A Very Pointed Article

[gregcook68]

Of all the explanations/excuses I've heard/read, this one kind of speaks most truthfully to the heart of the matter.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/news-super-bowl-mark-schlereth-drops-startling-take-joe-burrow-s-chance-championship

[AMPHAR]

Stupid.    There are thousands of QBs that have made NFL rosters.   To this point in history there can only be 58 Superbowl winning QBs.   The number is much less because there can be repeats, duh.     

Pointed article?  More like lame bullshit.    These stats were bantered around last season because Purdy was the lowest "drafted" QB to start in the game if you discount Warner and Delhomme because they were undrafted.    There have been 67 different starting QBs in the Superbowl out of 116 possible.  13 have been No. 1 overall draft picks. 

If you ignore the reality of how hard it is to just start in the game once then there's also:

Burrow throws to a WR drafted top 5 that was a National Champion in college and just completed the WR triple Crown.   Throws to another WR that they beat in the College National Championship and will be listed as the top Free Agent in March.   Bengals defense has the leading sack guy.

This narrative has literally gone from Burrow, don't go to Cincinnati demand they trade the pick because they'll ruin your career to well you maybe really good but you won't win a championship. 

I believe there have been 38 Heisman winning QBs.  Only 2 have won the Superbowl.    Yeah, its pretty fucking hard to even start a singular superbowl and even harder to win it.

 

[ArmyBengal]

Sportskeeda is garbage and that article is someone talking about what someone else said.

There's simply no way to determine what will or won't happen with any team in this league.
There are still other teams that have never won a Super Bowl.  There are still three teams that have never even been to the game.
There are great QB's that have never won a Super Bowl and mediocre QB's that have won it.

In regards to the person making the comments, Mark Schlereth, he's a total dickbag.
Next...

[gregcook69]

11 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Sportskeeda is garbage and that article is someone talking about what someone else said.

There's simply no way to determine what will or won't happen with any team in this league.
There are still other teams that have never won a Super Bowl.  There are still three teams that have never even been to the game.
There are great QB's that have never won a Super Bowl and mediocre QB's that have won it.

In regards to the person making the comments, Mark Schlereth, he's a total dickbag.
Next...

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

The POINT of the article that even HC made right here in the forums is until they start putting a team and coaches AROUND JB, the franchise will NEVER get a Lombardi!

HC said what very few outside of this forum will admit, the only ‘SHOT’ this franchise has, is for the Brown family to sell!

After 57 years, if anyone either isn't willing to come to terms with that OR just a glutton for punishment like HC admitted he was, KNOWING that its a 90% chance NOTHING changes  . . . . good luck!

Enough is enough!

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

Here’s what I won’t do. I won’t let my contempt for Mike Brown and the approach this franchise typically takes, cloud what they have at least tried to do.

They have made some solid draft picks, even if initially I didn’t care for them. They drafted Higgins with Burrow and then gave Burrow another weapon in Chase the next year. They already had Mixon, but drafted Chase Brown, who had a great season this year. 

They have spent money to bring in free agent o-linemen, tight ends, and made a trade for Herbert before the trade deadline after Zack Moss went down, which they never do. They have also brought in contributors on defense as well. Hendrickson, Reader and Hilton were all above average additions.

While the coaches haven’t gotten the results they should be getting, we just saw the willingness of the team to hold them accountable. I wasn’t expecting to see that happen that quick, if at all.

Not sure where there’s a 90% change that nothing happens comes from when change is the hot topic today with coaches get canned.

Again, I hate Mike Brown, hate some of the coaches they brought in and hate the results they’ve gotten. Well, outside of getting to two AFC championship games and a Super Bowl over the last five years. There are plenty of teams in the league that can’t say that. However, I won’t sit here and claim they’ve done nothing to at least try to help build around Burrow.

Yeah, everyone has an asshole but some are dumber than others. Not pointing that at anyone here specifically, but I think at least a little hate is misguided.

[COB]

Bengals can never win a Super Bowl?  Let me jump in my Time Machine, look we were a couple plays away from winning one a few years ago.

[HoosierCat]

40 minutes ago, COB said:

Bengals can never win a Super Bowl?  Let me jump in my Time Machine, look we were a couple plays away from winning one a few years ago.

