2020 Draft

[cincyhokie]

1 hour ago, AMPHAR said:

How do the Steelers get up in front of them without a first rounder? 

I’m working from a mock that all have Tua at 5. 

So if a team can jump the Bengals at five then they can jump the Phins at five so maybe 3 first rounders is too light? 

 

Maybe. But there are 7 other teams that could. Namely the Panthers and Chargers who are already in the top 10. And the Raiders who I think still have a lot of draft capital.

[HoosierCat]

2 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

How do the Steelers get up in front of them without a first rounder? 

Trade players? Future picks? Maybe the owner of one of the teams in front of us is into fat ugly chicks with no teeth? Pittsburgh has those to spare. Be creative!

[AMPHAR]

I think Raiders would over pay because the draft is in Vegas and they’ll want to make a splash 

[AMPHAR]

So let's play dooms day scenario with trade down.   Using that same DraftTek mock

Bengals trade with the Fins and get their 3 first rounders.   However,  Tua is taken above pick 5 unexpectedly.  

Using that mock you still have Herbert to chose from.   A slew of CBs and DLs.    But you also have Simmons.

At that point I would be tempted to grab Simmons and the linemen.     But based on that mock you are probably shut out of the premium QBs and thus return to Dalton.    In return I think you've landed 3 out of the box impact starters with a high probability of being Pro Bowlers.

Then you've definitely set up Mixon to be as successful as possible. 

Again Door #1 - Burrow is we know and expect to be great.   The more I read up on Becton the more I think he won't be there at #33, but using this mock he is and really makes that draft complete.   The best Qb prospect AND a high potential tackle.  

Door #2 Tua, Wills, Biadasz.   Once best Qb prospect with injury concerns.  Build the line. 

So Door #3 could be Simmons, Wills, Biadasz.  - Return to Dalton. 

Door #4 Herbert, Wills, Biadasz.  - Still got a high quality QB prospect and built the line. 

It's a tough choice for me.  All of these scenarios would have me happy on draft day.    Although the mock used as a basis of these scenarios will change a lot after FA and Combine and pro days.

 

[HoosierCat]

In shocking, totally unexpected breaking news...

 

[membengal]

Glad to see the Bengals have coaches on staff who have eyes. Still, glad to start seeing those kinds of notes and confirmations. 

[HoosierCat]

4 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

All of these scenarios would have me happy on draft day.

Me too. I mean, if your choice is either the first overall or three first round picks, it’s hard to come out of draft day unhappy. I won’t cry if they pick Burrow and I won’t cry if Miami offers its three 1sts and the Bengals end up with four picks in the top 33. Both would be good days.

[cincyhokie]

2 minutes ago, HoosierCat said:

Me too. I mean, if your choice is either the first overall or three first round picks, it’s hard to come out of draft day unhappy. I won’t cry if they pick Burrow and I won’t cry if Miami offers its three 1sts and the Bengals end up with four picks in the top 33. Both would be good days.

If the Bengals don't end up with Burrow, or at least Tua, I will be really disappointed. But moreso if they miss out on Burrow. I really see as Burrow as not only the best QB but the best option the Bengals have in changing their culture.

We all know Mike isn't stepping down. So what else can really shift things up? Not any old QB is going to do it. Again, think what Drew Brees meant to the Saints in 2006 and where they were before he arrived.

[HoosierCat]

5 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

If the Bengals don't end up with Burrow, or at least Tua, I will be really disappointed. But moreso if they miss out on Burrow. I really see as Burrow as not only the best QB but the best option the Bengals have in changing their culture.

We all know Mike isn't stepping down. So what else can really shift things up? Not any old QB is going to do it. Again, think what Drew Brees meant to the Saints in 2006 and where they were before he arrived.

I 100% get that and like I said, I’d be fine if their total participation of day one of the draft was to take Burrow first overall. The counter is simply four premium picks (counting 33) would allow a huge infusion of talent and provide some security from the kind of freak BS that haunts this franchise, like the season ending injury in practice that happened to our last first rounder.

End of the day, I agree with you, just take Burrow and move on. If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out, but you took the shot. I’m just saying that if this hypothetical Miami offer actually happened, I wouldn’t be put out. And if they did it and somehow still managed to land Tua at 5, that’d be great. And it’s probably also why it won’t happen, since Miami will be thinking they can get Tua and keep all their picks.

[cincyhokie]

1 minute ago, HoosierCat said:

I 100% get that and like I said, I’d be fine if their total participation of day one of the draft was to take Burrow first overall. The counter is simply four premium picks (counting 33) would allow a huge infusion of talent and provide some security from the kind of freak BS that haunts this franchise, like the season ending injury in practice that happened to our last first rounder.

