2025 FA Thread: Rehkow 2y/2m | Rankins, Cappa Cut | Higgins 4y/115m | Chase 4y/161m | Hubbard Retires | Gesicki 3y/25.5m | Hill 3y/33m | Perine 2y/3.8m | Slayton 2y/15m | Ossai 1y/7m | Burks 2y/5m | Patrick 1y/2m

[Stripes]

I’m just glad to get a damned guard, and Patrick’s track record looks pretty decent.

Now sign Scherff anyway.

[COB]

I just saw Lucas Patrick unloading trucks at the Family Dollar store on East Main Street in Newark.

[HoosierCat]

3 hours ago, COB said:

I just saw Lucas Patrick unloading trucks at the Family Dollar store on East Main Street in Newark.

I think that was Quinton Spain. They’re easily confused.

[COB]

Russel Bodine, Billy Price, and Eric Ghiaciuc.

Names that will live in infamy.  

I throw those names out there not to trigger PTSD in your heads, not to bring up the CTE in their quarterbacks heads, but to illustrate what may be a major philosophical shift in the handling of the inside offensive linemen by Bengals management.  
 

The old way - draft a guy then you just play him almost no matter what.  All three of those guys struggled at times, were overmatched at times, and were just asked to do more than they could.  Didn’t matter to the bengals.  It was kind of like hey, “we’re not worrying about center or left guard or whatever, we got this guy on a 4 year deal and we’re good there.”  Meanwhile the poor guy is out there getting the living shit kicked out of him.  No help, no reinforcements, no free agent starters brought in.

The new way, which I will call the “Rental Tight End” model: bring in an inexpensive vet with a lot of experience who is desperate to extend his career.  It has certainly worked with the TE spot.  We know Burrow has a lot to do with that.  But it now looks like our new IOL, Lucas Patrick, could be this year’s rental tight end, but he’s a guard.  
 

I’m all for it.  The old way didn’t work.  At least with this method we aren’t married to the guy and if he falters we can try again.  
 

Scherff looms.  
 

[TJJackson]

everything I read says Patrick doesnt move the needle, isnt a starter

what I see from research is that he was the 54th best guard in the league in 2024, with Cappa at 110th and Volsen (who I still have hopes for) at 78th, so he does represent an improvement, particularly over Cappa

He's played about a quarter of his career at ORG, another quarter at OLG, and half at OC

So I think you can plug him in at Cappas ORG spot and leave OLG as a fight between Volsen and Cody

Kirkland becomes the swing OT, and the loser in the ORG battle becomes the swing Guard

Lee remains backup at OC and probably our starter there when Karras's contract ends

So I want more?  Sure.  But I can acknowledge we improved markedly for only 2.1M as well

But yeah, get me Dalton Risner next - 42nd rated overall, but in the top 15 for pass blocking

[COB]

Just saw a thing Rapien and another guy put on YouTube.  They’re completely pissed about the Dark Triad putting Chase’s  and Higgins’ bonus money this year in the form of roster bonus instead of signing bonus.  
 

They said it cost us a shitload in cap room this year.  And they kept saying, “the money’s the same, it makes no sense, why did they do this?”

I suspect if there were 11 million more in cap space they’d feel compelled to sign some more good vets.  That’s 11 million more out of the brown coffers this year.  This way, they’ve spent up to the cap, end of story.  

[Stripes]

That's pretty much it, yes. Goodberry even halfway called it "embezzlement".

It's not great. For every step "forward" toward modernity, they mask an entire faceplant back into ultra-cap conservatism and, if I am harsh enough in my assumptions, cheating the team and its fans.

These subtleties may have worked before mass social media and before there were 47 daily podcasts, but people catch on these days.

[TJJackson]

2 hours ago, COB said:

Just saw a thing Rapien and another guy put on YouTube.

Jake Liscow, the bearded one

[AMPHAR]

7 hours ago, COB said:

Just saw a thing Rapien and another guy put on YouTube.  They’re completely pissed about the Dark Triad putting Chase’s  and Higgins’ bonus money this year in the form of roster bonus instead of signing bonus.  
 

