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HoosierCat

Round 2 Pick: Jackson Carman, OT, Clemson

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Pollack has declared he is in mix for starting guard this year Possible RT in future. 
 

Dabo Swinny declares he is day 1 starter.  Ready to provide impact like Tee Higgins

 

That releases some concern of mine because he was sounding like a project.

 

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42 minutes ago, princeton said:

this pick felt a lot like the Drew Sample pick. 

He’s so much better than that. He’s going to be a monster at guard. 

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Guys, he was Lawrence’s blindside and gave up just five sacks and 25 pressures in 950 chances in his career and he is just 21. He played young and in huge games in his career. He’s powerful as hell, he just has short arms for LT. He’s gonna be a great guard. That’s the only reason I would have preferred him in third - that he’s likely a guard. But he’s good and should play very soon if not right away. 
 

on top of all that, he worked with Willie and Willie vouches for his talent. That means something to me.

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I’m fine with the pick. I know it’s not one of the names we’ve generally tossed around, but I have seen Carmen pop up in mocks occasionally. Walterfootball was very high on him and actually had him going to Cincy in round 2 (unsurprisingly they gave the pick an A+). So I say let’s wait and see. If he earns a starting job no one will care when he was drafted, and if he busts we can add him to the long list of “Bengals thought they were smarter than everyone else” picks.

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Mel’s not a big fan:

Quote

• Jackson Carman (No. 46) is my 13th-ranked offensive tackle, and the Bengals took him over Dillon Radunz, Jalen Mayfield and Spencer Brown. He was just OK as Trevor Lawrence's blindside protector the past two seasons. Carman also had a back issue that I thought might see him drop to Round 3. Could he play guard? I'm not sure he can get on the field early for Cincinnati, which has Jonah Williams and Riley Reiff as its tackle starters.

 

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On 5/1/2021 at 8:34 AM, HoosierCat said:

Mel’s not a big fan:

 

Mel’s take has him as an OT but we all know they are going to put him at G and let him back up OT.  We shouldn’t forget about Adeneji who was a later rounds pick up last year.  He has the technique to be a good pro.  He was thrown into the fire with the injuries and bad play last year.  Now you’ve got Adeneji, Price, Carman, Spain, XSF, Jordan, Johnson alll battling it out to get a roster spot....

that’s a battle between : 5th round, 1st round, 2nd round, UDFA, 2nd round, 4th round, UDFA

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Mel is clearly viewing him as a tackle.  Bengals are viewing him as guard starting out. 

Still don’t know about this pick.   Just have to wait and see.  See if actually can displaces some guard out of a job. 

 

I don’t like Bengals taking pure guard with a top 50 pick.  Don’t have a great history of paying them after rookie contract.  However it was pick 46 and got two extra top 150 picks.   

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First, Mel can go suck eggs....

Carman was number 46 on PFF's draft board getting him and two additional fourth round picks is awesome value in the second round.  He is going work his tail off and get great coaching, I am more than fine with this pick.  Ultimately it was getting one if the top guys on oline in the second and we did that.  The only downside to me is Teven Jenkins is a hell of a player...I still feel they would have been better to stick at 38 and taken him.

We could be celebrating Jenkins and Quinn Meinerz or Kendrick Green.  We got really good players I just would have done things differently.

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You all remember or can find when I posted McGinn’s scouting confidential for o-line? The scouts he surveyed put Carmen at SECOND overall at guard behind VT...

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This is a wait and see pick, the fourth round picks will decide if it was worth trading back

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Hey - did you all hear/see the reported measurement of him with sub 33” arms is wrong? Paul Alexander said he measured him at 33 1/4 and that was verified by another party. 

i have him sticking at guard but if his measurements really are 33 1/4 for arms he could definitely help back-up tackle spots.

"I measured his arms at 33 1/4", the 32 1/2 measurement was wrong. The 33 1/4 was later confirmed on April 15th. Same thing happened with Joe Thomas' measurements."

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Every scout knows Paul counts the nose of Heinz bottle when measuring arm length.  

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1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

Every scout knows Paul counts the nose of Heinz bottle when measuring arm length.  

