Worst OL in the NFL?

[volcom69]

11 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Not to be argumentative but he did have AJ Green.

The ultimate “Throw it up and let 18 get it”.

Marvin Jones, and Sanu, the dude had some great WR, the one and only thing the Bengals know how to draft

[volcom69]

16 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

It’s really not that complex, Andy did it for years with the pre-snap read system. Flacco is effectively doing the same thing, at least as far as familiar teams are concerned. There’s nothing they can show him that he hasn’t seen, which is why Tomlin was so butthurt. So we should be a little restrained about what this means for teams like the jets and bears. But in the division, dude ought to be money.

So every year no matter what this offense sucks for like the first couple weeks. It’s like Burrow forgets how to read a defense, and Zac forgets how to call plays. All of a sudden something switches with them and they start playing awesome, like they all of a sudden remember.

Zac called a hell of a game against Pitt and I’ll be curious to see if that trend continues, and continues by running the ball. 

[AMPHAR]

I'd give it more time as far as determining judgement on O-line.  The pressure metrics over that last 8 quarters have dropped significantly.   But vs. Pittsburgh the ball was out most of the time on time or in the dirt.   Flacco isn't playing hero ball.     But at some point he'll be forced too as teams will adjust to him in the Bengals offense.   I think going under center and making attempts at running had a big effect, then of course Chase breaking some of his longest runs was a huge benefit. 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

Also remember the opposite is true.   Bengals pass rush was horrible vs. Steelers.   However, Steelers did a great job throwing 0-2 yard passes and getting YAC to keep chains moving.    It was the long conversions the Steelers had with 0 pressure the biggest issue but down to down soft coverage/big cushion and poor pursuit destroyed a lot of quality pass rush opportunities. 

 

[HoosierCat]

Yah tackling continued to be terrible on Thursday, and their obvious preference for dropping 8 into coverage versus actually trying to get to Rogers when he had to throw long speaks to Golden’s lack of confidence in generating a pass rush without Trey. Though tbf you can argue the two picks were the difference in the game, so I guess it worked, barely.

[gregcook69]

On 10/19/2025 at 5:55 AM, ArmyBengal said:

Valid point for sure…

This isn’t sarcasm or criticism, it’s complimentary, you guys go much deeper into this game than I do, so I’m assuming the pre-snap read is something the QB does?

If so, are you saying Dalton and Flacco do that better than Burrow?

[gregcook69]

On 10/20/2025 at 9:31 AM, HoosierCat said:

Yah tackling continued to be terrible on Thursday, and their obvious preference for dropping 8 into coverage versus actually trying to get to Rogers when he had to throw long speaks to Golden’s lack of confidence in generating a pass rush without Trey. Though tbf you can argue the two picks were the difference in the game, so I guess it worked, barely.

Tackling has never been that consistent with this franchise?!?

[HoosierCat]

Back on topic, some comps after three games with the Old Man.

Sacks:

5 games with Burrow/Browning: 15 (3/games)

3 games with Flacco: 4 (1.3/game)

Rushing yards:

B/B: 285 (57/games)

F: 378 (126/game)

Passing yards:

B/B: 946 (189/game)

F: 784 (261/game)

First downs:

B/B: 77 (15.4/game)

F: 71 (23.6/game)

Points:

B/B: 85 (17/game)

F: 89 (29.6/game)

I know it's a small sample size, different opponents, etc., but the differences are pretty glaring. I mean, at the Burrow/Browning rate, over a full season that's 51 sacks. At the Flacco rate it's about 22. To put that in perspective, the 2005 playoff team with Big Willie, Bobbie Williams, Buckethead, Steinbach and Levi before he broke down gave up 19 sacks. With Flacco, the o-line looks like that. With Burrow/Browning, it looks like poo-poo.

Rushing yards, first downs, jut a bloodbath for the QBs on the roster at the start of the season.

 

 

[volcom69]

47 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Back on topic, some comps after three games with the Old Man.

