ArmyBengal Posted March 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, TJJackson said: But we're not there yet We will be brother. We will be !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, TJJackson said: If Jonah works out as the 1 year rental at ORT and the heir apparent ORT rookie is groomed this year and ready to go by years end, I will happily declare this all to be a brilliant success But we're not there yet Collins isn’t going anywhere so I think we are going with him/Jonah/Adenji this year. They may draft a prospect but now probably not until the third earliest imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, Stripes said: Maybe Jonah moves. Maybe he’s traded. Maybe RT is still in flux for a bit with Collins hurt. I don’t care. A massively important position has just been upgraded for a team in Super Bowl contention. Joe Burrow is going to shred the league in 2023. Insert Mandolorian “this is the way” gif here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 7 hours ago, HoosierCat said: If you’re down with some EPIC butthurt tonight: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=347998 yeah that's the best part. Everyone of those clowns would love him if the Cheifs paid him more last year. Now they are taking a sub par RT moving to LT and paying more to do it. Just a huge fucking win for this arms race in the AFC. Plus it makes 2024 off season so much easier on offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 Is Jonah more valuable in trade or position move? It would be hard to think a team trades anything of significance for a LT coming off a knee surgery that counts $12m against your cap. Also is there a possibility the shock move with Brown is in response to that surgery? If they are only getting a 5th, 6th, 7th rounder, I would almost like to see if he could transition somewhere. But a trade removes that $12m cap hit. Collins might save them a roster spot for a while with PUP list. Someone eventually will have to switch positions and bump a guard or be cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 By all reports Jonah should be good to go by this fall. Collins is a much bigger question. Conventional wisdom is that he won’t be ready to start the season and might not make it back on the field at all. If they were going to cut either of them LC is probably the one. Would free up $6 million against the cap. OTOH we saw what happened late last year when injuries killed the line. If LC can return by, say, December, he’d be valuable insurance against that happening again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 So AT THIS POINT, it's definitely Brown at LT and Williams at RT. Obviously that could change. I have never hated on Williams, but couldn't see paying him the money he will get as a starting LT. Having him move to the RT spot is FAR more appealing then having Carman "compete" for that spot. If Williams leaves in 2024, we still have Collins (minus them letting him go due to injury) through that season and allows for some breathing room. Locking down Burrow's blindside for the next 4 years with one of the best at his position for the price of Bates is like hitting the lottery two or three times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 ESPN+ insta-grade: Quote Bengals sign OT Orlando Brown Jr. The deal: Four years, $64 million ($43.5 million guaranteed) Grade: A When you look at the contract numbers, keep in mind that this same offseason Jawaan Taylor received $80 million over four years and Mike McGlinchey received $87.5 million over five years. Brown is the best tackle of the three and the only one who has played left tackle in the NFL. And on a per-year basis, he is being paid the least. An average of $16 million per year for a good 26-year-old left tackle is plenty palatable. Brown's 92% pass block win rate at tackle ranked 18th out of 64 tackles -- McGlinchey was 32nd and Taylor was 37th -- but he also did it with double-team help just 27% of the time, the fourth-lowest rate. His run block win rate was average (significantly worse than McGlinchey, but significantly better than Taylor). Crucially, the Bengals' need here was massive. The idea that their offensive line cost them at the end of last season because of injuries isn't quite right; the line wasn't all that good to begin with, particularly at tackle. Jonah Williams and La'el Collins had pass block win rates of 84% (55th) and 81% (57th) last season, respectively. Bringing in Brown is a huge step forward in fixing the biggest problem for a Super Bowl contender. -- Walder What this means for the 2023 draft: With offensive tackle checked off the needs list, the Bengals could now pivot toward tight end, safety and cornerback at the draft. They have seven selections in 2023 --including No. 28 overall -- and the franchise could go in multiple directions. In a strong tight end class, Dalton Kincaid (Utah) and Michael Mayer (Notre Dame) stand out in the first round, while Luke Musgrave (Oregon State), Tucker Kraft (South Dakota State) and Sam LaPorta (Iowa) are considered to be solid Day 2 options. -- Reid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 Reid must have ignored Darnell Washington at TE like I did initially. If there is a TE target, that guy moved to my #1 quickly. He can catch, but has the size and strength of another o-lineman to block. YES PLEASE !