End of the day, I agree with you, just take Burrow and move on. If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out, but you took the shot. I’m just saying that if this hypothetical Miami offer actually happened, I wouldn’t be put out. And if they did it and somehow still managed to land Tua at 5, that’d be great. And it’s probably also why it won’t happen, since Miami will be thinking they can get Tua and keep all their picks.

I agree. And I wonder if Miami doesn't have to move up to 3 or 4 to make sure they get Tua. Assuming Tua impresses in his workouts.

[membengal]

I don't want any package for Burrow. And I think people trying to find some are just bored. 

It's Burrow, as it should be. There's no package that they should consider to trade back.  Not only that, but given their sketchy history on hitting on premium picks, passing Burrow to take more players that they could just as easily miss on while passing on Burrow who has a really high floor and a crazy high ceiling is nonsensical. Burrow is protection against them making dumb selections, the other path gives them multiple chances to screw up the draft. 

[cincyhokie]

5 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

So let's play dooms day scenario with trade down.   Using that same DraftTek mock

Bengals trade with the Fins and get their 3 first rounders.   However,  Tua is taken above pick 5 unexpectedly.  

Using that mock you still have Herbert to chose from.   A slew of CBs and DLs.    But you also have Simmons.

At that point I would be tempted to grab Simmons and the linemen.     But based on that mock you are probably shut out of the premium QBs and thus return to Dalton.    In return I think you've landed 3 out of the box impact starters with a high probability of being Pro Bowlers.

Then you've definitely set up Mixon to be as successful as possible. 

Again Door #1 - Burrow is we know and expect to be great.   The more I read up on Becton the more I think he won't be there at #33, but using this mock he is and really makes that draft complete.   The best Qb prospect AND a high potential tackle.  

Door #2 Tua, Wills, Biadasz.   Once best Qb prospect with injury concerns.  Build the line. 

So Door #3 could be Simmons, Wills, Biadasz.  - Return to Dalton. 

Door #4 Herbert, Wills, Biadasz.  - Still got a high quality QB prospect and built the line. 

It's a tough choice for me.  All of these scenarios would have me happy on draft day.    Although the mock used as a basis of these scenarios will change a lot after FA and Combine and pro days.

 

A return to Dalton would be almost unacceptable. The only saving grace would be that it would be his very last year. But either way...NO THANKS.

[membengal]

By the way, the early takes on Biadsz are pretty brutal. Comps to Billy Price. Just an FYI.

[cincyhokie]

I seriously wonder, and this is no shot to anyone here, but I wonder if there is a misunderstanding about how organizations turn it around. 

1. Coaching?

2. The draft?

3. The front office?

4. A star QB?

Of those 4, the only one guarantee is that they can TAKE the star QB. Will he turn out to be Joe Montana? We don't know. But you HAVE to take the shot. I honestly don't even know why there is any question at all here. I'll save the intangibles. BUT the guy has IT. Not Tua, not Herbert, non of the rest of those guys have what I think it would take to turn this organization around.

[AMPHAR]

28 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

A return to Dalton would be almost unacceptable. The only saving grace would be that it would be his very last year. But either way...NO THANKS.

I agree to a point.  I think they need to get a QB early out of this draft.   However,  if the reason I'm staying with Dalton is because I landed those 3 players.    I can live with that.

 

[AMPHAR]

41 minutes ago, membengal said:

By the way, the early takes on Biadsz are pretty brutal. Comps to Billy Price. Just an FYI.

Not sure what you are reading but I've read stuff that he was a top lineman last year before returning and has only elevated that stock.   Some have him as the best offensive linemen in this draft.    Some have mention Nelson from Indy type prospect.

 

[AMPHAR]

28 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

I seriously wonder, and this is no shot to anyone here, but I wonder if there is a misunderstanding about how organizations turn it around. 

1. Coaching?

2. The draft?

3. The front office?

4. A star QB?

Of those 4, the only one guarantee is that they can TAKE the star QB. Will he turn out to be Joe Montana? We don't know. But you HAVE to take the shot. I honestly don't even know why there is any question at all here. I'll save the intangibles. BUT the guy has IT. Not Tua, not Herbert, non of the rest of those guys have what I think it would take to turn this organization around.

 I think it's the reality it can be done multiple ways.   This draft class is deep with talent.   We are all dealing with unknowns and risk when laying out the plan for the draft.

I tend to deal with reality and there's no way in HELL on April 23rd I would be dissatisfied with any of the above draft hauls. 

 

 

[AMPHAR]

12 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Not sure what you are reading but I've read stuff that he was a top lineman last year before returning and has only elevated that stock.   Some have him as the best offensive linemen in this draft.    Some have mention Nelson from Indy type prospect.