Sonofa...damnit, COB, do something useful: jump in that time machine, go back a few weeks and hit the mega millions, convert it all to gold bars, go back in time again to 1986, convert the gold back to dollars and buy as much stock as you can in microsoft, come back to today and you're richer than tesla boy AND BUY THE FRIKING TEAM!!! Do I have to think of everything around here???

[ArmyBengal]

2 hours ago, gregcook69 said:

The POINT of the article that even HC made right here in the forums is until they start putting a team and coaches AROUND JB, the franchise will NEVER get a Lombardi!

The point of the article is some hack at Sportskeeda taking something someone else said and then not presenting any original content and simply regurgitating what Schlereth said.
Schlereth last played 25 years ago and he played Guard.  What the hell does he know about the structural operations of the Bengals?  He doesn't know any more than we do.
He passes his opinion off like there's no disputing it, no room for discussion or counter points.  He's just a douchebag and has a history of hating on the Bengals.

Tell you what, go back and take a look at the Super Bowl winning QB's and tell me which one of them wasn't the face of the franchise needing to carry and lead the team?
Did Peyton and Eli Manning, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Mahomes, Stafford or Rodgers take a back seat and say "Someone else needs to represent this team"?
No, they all led from the front and carried the weight of the organization.  That's what QB's do right or wrong.
That's not to say they didn't have solid to great defenses, great o-lines, or anything else, but at the end of the day, the QB stands in front of everyone to answer questions.

Wade York hitting the upright is part of the systemic issues of the organization?  Really?  Or maybe it was a poor snap, misstep, bad hit, wind, the fucking sun in his eyes.
I don't know, but it sounds to me like someone who would rather see Burrow playing anywhere else but in Cincinnati.  You know, like what happened leading up to that draft?

But hey, thanks Sanu Abraham from Sportkeeda, that's some really insightful shit.
Postgraduate degree in "Creative Writing"?  Not much creativity to be found in that garbage.

That might be me being a dick, but whatever...

[AMPHAR]

Again stupid article.

Thousands of QB have played in the NFL.  34 have won a Superbowl.    Winning one is the exception.      Secondly, to have someone nationally opine about Burrow's Superbowl destiny; these things typically come after a player or coach has demonstrated some level of success but not the top level.    These things were said about Andy Reid, Peyton Manning and a whole slew of others before they won a Superbowl.  You'll find doubts about Lamar, Josh and whoever else at this point and it will continue right up until they win one.

 

 

 

[gregcook68]

2 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

Yeah, everyone has an asshole but some are dumber than others. Not pointing that at anyone here specifically, but I think at least a little hate is misguided.

“Burrow’s contract has nothing to do with it. Teams can pay their star QB and still pay other players. KC does it. Baltimore does it. Cincinnati uses it as an excuse because they don’t want to play by the same financial rules as the rest of the league. The Brown family’s no. 1 goal is NOT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, it’s to pile up as much money as possible in their bank accounts.” HC

 

[ArmyBengal]

Some teams go all in and some don't.  Remember when the Rams went all in?  They acquired star players and burned through draft picks like crazy.
All in all, they won the Super Bowl , obviously beating our Bengals and then missed the playoffs the following year with 5 wins.

I don't know if the Bengals are right or wrong in their approach or how much has changed through the years.
However, the results speak loudly.  Maybe they've changed and still had the same end result.  I can't even begin to pretend I know.
I think most people do though.  I think they see only the end results and make the determination that nothing has changed.
Hell, they may be right, but there's no way to truly make that determination as a fan without any access to the front office.

Look, I just hate fucking losing anything.  I've been hyper competitive my entire life and losing just doesn't sit well with me.
I just want them to win.  Maybe I'm just getting older, but screaming at the sky for being blue isn't really helping anymore.

Bring on the draft.

[HoosierCat]

13 minutes ago, gregcook68 said:

“Burrow’s contract has nothing to do with it. Teams can pay their star QB and still pay other players. KC does it. Baltimore does it. Cincinnati uses it as an excuse because they don’t want to play by the same financial rules as the rest of the league. The Brown family’s no. 1 goal is NOT TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP, it’s to pile up as much money as possible in their bank accounts.” HC

 

The Bengals' struggles to build a team around Burrow (and Dalton and Palmer and etc.) are explained in part by their financial strategies. They dedicate exactly as much money to players as they are required to by the CBA (no cash over cap) and dole that out as conservatively as possible (no guarantees beyond year one). Outside of players they are notoriously frugal (the infamously skimpy scouting organization is one example) though that has moderated here and there recently (facilities upgrades over the last couple of years are a notable example).

