well, this adds a wrinkle to the draft that may have great impact.
Knowing we have some coming our way, I hope to God someone is already thinking about it.

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Tobin and company aren't high on taking 4-3 lbs with premium picks. This according to Paulie G at last year's draft party on the selection of CB over LB

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And God knows not being high on that has paid great dividends !!!

I'm not high on paying someone to upkeep my car, but when that sh*t breaks down is it the mechanics fault.
Just stupid to even hear that being said.

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39 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Tobin and company aren't high on taking 4-3 lbs with premium picks. This according to Paulie G at last year's draft party on the selection of CB over LB

Right. And how's that working out for them?

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And what exactly is a "premium pick" ??  A first rounder ??  Top 10 ??

Also, what exactly is the bust rate for drafted players these days ??
I recall an article heading into this years draft that said the bust rate for 1st rounders was above 50%.
So, you could basically flip a coin and have the same odds when choosing a pick.

With that thought in mind, when looking at a position (lets say, ooooooooh 4-3 lbs) that is clearly in need of an upgrade, does it really matter ??
I get draft talent, or BPA line of thought, but if a 4-3 LB is or is close to the BPA can you afford the risk of not taking them because you aren't high on it ??

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Avoid the knee jerk reaction.   Tobin has produced the BEST defensive run in this franchise' history.  

 

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I've been happy (for the most part) with how they have drafted, but that doesn't mean they aren't open for scrutiny either.
For every pick that hits, another doesn't live up to expectations.  Not complaining about that either, but it's not all roses.

This year we've had injuries and Boyd.
2015 we had two early OT's that stink.  I like Josh Shaw and Derron Smith, but whatever else.
2014 nets Dennard, Hill and McCarron.  Dennard has taken time, people won't be mad if Hill leaves and McCarron is an unknown.
2013 sports Eifert and Bernard and then ugh.  Yes, I still hate the Shawn Williams pick.
2012 has Zeitler and Kirkpatrick in their last year Sanu and Jones who are now gone and Iloka.  Nice draft but how many will remain?
2011 Green and Dalton nothing else.
It gets worse going back...

That's 6 years worth of picks and what, maybe 10 picks worth a crap ??  Out of over 50 ??
I don't know what other teams success rate is with drafting, but for a team that gets a lot of good press lately, that doesn't look great.

My question above still stands from above because honestly, that just sounds like a stupid thing to say.
You don't like to use premium picks on that position you say ??  Great, then they are saying they should have success picking that spot later on.
Remind me again how well that's worked in Marvin's tenure here ??  For many years I've heard people say "Marvin's still looking for his joker".
They have sucked at it and now sport an old dude, a mediocre at best dude, and a headcase dude.

 

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To use a term I generally dislike but which I think fits in this case, the problem with their defensive drafting is that they got away from their identity. What made this current D successful in recent years was the front four and, more broadly, the dline rotation. A ferocious line let them get away with an average back 7. But then they got on a CB kick with those premium picks and let the line decay. I think they got a little overconfident in their ability to find later round dline help after Carlos and Geno. And as COB once suggested they started eyeballing the high price positions like corner and thought they could get a cycle going where they would never have to pay that second contract thanks to the rookie salary slotting system. But the corners haven't panned out like they hoped, the line has atrophied, and the LBs have been patched with the bad old system of poor character guys and old washed up dudes. This draft would be a good time to get back to buffing the dline and pass rush.

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On November 14, 2016 at 9:28 PM, HoosierCat said:

Trouble is they need help almost everywhere. D line is Dunlap, Geno and six guys who have never been in my kitchen. LB corps is running in molasses. Secondary is a dumpster fire. O line is 10,000 dumpster fires. RB is meh. Dalton is ok, TE spot is ok, WR is just guys who can't get open or catch or hold on to the ball after you get past Green. Nugent is done and Huber doesn't seem far behind.

im tempted to draft to what strength we have which means pass rush or WR. But who knows yet...

I'm in agreement. Draft D line and outside offense. DT or WR, and target RB and LB in FA. 

this is not hard. This is basic football roster mgmt. Allen or McDowell, or Williams or Ross. Give us the best chance to improve at key areas and I'm happy.

i  FA, with Bernard recovering let's see Ellington come in and push the roster. On the outside chance Pitt fucks up their salary cap, go big and target Leveon Bell. Why not?

at LB, we need OLB backer as Dansby is old AF. A guy like Greenway or Tulloch, would fit. Maybe a guy like Alonso would look good next to Tez.

At DE, dump Hunt and Johnson, go after Calais Campbell or JPP and we can all believe things will improve opposite Dunlap.

these will eat cap space but will ensure we don't miss our window. Which is closing, and fast.

 

time to act, enough Hunt and Clarke at DE Enough Porter and Flowers at LB. Enough Williams and Keough at S. Act now.

 

 

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11 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I've been happy (for the most part) with how they have drafted, but that doesn't mean they aren't open for scrutiny either.
For every pick that hits, another doesn't live up to expectations.  Not complaining about that either, but it's not all roses.

This year we've had injuries and Boyd.
2015 we had two early OT's that stink.  I like Josh Shaw and Derron Smith, but whatever else.
2014 nets Dennard, Hill and McCarron.  Dennard has taken time, people won't be mad if Hill leaves and McCarron is an unknown.
2013 sports Eifert and Bernard and then ugh.  Yes, I still hate the Shawn Williams pick.
2012 has Zeitler and Kirkpatrick in their last year Sanu and Jones who are now gone and Iloka.  Nice draft but how many will remain?
2011 Green and Dalton nothing else.
It gets worse going back...

That's 6 years worth of picks and what, maybe 10 picks worth a crap ??  Out of over 50 ??
I don't know what other teams success rate is with drafting, but for a team that gets a lot of good press lately, that doesn't look great.

My question above still stands from above because honestly, that just sounds like a stupid thing to say.
You don't like to use premium picks on that position you say ??  Great, then they are saying they should have success picking that spot later on.
Remind me again how well that's worked in Marvin's tenure here ??  For many years I've heard people say "Marvin's still looking for his joker".
They have sucked at it and now sport an old dude, a mediocre at best dude, and a headcase dude.

 

Reminder:  2010 Bengals finished 4-12 and went through a mass exit of name worthy talent.  TO, Chad, Carson etc.

Starting with the 2011 draft class they have amassed 55 wins, 2 division titles.  3 wild card births, 0 playoff wins.   

They aren't players for Free Agents that they don't draft.     These years had some top NFL defenses best in franchise history.     

         

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