 

By the way before this turns into some epic message board pissing match.    I have his name merely as a result of what they mocked to Miami with that pick.

Overall point being is based on that mock the draft haul is quite impressive IF you can get the Miami 3 picks.    It is also impressive staying put and drafting Burrow and taking the Louisville lineman.

 

[Stripes]

Burrow is the only one who'd put any butts in the seats. Not Burrow could very well remove MORE butts from the seats.

Winning would bring them back eventually, but can this franchise really afford to wait around for the planets to align? Even with three first round picks I have zero confidence in their ability to put together something capable.

I'm glad they seem to agree with the most obvious approach here.

[cincyhokie]

6 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

 I think it's the reality it can be done multiple ways.   This draft class is deep with talent.   We are all dealing with unknowns and risk when laying out the plan for the draft.

I tend to deal with reality and there's no way in HELL on April 23rd I would be dissatisfied with any of the above draft hauls. 

 

 

I disagree in that I don’t think it can be done in multiple ways here. I think a stud QB is the best way to hide a bunch of flaws. And also elevate everyone else around him. A better roster isn’t changing the culture here. We’ve already had that. A better coach? Some would say 2003 in Marvin Lewis. 
 

But we’ve never had a generational talent at QB. 

[membengal]

24 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Not sure what you are reading but I've read stuff that he was a top lineman last year before returning and has only elevated that stock.   Some have him as the best offensive linemen in this draft.    Some have mention Nelson from Indy type prospect.

 

The draft network guys are way down on him and lol to any Nelson comps.

[AMPHAR]

1 minute ago, cincyhokie said:

I disagree in that I don’t think it can be done in multiple ways here. I think a stud QB is the best way to hide a bunch of flaws. And also elevate everyone else around him. A better roster isn’t changing the culture here. We’ve already had that. A better coach? Some would say 2003 in Marvin Lewis. 
 

But we’ve never had a generational talent at QB. 

 It has been done here and quite recently

1. Coaching - Fact several Bengal assistants were brought in from outside the organization.  Promoted upward and even had multiple head coaches.

2. Front Office - Subjective - something change post 2010.  Fact: Tobin turned down GM interviews.  Subjective: Tobin was the lead on the lastest coaching hire.

3. Draft -  prior to Marvin Lewis he in fact had a solid foundation from previous drafts.  His 2004 and 2005 drafts were destroyed via injury and off the field incidents.  His 2006-2104 drafts were very solid.   Noting the drafts got historically good after.....2010.   That relates to point 2.

4. A star QB - Yes.  It's FACT Lamar Jackson and several other QBs can interject that type for franchise changing impact.

They took Andy Dalton and got 5 straight playoff years out of him.    Like you said they've never had a generational talent at QB,  so something has to give.

[AMPHAR]

10 minutes ago, membengal said:

The draft network guys are way down on him and lol to any Nelson comps.

Quote

One of my favorite players from last year, Tyler Biadasz was someone I had given a high first-round grade in last year’s NFL Draft. He chose to return to school and I don’t envision any scenario where he doesn’t retain that grade. Wisconsin is an offensive line factory, consistently producing quality NFL players. Biadasz has a ceiling similar to that of another Wisconsin alum: Dallas Cowboys center Travis Frederick. Frederick, when healthy, is the NFL’s best center.

Quote

Tyler Biadasz is my highest rated offensive lineman thus far. He’s someone I was a huge fan of last year and I believe he’s cut from the same mold as guys like Brandon Scherff and Zach Martin. He has a well-rounded game with minimal weaknesses or holes. A plug-and-play prospect, I won’t be surprised if Biadasz ends this year as my top rated Big Ten NFL Draft prospect. Until then, I’ll enjoy watching every pancake, flawless pass set, and defender thrown out of the way.

 

I don't know dude.  Take it up with these guys or read more.     I'd be real sad if I read that about any of my team's first round picks.

And don't be getting snotty on me because you'll latch on to anything positive i.e. your thoughts on Drew Sample last year.

Quote

I’ve seen comparisons to Todd Heap - he can catch and has a good feel for soft spots in zone. You may want to dream higher.

lol.   I deal with reality and the fact is you can go dig up awesome draft profiles for this guy quite easily and our line sucks.  So I would be perfectly fine in a draft that landed Tua, Wills, and Biadasz.    Sue me and DREAM HIGHER.

[membengal]

Sample sucked. Just saying, a Big 10 lineman with anchor issues in the interior seems sub-optimal to me. Take it up with Kyle Crabbs and those folks at TDN.  

[membengal]

AMPHAR, you are going on ignore for the duration of the draft season because you kinda suck.