They said it cost us a shitload in cap room this year.  And they kept saying, “the money’s the same, it makes no sense, why did they do this?”

I suspect if there were 11 million more in cap space they’d feel compelled to sign some more good vets.  That’s 11 million more out of the brown coffers this year.  This way, they’ve spent up to the cap, end of story.  

They are idiots.   Bengals don't have 20% of the cap used up in dead cap.  Thus the Bengals don't need to push cash paid  this year into future years.

The trade off is having Chase/Higgins in reasonable situations in the outer years.  

For example: The Higgins deal will allow them to get out of the contract after 2 years.   IF they don't Higgins is only a $32m cap hit in year 3 and $36 year 4.    So you basically got a two year deal with a injury plagued player none of the cap hits are not unmanageable in his deal.  If he has his two best years they can keep for a 3rd.  If he's only 60% of snaps played they can move on from him.

That's the trade off the Bengals can evaluate Higgins's roster spot more on merit vs. an unreasonable cap hit years 3/4.  They are married to him for 2 years.

This is not hard to figure out and I can say that because its exactly what I posted on here several times.  The ideal contract for Higgins was something they could get out of after 2 years without major cap implications because he has had trouble staying on the field.

Quit listening to uninformed agenda driven social media.  They are never going to say the reality because it is boring and boring don't drive people out there to watch their videos.   

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

I think Rapien is a knucklehead and I don't care to listen to him.
Him and the other dude don't strike me as any more informed than the average fan.  Why listen?

I to was hopeful for the two year deal they could move away from and that's what we have with Tee.
I love looking at Spotrac once contracts are released, because I like the way they break it all down for you to see.
If Tee has two above average seasons in 2025 and 2026, paying him 32m in 2027 will look like chump change.
If he doesn't, they can walk away saving money as Tee is shown the door.  EXACTLY what I wanted.

Same thing (kind of) with Ja'Marr.  Except they are "married" to him for 4 seasons and even that is how it's viewed.
While there is an out for the Bengals in 2029, there is still savings to be had earlier if something crazy happened.
It's about how much savings makes the most sense.  I would bet an extension is in play earlier if all is good.
Knowing he could play though the 2029 season and still not be 30 years old makes me very happy.

I really don't get all the concern with paying both of these guys and it's been said here many times.
Who the hell else will they need to cough up big dough to in the next 2-3 seasons?
They have guys on their rookie deals and free agents they may or may not decide to keep down the road.
There's so much that could change, that it doesn't make any sense to worry about what if's at this point.

I'm happy knowing we don't have to worry about these guys for the coming few seasons and maybe more.
Chase, Tee and Gisicki signings will ensure this offense will remain fun to watch for some time.
Devote resources to Al Golden rebuilding the defense and roll with what you've got.  I'm good with that approach.

Or we could be the Steelers that are about to put the 2025 season into Rodgers hands.
If I'm a Steelers fan, there is nothing about that scenario that would make me excited about the upcoming season.
 

[HoosierCat]

For me, the bottom line is that the Bengals just spent a very un-Bengal-ish pile of money and I can't find it in my heart to get too upset about structure. (And by the same token, Shannon Sharpe can go fuck himself.)

 

[ArmyBengal]

It's like you have to choose which stick you want to be beaten with as a Bengals fan.

The Bengals are cheap or the Bengals are stupid.
For a long time, we had to deal with them being cheap AND stupid.

These signings were neither cheap or stupid in my opinion, but hey, choose a stick.
 

[Stripes]

Nobody is obligated to be upset, of course.

I do think it’s a problem to prioritize the avoidance of dead money in future years over the ability to build a team this year when 1) the cap will only continue going up and 2) Joe Burrow is in his prime right now. It’s ultra-conservative to a degree that is rarely observed elsewhere in the league (for a reason).

[ArmyBengal]

I was looking at the side by side of the Jefferson and Chase contracts, since we can do that now.