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 Worth revisiting this Sheeran piece from 2020: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2020/5/7/21248162/bengals-jonah-williams-right-tackle-fred-johnson-left-tackle Quote Coincidentally, Williams hasn’t played right tackle since that same year in the same collegiate conference. He was an 18-year old true freshman protecting quarterback Jalen Hurts’ frontside while future second-round pick Cam Robinson guarded Hurts’ blindside. His production at that age against SEC defenses in a 15-game season culminating in a National Championship appearance was nothing short of impressive. Jonah Williams as a freshman at RT (among qualifying FBS tackles) 1,014 snaps (510 pass-blocking) 76.2 @PFF grade (29th/101) 78.9 pass-blocking grade (35th) 73.7 run-blocking grade (34th) 15 total pressures allowed (4 sack, 3 hits) 98.1 Pass-blocking efficiency (T-28th/169) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 8 hours ago, HoosierCat said: If you’re down with some EPIC butthurt tonight: https://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=347998 I couldn't make it past the 4th page. Must still be pissed giving up a 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th and then watching him walk while taking far less. Maybe he simply didn't like playing there. I don't know or care. I'm just happy we have him. Love all the comments about how bad he sucked. Enjoy Jawaan Taylor Chiefs fans !! Hilarious... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said: So AT THIS POINT, it's definitely Brown at LT and Williams at RT. Obviously that could change. I have never hated on Williams, but couldn't see paying him the money he will get as a starting LT. Having him move to the RT spot is FAR more appealing then having Carman "compete" for that spot. If Williams leaves in 2024, we still have Collins (minus them letting him go due to injury) through that season and allows for some breathing room. Locking down Burrow's blindside for the next 4 years with one of the best at his position for the price of Bates is like hitting the lottery two or three times. I don't really know but you can't look past the power Carman has put on film and he's done it at several spots. Yet, something has kept him on the bench. I would say even with Brown on the roster the largest upside still resides with Carman. Can he put it all together and become a reliable starter? Super excited about Brown. Not real excited about another shuffling of the line but there will be change again. Hopefully they gel faster than last year whatever spots they end up in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 39 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said: I couldn't make it past the 4th page. Must still be pissed giving up a 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th and then watching him walk while taking far less. Maybe he simply didn't like playing there. I don't know or care. I'm just happy we have him. Love all the comments about how bad he sucked. Enjoy Jawaan Taylor Chiefs fans !! Hilarious... Clearly Chief fans have the most accurate take on Orlando, no emotion at all. Ignore the fact they trade a 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th round picks. Ignore the fact that very same front office tried to extend him and couldn't so they tagged him. Ignore the fact that he massively improved their Left Tackle position. But yeah Brown clearly isn't very good. I'd be willing to trade them Jonah Williams for just a 3rd and 4th if they feel like Brown is a downgrade. The only take they should be giving right now is they once identified an elite talent at LT and they can do it again with Taylor. Although I think that move is critical for them and not a given its improved at all. Then they also lost the RT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 The chiefs gave up a 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th for Orlando Brown? And now he walks and they get nothing? That is astounding. That GM has some explaining to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 Guard Cody Ford at the facility. Still looking to sign OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 16, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 I root for Carman, despite thinking he's not a good person. I can set that aside when rooting for the laundry. That being said, I will give him credit for the Bills playoff game last year. It was fun watching him muscle his will on the Bills defense. However, that was the only time he's done that with consistency. Him getting beat out for the starting LG spot by a 4th round rookie from North Dakota, should have lit a fire under his ass. I'm still rooting for him to get better, but he's not a better option than any of those players ahead of him at any o-line position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 17 minutes ago, COB said: Guard Cody Ford at the facility. Still looking to sign OL. Meh, how many more sub-par Guards can you fit on a roster? Guy hasn't been able to break a starting lineup and I don't see Pollack developing anybody here. He can play RT and G, which is fine, but probably a minor upgrade to Carman and Volson if that. There's certainly a chance he could take-off this season, but I'd prefer some proven experience here