Sacks:

5 games with Burrow/Browning: 15 (3/games)

3 games with Flacco: 4 (1.3/game)

Rushing yards:

B/B: 285 (57/games)

F: 378 (126/game)

Passing yards:

B/B: 946 (189/game)

F: 784 (261/game)

First downs:

B/B: 77 (15.4/game)

F: 71 (23.6/game)

Points:

B/B: 85 (17/game)

F: 89 (29.6/game)

I know it's a small sample size, different opponents, etc., but the differences are pretty glaring. I mean, at the Burrow/Browning rate, over a full season that's 51 sacks. At the Flacco rate it's about 22. To put that in perspective, the 2005 playoff team with Big Willie, Bobbie Williams, Buckethead, Steinbach and Levi before he broke down gave up 19 sacks. With Flacco, the o-line looks like that. With Burrow/Browning, it looks like poo-poo.

Rushing yards, first downs, jut a bloodbath for the QBs on the roster at the start of the season.

 

 

Kind of crazy isn’t it. Flacco gets rid of the ball so fast most of the time, and they found a run game which helps out huge. I will say for most of the game Zac called a pretty good game, not sure why it takes him like 4 games to figure it out, but every year it does 

[ArmyBengal]

It's a run game and playing to the o-line's strength.

I pointed out in the Steelers game how quickly Flacco got the ball out, but people tend to forget that Burrow led the league last year in getting the ball out the fastest.  If the Bengals could actually follow through on their yapping and develop a consistent running game and stick to that plan, Burrow wouldn't be taking all the sacks he does.  Then there's Burrow's tendencies as a QB to extend plays.  Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't, which also contributes to sacks.  It's Zac's responsibility to reign that in and I think he's failed more often then not.

[AMPHAR]

I still say let it play out but there's a stark contrast between playing hero ball with Burrow and going into a game thinking they can't put the whole game on Flacco.

Flacco is in the launch point.  Won't try to extend plays endlessly and throws it away quicker.  Clearly support better by stronger commitment to running game.    

Burrow has been a leader and very productive but you can see it in their personalities as well.  Burrow often gets up and talks trash after being hit, scrambling, throwing a TD.    Flacco kinds just moves on.   Not intended to be a negative but 1 QB clearly wants it on his shoulders all the time.  Flacco so far is just about taking what's there. 

 

 

 

[gregcook69]

13 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

I still say let it play out but there's a stark contrast between playing hero ball with Burrow and going into a game thinking they can't put the whole game on Flacco.

Flacco is in the launch point.  Won't try to extend plays endlessly and throws it away quicker.  Clearly support better by stronger commitment to running game.    

Burrow has been a leader and very productive but you can see it in their personalities as well.  Burrow often gets up and talks trash after being hit, scrambling, throwing a TD.    Flacco kinds just moves on.   Not intended to be a negative but 1 QB clearly wants it on his shoulders all the time.  Flacco so far is just about taking what's there. 

 

 

 

Kudos AMPHAR!!!

SOMEBODY had to say this!  As an accurate as JB is, just as everyone does, he has his flaws and it’s almost as if no one DARE say it out loud!!!

[COB]

53 minutes ago, gregcook69 said:

Kudos AMPHAR!!!

SOMEBODY had to say this!  As an accurate as JB is, just as everyone does, he has his flaws and it’s almost as if no one DARE say it out loud!!!

Lol.

[ArmyBengal]

Actually there has been conversation lately about Burrow and although he brings elite talent to the QB, he also brings with him a mindset that can lead to issues for the entire offense.  We saw the change in the offense in 2023 when he went out for the remainder of the season and you see it again with Flacco leading the charge.  

I also mentioned and still believe that for all the many years of talk about fast starts being an issue, and everything that has been attempted to correct that, I don't think it was any of those things.  I'm firmly in the camp of slow start being nearly 100% on Burrow.  There was a clip on the Netflix series of QB when he said slow starts are a combination of injuries, contract issues, and readiness, but then he said something about the beginning of the season and how he felt about it.  I remember hearing that, but no one picking up on it.  I will have to go back and see if I can find what I am referring to.