Justin Jefferson's deal last year was a 4 year, $140m contract and he got $88.7 guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits:
2024- $8.6m
2025- $15.1m
2026- $38.9m
2027- $43.4m
Potential Out in 2028 looking at a cap hit of $47.4m

Ja'Marr Chase's deal this year was a 4 year, $161m contract and he got $73.9 guaranteed at signing.
Cap Hits:
2025- $23.5m
2026- $26.2m
2027- $33.4m
2028- $41.4m
Potential Out in 2029 looking at a cap hit of $53.2m.

So when looking at what they got guaranteed at signing and their cap hits over the first three seasons, Chase is going to make 5.7 more than the Vikings will pay Jefferson over that time frame.

Here's what I will admit to not understanding...
Does the higher signing bonus (Jefferson) allow the Vikings to have more space over the first couple seasons?
If that's the case, I can see the argument somewhat, but they never stop roster building.  We save money later.
Is now better than later?  Is it really an apples to apples comparison.  How many star players does a team have?

[ArmyBengal]

I also love how people say, "All they had to do is.....".

The of the matter is, whoever is saying that has no true idea if that is factual.
Example, "All they had to do is structure Chase's contract differently and spread out the cost".

However, any one remotely paying attention last year knew the reason the contract didn't get done then was due to the structure.  So you want to give them credit for signing the player, but hate the structure.  Well what do you want more?  Do you want the player under THIS structure or not at all?  I guarantee someone would have paid Higgins more.  Some team would have paid Chase more and they wouldn't think twice.

Also when it comes to saying "Did the Bengals do enough?" it's like there's no credit for bringing back the players they did.
Gisicki was a free agency, BJ Hill was a free agent.  Don't want to pay guys like that because you saw what happened when they were on the team last year?  Great, but you have to find someone else to fill those roles.  Any time spent with the Bengals will prove that you cannot simply find a guy out there that is going to give you more than you had previously and certainly not at a lower cost.

We all want all super star players willing to take a reduced contract, but that's not the reality of the situation.
I just wish these guys would stop speaking in absolutes, when they don't even know the inside pieces.

[HoosierCat]

Yes, putting more money into the SB (like Jefferson) instead of option bonuses means more space in the early years, since you can amortize signing bonuses, but not option bonuses, over the lifetime of the deal. And yes that also means higher hits later on. For example, both Chase and Justin could be cut by their respective teams as soon as 2027, but the Vikings would only gain $10 million in cap space versus $20 million for Cincy. It's definitely the more conservative choice but it's not indefensible.

The other thing to note is that they have just a skosh under $24 million in cap space now. Cap space continues to be not really an issue.

[AMPHAR]

47 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

I was looking at the side by side of the Jefferson and Chase contracts, since we can do that now.

Justin Jefferson's deal last year was a 4 year, $140m contract and he got $88.7 guaranteed at signing.
Cap hits:
2024- $8.6m
2025- $15.1m
2026- $38.9m
2027- $43.4m
Potential Out in 2028 looking at a cap hit of $47.4m

Ja'Marr Chase's deal this year was a 4 year, $161m contract and he got $73.9 guaranteed at signing.
Cap Hits:
2025- $23.5m
2026- $26.2m
2027- $33.4m
2028- $41.4m
Potential Out in 2029 looking at a cap hit of $53.2m.

So when looking at what they got guaranteed at signing and their cap hits over the first three seasons, Chase is going to make 5.7 more than the Vikings will pay Jefferson over that time frame.

Here's what I will admit to not understanding...
Does the higher signing bonus (Jefferson) allow the Vikings to have more space over the first couple seasons?
If that's the case, I can see the argument somewhat, but they never stop roster building.  We save money later.
Is now better than later?  Is it really an apples to apples comparison.  How many star players does a team have?

Vikings had $70m of dead cap when they did JJ deal.   Mainly dealing with Kirk Cousins.   That was about 27% or 28% of the cap.   In that year. That forced them to push more cap in the back years with JJ.    Which could present a problem for them in 2027/2028

Where as the Bengals got two WRs under contract and probably only have 1 problematic year with Chase (but also $40m of potential cap savings).

That's the advantage of dead cap elimination.    Rapien or whoever's rants are idiotic because 1st they need drama to get views 2nd you have to pay attention and reconcile numbers which they probably don't have the skills to do so to recognize multi year cap strategy.