Right? Hehe 

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45 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Really good stuff in this thread:

 

maybe I'm missing something but don't most OL look pretty great on a play like this? 

a friend sent me a clip yesterday where Carman dances with his guy a bit like Whit could, but then Carman suddenly just falls down for no apparent reason. I know, I know--  it's just one play out of thousands. But Whit does not fall down

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36 minutes ago, princeton said:

maybe I'm missing something but don't most OL look pretty great on a play like this? 

Maybe you should go look at the whole thread.

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1 hour ago, HoosierCat said:

Maybe you should go look at the whole thread.

ah, click the birdie not the arrow-- yes that's better

Overall I like Carman's feet and of course he has that awesome punch. He does look top heavy and might lose balance-- maybe this has been solved by back surgery.  it'd be interesting to see if he could handle a short quick tackle like Geno

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He played five games with the back issue. That’s quite something. I think he’s gonna fit in great at guard. Again, the McGinn piece I pasted in here pre-draft had him as second ranked guard by the insider scouts he surveyed, behind only AVT. 

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I think it speaks volumes that they identified him early and did their homework.  It really doesn't matter what Mel Kiper, or Daniel Jeremiah, or I think of the prospect, only what the coaches think.  Frank Pollack has been coaching offensive line for 40 years, seen it all and stuck his neck out to draft this guy.  They spoke to his line coach in college, his head coach in college, his HS coaches, the guys that he was training with and his surgeon.  They had many zoom meetings and decided that out of a very deep offensive lineman pool Carman was the guy they needed.  They didn't panic and just took the next guy on their list and they didn't half ass the preparation.  This is their guy and I am perfectly comfortable with the process they used to choose him.

And one other thing,.  People are talking about this as a huge reach.  I have seen no mock draft that did not have Carman drafted in the second or third rounds, at pick #46 that was not a reach....it would have been at #38 so kudos to the draft team analyzing the board dropping down, getting extra impactful draft capital, and still getting the guy they wanted.

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1 hour ago, princeton said:

ah, click the birdie not the arrow-- yes that's better

Overall I like Carman's feet and of course he has that awesome punch. He does look top heavy and might lose balance-- maybe this has been solved by back surgery.  it'd be interesting to see if he could handle a short quick tackle like Geno

I think so. Like that one example in the thread showed it’s the longer guys with long arms who can beat him if they get a hand inside. That should be less of an issue if he moves inside. But my understanding is that he’s never played guard so only time will tell.

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1 hour ago, membengal said:

He played five games with the back issue. That’s quite something. I think he’s gonna fit in great at guard. Again, the McGinn piece I pasted in here pre-draft had him as second ranked guard by the insider scouts he surveyed, behind only AVT. 

Fwiw here’s ourlads’ OT rankings. Pretty good showing.

1 Penei Sewell Oregon
2 Rashawn Slater Northwestern
3 Christian Darrisaw Virginia Tech
4 Jalen Mayfield Michigan
5 Jackson Carman Clemson
6 Dillon Radunz North Dakota State
7 Spencer Brown Northern Iowa
8 Liam Eichenberg Notre Dame
9 Teven Jenkins Oklahoma State
10 Samuel Cosmi Texas
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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

I think it speaks volumes that they identified him early and did their homework.  It really doesn't matter what Mel Kiper, or Daniel Jeremiah, or I think of the prospect, only what the coaches think.  Frank Pollack has been coaching offensive line for 40 years, seen it all and stuck his neck out to draft this guy.  They spoke to his line coach in college, his head coach in college, his HS coaches, the guys that he was training with and his surgeon.  They had many zoom meetings and decided that out of a very deep offensive lineman pool Carman was the guy they needed.  They didn't panic and just took the next guy on their list and they didn't half ass the preparation.  This is their guy and I am perfectly comfortable with the process they used to choose him.

And one other thing,.  People are talking about this as a huge reach.  I have seen no mock draft that did not have Carman drafted in the second or third rounds, at pick #46 that was not a reach....it would have been at #38 so kudos to the draft team analyzing the board dropping down, getting extra impactful draft capital, and still getting the guy they wanted.

Yeah, I would have been aggravated at 38 but at 46 plus two picks, yeah, no sweat.

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I mean, what insane value on trading back 8 spots and getting two 4ths this year. Everyone (including me) said PFF trade algorithm on its mock simulator as being unrealistic and too easy on accepting trades that felt lopsided but I am not certain that I could have talked it into that deal. 

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Belicheck really wanted that DT ... reminded me of when bengals went up for Bodine.  

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