Anyway, I love Burrow, will take his elite traits and simply hope he figures things out early and realized he doesn't need to take it all on himself.
His personality makes me believe that will be a struggle.

[ArmyBengal]

That was quick...  I found it.  Burrow said:

"Sometimes early in the year, I think I get a little too like, 'Don't turn the ball over'.  Usually I see it and I throw it, sometimes I throw a pick, but I think sometimes early in the season I'm just like, 'Don't turn it over we're going to win" and then it's not always the case."

While I like that the team collectively takes on responsibility for slow starts and knows it's something they have to make sure doesn't happen, if #9 can't get those "Jitters" or whatever they are out of his head when he's on the field in the first few weeks, that's problematic.

I'm not absolving the defense, o-line play, play calling or anything else which contributes, but if the QB is the most important piece of the puzzle, I think that comment above along with his tendencies as a QB are what leads to the slow start problems.

All that being said, as a fan I love having Burrow and agree that when he's out there, I feel like they are going to win.
Guess you have to take the good with the bad.

[gregcook69]

14 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

That was quick...  I found it.  Burrow said:

"Sometimes early in the year, I think I get a little too like, 'Don't turn the ball over'.  Usually I see it and I throw it, sometimes I throw a pick, but I think sometimes early in the season I'm just like, 'Don't turn it over we're going to win" and then it's not always the case."

While I like that the team collectively takes on responsibility for slow starts and knows it's something they have to make sure doesn't happen, if #9 can't get those "Jitters" or whatever they are out of his head when he's on the field in the first few weeks, that's problematic.

I'm not absolving the defense, o-line play, play calling or anything else which contributes, but if the QB is the most important piece of the puzzle, I think that comment above along with his tendencies as a QB are what leads to the slow start problems.

All that being said, as a fan I love having Burrow and agree that when he's out there, I feel like they are going to win.
Guess you have to take the good with the bad.

2027 AB!  The 60th year anniversary will be the year a Lombardi shows up at Paycor!

Defense will be revamped by then and in the top ten and the offense will be in the top 5!

Take it to the bank!

February 2028 World Champions!!!

WHO RAH!!!

[ArmyBengal]

7 hours ago, gregcook69 said:

2027 AB!  The 60th year anniversary will be the year a Lombardi shows up at Paycor!

Defense will be revamped by then and in the top ten and the offense will be in the top 5!

Take it to the bank!

February 2028 World Champions!!!

WHO RAH!!!

Well, with the contracts handed out, 2027 "shouldn't" present any challenges for Burrow, Chase and Higgins, so there's a start.

A fan of another team that posts here (sorry, can't remember which one) asked why there's is so little optimism with the team.
I give you 2025 and probably 2026.  I'm too old to continue with the whole optimism thing heading into a season.
It's like we've been around it enough to know how this story ends.

It's totally that comment that was made out in the world wide web once that:
"I want my pallbearers to be Bengals players, so they can let me down one last time".

[HoosierCat]

It's the missed opportunities of recent years that utterly frustrate me.

If you're a long-time Bengals fan, you're used to a team that is usually not very good. Look back over the years from 1968 to 2010 -- a 42-season period -- and you will find a team that had more than two winning seasons in a row just once: 1975-77. Hell, outside of that "streak" they only managed two straight winning seasons ONCE, 1972-73. 

From 1978 to 2004 they had five, count 'em, five winning seasons. Sure, they made it to the Super Bowl twice, but outside of those two years they were usually mediocre at best and awful at worst.

But you know what? Things actually did change around 2010. Rag on Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton all you want but the team had a (still) record five straight winning seasons (four straight by double digits) from 2011-2015. And yeah, they lost five straight wild cards, but at least they were fun to watch during the season.

It all fell apart after 2015, but with Burrow's arrival things changed again. The team had four straight winning seasons coming into this year. Looks like they won't tie the record, but that's not really the point. It's more than the last 14 years have been the most successful decade-and-a-half in the team's history, by far.