in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, COB said: Guard Cody Ford at the facility. Still looking to sign OL. The story I remember is they attempted to trade up for him the draft and couldn't. Ended up drafting Micheal Jordan. He was up and down with the Buffalo Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 47 minutes ago, ShulaSteakhouse said: Meh, how many more sub-par Guards can you fit on a roster? Guy hasn't been able to break a starting lineup and I don't see Pollack developing anybody here. He can play RT and G, which is fine, but probably a minor upgrade to Carman and Volson if that. There's certainly a chance he could take-off this season, but I'd prefer some proven experience here in FA. Maybe a Scharping replacement for depth? Maybe a kick the tires and see down the road type thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 One of the local media guys before Free Agency started suggested that Line coaches around the league openly admit they have trouble projecting college tackles into the NFL. So he said the Bengals could dip their toe in Free Agency Tackle pool and use the first round pick on different position group just because of the confidence level of lack of one in projecting tackles. I thought there was no way in hell Bengals would be throwing major cap dollars at free agent tackles available below Brown. Never would have thought they'd go top shelf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 10 minutes ago, AMPHAR said: One of the local media guys before Free Agency started suggested that Line coaches around the league openly admit they have trouble projecting college tackles into the NFL. So he said the Bengals could dip their toe in Free Agency Tackle pool and use the first round pick on different position group just because of the confidence level of lack of one in projecting tackles. I thought there was no way in hell Bengals would be throwing major cap dollars at free agent tackles available below Brown. Never would have thought they'd go top shelf. Sounds about right on drafting vs FA. Bengals' have really switched gears there with all of the o-line failed draft picks of late. The DT's and Edge guys are so freaky these days, wonder when OT's are going to start looking more like slower DE's vs the old school fatso's. Right now I'm assuming they may move Jonah to RT and/or cut Collins and Mixon to pay for Brown's front-loaded salary. Who knows if/when Collins' will be back and be effective again, desperation signing last year, if you can move on from it and save $$, do it, IMO. Draft a guy if you have to, will probably be just as good or better at this point (despite the above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 Yea it is really difficult to predict tackle success. Brown is like a mid level success, and he was a 4th rounder. Meanwhile if you could get his level of success out of a first rounder you’d take it any day. One thing of note - I saw a stat that said Brown had like the 18th grade last year in the league on pass blocking. And the salary the bengals gave him ranks him like about 18th, right in there. Which is a huge win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 21 minutes ago, COB said: Yea it is really difficult to predict tackle success. Brown is like a mid level success, and he was a 4th rounder. Meanwhile if you could get his level of success out of a first rounder you’d take it any day. One thing of note - I saw a stat that said Brown had like the 18th grade last year in the league on pass blocking. And the salary the bengals gave him ranks him like about 18th, right in there. Which is a huge win. Yeah actually 17th in salary I think, it's not a bad deal despite the upfront $$. His grade is skewed, from what I understand, because he had more true pass blocking sets than any other LT in the league last year, and in a quick-pass offense like the Bengals', he will do better than blocking for someone running around holding onto the ball a lot etc.., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 KC threw for 5,000 yards. KC has a great play extender at QB. They run all kinds of formations and route concepts. I don't think rankings of tackles without these considerations are worth a damn. Teams can protect an average QB and their overall production will suffer but the individual lineman grades can go up. We saw this with Brian Finley experiment. They inserted him in the line up. Called the game to protect him. They would struggle to put more than 1 TD on the board, yet the O-line grades improved. With these rankings that have him 17th. What would it look like if you threw out any tackle on a team that didn't have 4,000 yards passing? Overall production has to be considered in deciding who's is the best. Or I guess what's best for the Bengals because they are going to put the game on Joe's shoulders. Brown is probably the best left tackle in the league for that. How can you compare him to a Left Tackle that's been blocking for Lamar Jackson? Block for an offense that relies on Henry? Different worlds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Bengal Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 I'm calling first round pick is a TE unless someone more valuable falls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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