Draft Grades and Reviews 2018

[GapControl]

Oops

[ArmyBengal]

If we are to believe Duke Tobin, they tried to make a deal to move from their pick in the 4th back into the bottom of the 3rd. That’s what I was hoping they would do. He said they were willing to give up an additional 5th but it fell apart. Interested to know who the target was.

[COB]

Second?  WTF?

[ArmyBengal]

Yes I wanted them to move into the second. I was more referring to trading back up since adding 11 picks to this team seems a bit much. Even Tobin refered to that point. 

I would have taken what was given at that point.

[Passepartout]

You made your point Army Bengals! Indeed!

[COB]

My mistake.  I understood your point Army.  My poorly crafted post was meant to express surprise at Gil Brandt’s ranking system tagging our draft as second best in the league.

[ArmyBengal]

Oh.....

Yeah, that ranking is a bit surprising to me as well. I can’t say I’ve spent any time looking at what other teams did, I would have a hard time envisioning what the Bengals did deserves that kind of praise.

Of course others may disagree. Or maybe every team in the league had C and D level drafts ??

[TJJackson]

Thing is, a point system like that fails to assess the meeting of needs as well as fit into system. Said another way, a pure zone corner might have a rating that is better than another corner who is pure man-press, but we'd be MUCH better off with the man-press guy even though his point rating in such a system would be lower. So the Brandt thing is a fun read but carries little real value

[AMPHAR]

Talent trumps need go review the Lawson and Willis draft threads from a year ago.

You’ll find a common theme.

 

[ArmyBengal]

I think the "talent vs. need" thought is certainly arguable.  No one was doubting that we had a great need at the Center position, but many would argue Price was not the best "talent" player available.
Of course it's how the Bengals evaluate that talent and understanding not everyone sees things in the same light.  Most did not have Price in their top 25 picks and some not in the first round at all.
That thought can be seen throughout the draft as well. 

I know it's the Browns, but Mayfield and Ward, leaving Chubb on the board ??  What about Barkley ??  That Browns RB depth chart sucks massive balls.  Ward was the epitome of a "need" pick.
I'm not being a pain, rather just offering up another thought which only (at least for me) makes it so hard to truly determine what any team may or may not do.

[TJJackson]

Army: there are still morons out there that preach BPA on every pick yet if the BPA at every pick was (for example) a linebacker, do you take 11 linebackers? The morons that preach BPA BPA BPA would say yep, take the linebackers, all 11 of them

If you dont have extreme needs like we do, yeah, sure, take the BPA. Particularly in the later rounds, ie 5 and after But early on, rounds 1-4, when you need plug-n-play starters like we do, BPA makes no damn sense, no matter how the BPA morons choose to spin it.

The only use at that point for the BPA concept is to decide between two players who are both at positions of extreme need. Ie a tiebreaker, AFTER need gets first consideration

[ArmyBengal]

Again, it's the Browns, but take a look at the Denzel Ward pick.

Many stated the Browns were crazy for adding Ward ahead of Chubb and from a talent evaluation thought process, they were.
Except they took Myles Garrett last year #1 overall and their coaches made the point as to why the pick was Ward this year.

They said their front 7 was barely missing the QB last year because the secondary couldn't hold coverage long enough.
So instead of adding Chubb, who was the better talent but left them with the same problem, they added Ward and probably did in fact improve their defense for doing so.

Again, I think there is a time for BPA and a time to address needs.  My point is that it's never a definitive on either side.
If the Bengals don't draft Price in the first, would that have pushed Daniels to their pick in the 2nd ??  Who knows ??
I will say though, if they weren't sold on Daniels, then no one can blame them for addressing that need in the first with a perceived lesser talent.

 

[TJJackson]

No one will be able to say the Browns made the right choice at 4 for a a few years yet, but their thinking for this particular pick is correct - the greater need was at corner, especially with Ogbah at the other DE spot

You'd have to be a moron to not recognize that the right decision was made here, or similarly thought-challenged to use the "logic" that on the basis of their failures in previous drafts (which were not presided over by their new GM Dorsey) that all picks in this draft must therefore be a failure as well.

[AMPHAR]

Again,  go revisit the Lawson and Willis draft threads.

The issue isn’t talent vs need.  

The issue is emotionally invested opinions leading individuals to come to incorrect opinions that they never reconcile afterward.   

If they are scoring high in Gil Brandt’s list or whatever they probably did pretty good.  

 

[AMPHAR]

3 hours ago, TJJackson said:

No one will be able to say the Browns made the right choice at 4 for a a few years yet, but their thinking is correct - the greater need was at corner, especially with Ogbah at the other DE spot

Browns 4-44.

Let me know when it’s ok to say they make wrong choices, lol.

[Stripes]

Brandt's methodology is pretty worthless.  Based on his arbitrary rankings, inverse points are awarded and summed.  Okay, I guess.

[ArmyBengal]

I had a response and just decided that I don't care enough.
If everyone needs the feel good, give the Bengals a bright shiny star and an "A++" for their draft effort.

From my own subjective view, it's still a "C".

[TJJackson]

Stripes: yeah, the Brandt list is poorly done in a number of ways. Anyone who uses the number of picks we took that happen to be on the Brandt list as an indicator of a teams success or failure at drafting knows little to nothing about football, and about drafting in particular

Army: I'll stick with my C for the first pick and a solid F for all picks after that

[GapControl]

 

these Darrius Phillips TDs are worth a look.

I think this solves any questions about who the favorite is to be special teams returner.

4.39 forty at his pro day

[COB]

The bengals Lee Marvin predator skyscraper Yemeni helmet.

[TJJackson]

COB: Someday, I hope to understand your last post. Someday :-)

[Wraith]

COB: Marvin Lewis falcon parsnip waffle-fries Canadian pigskin

[redsbengalsbucks]

COB: Marvin Gaye rocket battleship Russian fur

[TJJackson]

uhm.......you ever gotten to feeling like you are the only one in a group that isn't "in" on an inside joke?

Yeah, me neither

[ArmyBengal]

16 hours ago, TJJackson said:

uhm.......you ever gotten to feeling like you are the only one in a group that isn't "in" on an inside joke?

Well TJ, that’s because Marvin sphinx racoon asparagus blow-dryer.

I mean duh !!