Now, does that make it impossible to win a championship? In my opinion, no, but it sure doesn't help. And as we have seen it's very difficult to sustain unless they continually hit, year in and year out, on young (and cheap) talent in the draft. This is why their failure to invest in scouting is so maddening.

[ArmyBengal]

Agree that the scouting is just an unreal thought to have considering the amount of time, money and energy that goes into the whole thing.
I don't think I will ever understand that approach.  Maddening is an understatement.

I think many think the Bengals are the only team that struggles to figure it all out.
We aren't the only ones trying to figure out what happened to this season and watching other teams in the playoffs.
We aren't the only ones pissed off today and questioning everything about our organizations.
The Bengals aren't the only ones trying to determine the best way to manage the cap.

Want me to stop questioning things Bengals and get me to give my money back to you?
Win a Super Bowl.  As the saying goes... "Winning cures everything" !!

[gregcook68]

16 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

 

. . . . Look, I just hate fucking losing anything.  I've been hyper competitive my entire life and losing just doesn't sit well with me.
I just want them to win.  Maybe I'm just getting older, but screaming at the sky for being blue isn't really helping anymore.

 

Neither does all the hate and cursing either Army!

Maybe Junior has more on the ball than you think?

I’ve come to the epiphany that it’s all just a game!

Sure, I’d love to see more playoff victories and maybe even a Lombardi, like the 3 WS trophies I've seen the Reds win.

Winning 5 playoff games in 2 years, the same amount of wins it took the same franchise 53 years to win, is definitely a start, but I agree with HC.

Unfortunately this sport has gotten to the point that IF you want to truly compete you have to play by the same financial rules your competitors play by.

I saw Tyreek Hill crying that he needs to leave Miami and go where the money because he has to feed his family!?!? ROTFL!!

A multi-millionaire is concerned about feeding his family?

How about us working stiffs who average 2.5 million in our LIFETIME?  How do WE do it?!?

Not sure if, even after MB leaves, Katie will do.

Time will tell.

[gregcook68]

8 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

 

. . . Want me to stop questioning things Bengals and get me to give my money back to you? . . .

Me?  ?????

[ArmyBengal]

5 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

Me?  ?????

No, the Bengals front office.
My bad…

[ArmyBengal]

7 hours ago, gregcook68 said:

Neither does all the hate and cursing either Army!

I cuss.  It's what I do.

God (with an extended ah) Damnit has been passed down for generations.

I blame the fucking war.

[TJJackson]

11 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Sonofa...damnit, COB, do something useful: jump in that time machine, go back a few weeks and hit the mega millions, convert it all to gold bars, go back in time again to 1986, convert the gold back to dollars and buy as much stock as you can in microsoft, come back to today and you're richer than tesla boy AND BUY THE FRIKING TEAM!!! Do I have to think of everything around here???

one problem Joisey: everyone knows that time machines are powered solely by arby's potato cakes, and you cant get those no more

it is rumored that the US Govt has a pallet of frozen potato cakes in an armoured underground bunker, so there is that

[AMPHAR]

I disagree with alot of what is being stated here.   It comes off as a bunch emotional sports fans that don't know how to handle their disappointment in a season while at the same time not realizing their expectations for their favorite team have risen due to better performance on the football field.   Its mostly Superbowl or bust right now and I can't or no one else can tell you IF that goal will ever be reached again.    

I've watched a lot of Bengals football just like everyone else in here.    I struggle to find a period that tops this 4 year stretch in terms of winning and roster building in Bengal history also this 4 year stretch out performs a majority of other NFL franchises.   Sure the Dolphins, Cowboys and slew of others won Superbowls a long time ago.  Bengals going on several years have better managed their team vs. the majority of NFL franchises. Its fact.

When you look at why this season wasn't a playoff year.  Was it talent?  Well they played 3 games vs. KC/Ravens.   All 3 came down to the last play and could have easily been Bengal wins vs. Bengal losses.     KC/Ravens are the two favorites with the AFC long with Buffalo.   They didn't play Buffalo but have whooped them multiple times in recent seasons.