If they just sucked liked they used to, it would be a lot easier to laugh. What's happening now is just a criminal waste of money and talent.

[AMPHAR]

Major changes were made to the Bengal way in 2003, 2010, and 2020.   All done in the dark without much fan fare.  My guess is to protect the ego of Brown family.  But positive changes none the less although mysterious and slow.   However, the overall quality of football and results have improved.

Right now.  You are seeing a possible repeat of the last Dalton years.   When they paid the QB, when they had success and lower draft picks as a result.  They couldn't replenish the talent fast enough or plug holes to continue.    They currently have spend a bunch of draft capital on defense without any results.

Pending how the season ends they need to avoid the last years of Marvin hanging on chasing that 1 playoff victory.  Bad draft decisions were made during that period.   Just rip off the band aid and make another round of sweeping changes don't try to band aid this or that. 

The biggest issue will be the Burrow issue.  He's injury prone.  Seems locked into the way he wants to play.   So if the chance arises do you attempt to replace? 

[ArmyBengal]

It kinds of reminds me when the Packers took Jordan Love.
They had Rodgers and they needed offensive weapons to help him and they went QB.

As a fan, that would piss me off, but at the same time, they weren't necessarily wrong.

If there was a QB they felt that highly about and they share the same feelings about Burrow, it wouldn't shock me.
Thing is, I don't think that's a shared opinion and at this point, I have little reason to believe the scouts could manage that.

Trusting this scouting staff to appropriately rate a prospect at the most important position?
**Looks to the defensive picks lately**

Burrow didn't take much thought sitting at #1.

[AMPHAR]

Bengals deserve huge credit for drafting Burrow.  Same with Palmer and Dalton.   Its never a given.   People that say that forget theTim Tebow's of the world and the countless 100 other guys that were can't miss. 

 

[ArmyBengal]

I get that, just meaning that when you are sitting at #1 and have a need for a franchise QB and there just happens to be one staring at you, it's not that hard of a choice.  The only way they could have screwed that up is by trading down and even that is arguable.  The other QB I liked in that draft is Herbert and could have been had in a trade down.  I'm simply a firm believer that if you don't have a franchise QB, you try to get one.

Do some of those guys bust out?  Sure, but that's not the point I was making.  There really wasn't any one else they were "seriously" considering.
Whatever the stories were, it's been established Burrow was the guy from jump.  Hard to give huge credit for a no brainer pick.

[AMPHAR]

1 minute ago, ArmyBengal said:

I get that, just meaning that when you are sitting at #1 and have a need for a franchise QB and there just happens to be one staring at you, it's not that hard of a choice.  The only way they could have screwed that up is by trading down and even that is arguable.  The other QB I liked in that draft is Herbert and could have been had in a trade down.  I'm simply a firm believer that if you don't have a franchise QB, you try to get one.

Do some of those guys bust out?  Sure, but that's not the point I was making.  There really wasn't any one else they were "seriously" considering.
Whatever the stories were, it's been established Burrow was the guy from jump.  Hard to give huge credit for a no brainer pick.

100% disagree.   Its never as easy as it appears.   Fans are simply hindsight.  

 

[ArmyBengal]

11 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

100% disagree.   Its never as easy as it appears.   Fans are simply hindsight.  

 

That's cool.  However, who else were they taking?  What other player posed serious consideration for the #1 overall?
They had a need at QB, were sitting at #1, and staring at a guy that threw 50 TD's in a season, won the National Championship and the Heisman.
Those types of guys aren't always sitting there for the taking just because you have a need.
The only thing they needed to make sure of is, was he a fit for what they wanted on the team and it has been noted that was determined early on in the process leading up to the draft.  This wasn't a situation where we look back and see it was obvious, it was obvious from the jump.

There would have been outrage had they taken Chase Young for example and passed on Burrow.

[HoosierCat]

Well, if we are gonna relitigate 2020…

Bengals picks then:

1. Joe Burrow

2. Tee Higgins 

My picks now, served up with 100% hindsight:

1. Justin Jefferson

2. Jalen Hurts