 

Finally the Bengals could sign a handful of FAs with the cap room they have now without cap gymnastics.   Cap room isn't an issue.   Its probably most likely the guys available are only going to become options as the price goes down OR they don't get the guys they wanted in the draft.

Its a little clearer when you realize the the franchise is trying to win instead of buying into the cheap narrative. 

 

 

[TJJackson]

4 hours ago, ArmyBengal said:

I think Rapien is a knucklehead and I don't care to listen to him.
Him and the other dude don't strike me as any more informed than the average fan.  Why listen?

the other guy (Jake Liscow) is particularly knowledgeable of how the cap works, fwiw

[ArmyBengal]

49 minutes ago, TJJackson said:

the other guy (Jake Liscow) is particularly knowledgeable of how the cap works, fwiw

Ok, there you go.  I wasn't aware of his knowledge base.

That being said, I still think it's hard to apply one's particular knowledge of a situation to what actually happened with a player and their agent when in negotiations they were not a part of.  

Rapien may think "All they had to do was this" and they could have saved "X" amount of money.
However, they have no idea if the players and/or the agent would have wanted it that way.
If they didn't, maybe the deal doesn't get done.  It's speculation at best.

 

[Stripes]

Rapien is a doofus. Liscow is kind of a dick, but he is definitely not a clickbait artist (that criticism is pure laziness).

[HoosierCat]

Anyhow, on to the other subject of excessive interest, Trey Hendrickson, the latest is news is that there's really no news. Just speculation built on random comments from various media types. Though the general bent is still towards the team and Hendrickson getting something done.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2025/3/24/24393007/trey-hendrickson-contract-talks-bengals-colts-trade-rumors-nfl

[COB]

I read two different sources say the following while we were waiting for the chase and Higgins deals:  I’m paraphrasing, but it was essentially “of course the bengals are going to pay these guys, they have no one else they can throw this kind of money at, and they need to get up to the cap.”

Which begs the question, why save all this cap room for down the road when this family of farmers trying to run this thing won’t keep their good players to even pay up on a second or third deal?  The hopeful answer to my rhetorical question is that by then there will be guys worthy of good deals, we’ve just whiffed on a bunch of draft picks lately.  
 

I’m glad we kept our skill players together.  When you think about qb, our receivers, and our (very underrated) young RB, we might have the best set of skill players in the league.  
BUT - we’ve done very little personnel-wise to fix our nearly league worst defense, and our o-line still looks a lot like it did last year.  It almost feels like the team is putting all the responsibility on the coaches they replaced, and putting a ton of pressure on new guys Golden and Peters.  I hope it works, but we should have done more.  
 

[COB]

23 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Anyhow, on to the other subject of excessive interest, Trey Hendrickson, the latest is news is that there's really no news. Just speculation built on random comments from various media types. Though the general bent is still towards the team and Hendrickson getting something done.

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2025/3/24/24393007/trey-hendrickson-contract-talks-bengals-colts-trade-rumors-nfl

Trey complained two years ago, “give me a raise and an extension.”  We did it.  The next year, again he said “give me a raise and an extension,” again we did it.  Dude never wants to play on his existing deal.  

[ArmyBengal]

If Dax and Myles Murphy were linchpins for the defense, this whole scenario would look different.

Dax would be entering the year before his club option decision was looming and the team trying to figure out how to pay him.

Myles Murphy would make the Trey situation look much different and have the team to looking for his replacement in the draft, without thought of paying him market money. Even if the light goes on for Myles this year, they have him locked up for three seasons including the option year.

Since that is not the case, they could afford to pay both Chase and Tee, because, well… who else are you going to pay?

[HoosierCat]

From my bookface group:

Another update between the Bengals and Trey Hendrickson. This time from Jordan Schultz.

Link for the video: https://x.com/Schultz_Report/status/1904648022874615848?t=o8WdiWwUoL318F8f-lidOg&s=19

TL;DR: The Bengals Ownership/Front Office want to move forward with negotiations for Trey. The trade idea is dead, and they want to keep him on the Roster. Only issue is finding a number both sides can agree on money-wise.