Not buying any of arguement regarding talent or scouting.  That's just emotional Bengal fans jumping back to the 90s.   Why?  Look at those 3 losses.   It was Joe Burrow fumbling in KC.  It was Joe Burrow throwing a late INT vs. Ravens in a Chase miscommunication.  It was Money Mac missing a FG to win.  It was Chase Brown fumbling vs. Ravens.   There were unfortunately calls made or not made that were questionable in each that also influenced the outcome.  Not placing the blame on any individual player but it once again is FACT we had some bad breaks from refs and Pro Bowl caliber players that swung critical games.

You can debate changes made or not made.  Not to be harsh but some in here post like their emotions have taken over.   Can't see the reality in front of their face.   

You guys realize no matter what happens in the free agency period or the draft, the Bengals will be among the AFC favorites with KC, Balt, and Buffalo.  You guys realize this, right?

Again, not to be insulting to anyone in here but the entire season was "Woe is us" blah, blah, no changes same ole same ole.  Boom first day black Monday coaches fired.

At some point some you need to evaluate giving up sports watching or accept the reality the Bengals are trying to win but there's no guarantee of winning a Superbowl that's the reality of the NFL and there are ton of franchises that have gone through the same shit.

 

 

[gregcook68]

12 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I cuss.  It's what I do.

God (with an extended ah) Damnit has been passed down for generations.

I blame the fucking war.

You won’t have anyone to blame ONE DAY!
 

Poo  poo it all you want, but it’s like the saying goes . . . . “Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true!”

[ArmyBengal]

17 minutes ago, gregcook68 said:

You won’t have anyone to blame ONE DAY!
 

Poo  poo it all you want, but it’s like the saying goes . . . . “Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true!”

It was a joke Greg.  I don't blame the war or anyone else.  I just choose to cuss.
Much like some people can't help but to bitch and moan about Mike Brown and nothing changing because the front office can't guarantee them something.
If people don't like me cussing, they can go fuck themselves.  It's not emotional, I just don't care what people think.
Maybe people should stop taking the moral superiority high ground thinking they are better than others.

I'm just Mark.  I'm passionate about my family, the work I do and yes, sports.  When I feel it's appropriate in any of those instances to use foul language.  I do.
If it offends.  Who cares?  There's no promise in life people won't get offended.  But guess what happens to you when you get offended.  FUCKING NOTHING.

[gregcook68]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

. . . Again, not to be insulting to anyone in here but the entire season was "Woe is us" blah, blah, no changes same ole same ole.  Boom first day black Monday coaches fired.  . . . . 

 

 

 

I don’t disagree with your point AMPHAR, but this quote above makes MY point!

I was two months shy of being 15 when PB BIRTHED the Bengals.  Because Cincy was just 50 miles south of Dayton on I75, and my dad was a huge PB fan, and thought he was done dirty in Cleveland, we changed from Brown to Bengal fans.

This franchise has NEVER done what you’ve described above . . EVER!

THIS is my POINT!

Kind of like what HC was saying, if a franchise wants to compete, they have to play by the rules the other franchises are playing by! PERIOD!!

Cleaning the problem coaching areas is a start TOWARD that ‘rule playing’!

Changing coaches doesn’t ALWAYS prove to be the right move, as Cleveland has shown over the years, but when you have a team with the passing and sack Kings, and a receiver who joins just 5 other receivers who have won the triple crown in the Super-bowl era, and don’t make the playoffs . . . something HAS to be done and this franchise FINALLY DID something as uncharacteristically as it was!

AGREE?

PB had a brilliant football mind!  He was Belichick’s mentor!

Not saying he NEVER made mistakes, and one of his biggest blunders, looking back, was naming Tiger Johnson has HC instead of Bill Walsh when PB stepped down as HC!

The ONLY sweet spot for me about the Bengals first two SB losses was, it was sweet revenge for Walsh!

 

[gregcook68]

20 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

It was a joke Greg.  I don't blame the war or anyone else.  I just choose to cuss.
Much like some people can't help but to bitch and moan about Mike Brown and nothing changing because the front office can't guarantee them something.
If people don't like me cussing, they can go fuck themselves.  It's not emotional, I just don't care what people think.
Maybe people should stop taking the moral superiority high ground thinking they are better than others.

I'm just Mark.  I'm passionate about my family, the work I do and yes, sports.  When I feel it's appropriate in any of those instances to use foul language.  I do.
If it offends.  Who cares?  There's no promise in life people won't get offended.  But guess what happens to you when you get offended.  FUCKING NOTHING.

It has absolutely NOTHING to do with me being offended or moral high ground.

I’m pretty much bulletproof when it comes to being offended unless someone comes after my family.

Just trying to pass along a heads up about forever!

MANY people have no problem with that gamble and it’s a ‘personal’ preference! People are free to believe and live however they want.  My opinion means NOTHING to anyone except me!

I just choose to cover my hind-end, because after living in this God forsaken world for 71 or 80 years, I want to make sure forever isn’t worse than it is here, because forever is a long time!

Some never want to talk about it, but I came to the realization that since I have a limited, finite, feeble mind, I can’t be certain WHAT happens afterward, even if I ‘believed’ only a 5% chance that The Gospel IS true, I’m not willing to gamble with that!

That’s the long and short of it.  
 

And now . . back to, and on with the football show!

WHO DEY!!!

[AMPHAR]

These are FACTS

1. QB - Has MVP level stats

2. WR1 - Has MVP or OPOY stats

3. DE - Has DPOY stats

4. WR2- Will be on everyone's top FA list

5. HB1 - Pro Bowl Alternate

You can try to describe how all these players got here with out scouting.  Dumb luck, I guess.      

They didn't make the playoffs due to misssing out on wins vs KC, Ravens Game 1 and Game 2.   It is fact those games the Bengals held leads late and came down to the last play. 

This isn't fact, but rather opinion,  in all 3 games the Bengals were on the wrong end of officiating. 

Call it what you want.  Describe it however you wish.   In my opinion, IF you are seeing the same ole Bengals then you aren't looking very hard or even trying to look at the Bengals objectively.   Still mad at Mike Brown for Akili Smith? Lack of belief?  I don't know. 

Now this is a projection or a prediction.  When we all get geared up for 2025 the Bengals will be among the AFC contenders.   Because objectionable people will look at points 1-5 and other factors and determine them a contender.  Vegas will have them among the favorites in AFC and Superbowl odds.   So if they are a contender on paper then you kinda have to give some amount of credit to the front office.    

None of that guarantees success.   Now I don't know what the Bengals firing coaches we all have bitched about at one point or anoter tell you or anybody else; it tells me they are trying to win a Superbowl.   

The way I look at it is 2003 hiring Lewis was a major blow to Old Bengals, then 2010 with Tobin, then 2019 with Zac at all these points in time you can see better football operations.   They are way more fun to follow vs. 1991-2002, IMO. 

Edit: Coming full circle.  The article was dumb.  Being a Superbowl winning QB is very very hard from a probability standpoint. 

 

[gregcook68]

13 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

These are FACTS

1. QB - Has MVP level stats

2. WR1 - Has MVP or OPOY stats

3. DE - Has DPOY stats

4. WR2- Will be on everyone's top FA list

5. HB1 - Pro Bowl Alternate

You can try to describe how all these players got here with out scouting.  Dumb luck, I guess.      

They didn't make the playoffs due to misssing out on wins vs KC, Ravens Game 1 and Game 2.   It is fact those games the Bengals held leads late and came down to the last play. 

This isn't fact, but rather opinion,  in all 3 games the Bengals were on the wrong end of officiating. 

Call it what you want.  Describe it however you wish.   In my opinion, IF you are seeing the same ole Bengals then you aren't looking very hard or even trying to look at the Bengals objectively.   Still mad at Mike Brown for Akili Smith? Lack of belief?  I don't know. 

Now this is a projection or a prediction.  When we all get geared up for 2025 the Bengals will be among the AFC contenders.   Because objectionable people will look at points 1-5 and other factors and determine them a contender.   Which they did in 2022 and 2023.     So if they are a contender on paper then you kinda have to give some amount of credit to the front office.    

None of that guarantees success.   Now I don't know what the Bengals firing coaches we all have bitched about at one point or anoter tell you or anybody else; it tells me they are trying to win a Superbowl.  

 

Not sure how this has anything to do with my reply about coaches being fired ASAP, but I like how you think and communicate!

Do you have any coaching experience?

Ever think about dropping your name in Zac’s quest?

Being totally serious. You have done the research and seem to be in the mix!