ArmyBengal Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 19 minutes ago, AMPHAR said: Reminder: 2010 Bengals finished 4-12 and went through a mass exit of name worthy talent. TO, Chad, Carson etc. Starting with the 2011 draft class they have amassed 55 wins, 2 division titles. 3 wild card births, 0 playoff wins. They aren't players for Free Agents that they don't draft. These years had some top NFL defenses best in franchise history. Oh, I get that for sure AMPHAR and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just thinking more along the lines of how much everyone has been on the Bengals jock for drafting well initially. People always say you have to give it time to see how it pans out and I think we are able to do that going back a handful of years. We see productive players that have left even though their philosophy is draft your guys and keep them. While I understand and have said, "You can't keep them all", I think they've gotten away from their own mantra. This season was particularly devastating. Letting Andre Smith, Sanu and Jones, along with Reggie Nelson all walk has been brutal. In return we have Ogboogie with Winston, LaFell and Boyd, and Shawn Williams. Not good. At least we got Karlos Dansby only 4 years beyond his prime to fill in... I am with you on the thought of "Just Draft Talent" for the upcoming draft. I just wish it was another coach having the input on who the team drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said: Oh, I get that for sure AMPHAR and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just thinking more along the lines of how much everyone has been on the Bengals jock for drafting well initially. People always say you have to give it time to see how it pans out and I think we are able to do that going back a handful of years. We see productive players that have left even though their philosophy is draft your guys and keep them. While I understand and have said, "You can't keep them all", I think they've gotten away from their own mantra. This season was particularly devastating. Letting Andre Smith, Sanu and Jones, along with Reggie Nelson all walk has been brutal. In return we have Ogboogie with Winston, LaFell and Boyd, and Shawn Williams. Not good. At least we got Karlos Dansby only 4 years beyond his prime to fill in... I am with you on the thought of "Just Draft Talent" for the upcoming draft. I just wish it was another coach having the input on who the team drafts. I get your point now. Going forward is important and maybe something should be tweaked. Maybe what Paulie G was saying was lip service after the draft that still had good LB talent on the board. They saw 6 LBs taken after the selection of WJ3 and before the selection of Boyd. I'm not that upset about this season. I didn't think the window would shut this year but it did. I'm more upset that they didn't cash the ticket in the playoffs with the opportunity was prime. Now it's a question of how long it will remain shut or can they open it up next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 Next year is still open for discussion, but there are a lot of unknowns and they ALL need to be answered. Who are the starting tackles for this team ?? Does Whit come back ?? Are either Ogboogie or Fisher good enough ?? Will Zeitler come back ?? What about Center and LG ?? What about our LB's ?? We keep asking will Burfict figure it out and everything else is replaceable with a maybe for Vigil. The D-line needs a revamp. Love Peko, but he should have been gone. MJ ?? Done. Can Billings come back to fill a void ?? The secondary needs to know what they have in WJ3. Will Kirkpatrick stick around ?? Does anyone feel great about Dennard ?? Williams sucks. WR's not named AJ are a massive question. Boyd could be good in the slot, but I don't think he's an outside threat. Questions after that. LaFell isn't good. RB's now take a hit with Bernard more than likely starting 2017 on the PUP. Hill is here for another year and unspectacular. What else ?? I see a team that is either too old, too young, or just not that good on top of being coached horrendously in all facets of the game. So, in relation to the thread title: Draft the best LB, DE, CB, WR, OT, OG, C, and Safety possible (in no particular order). Some need to be addressed twice. Depending on who you want to believe, the thought is we get the full load of 4 comp picks. THAT is a ton of maneuverability at their disposal seeing as how they can now be traded. They have to hit more than miss if they want 2017 to be a complete turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 2 hours ago, AMPHAR said: They aren't players for Free Agents that they don't draft. While that statement is true, there are exceptions to the rule. Good and bad exceptions. Bad - Michael Westbrook. Also, Laveranues Coles. Good - various almost washed up people they get one more desperate year from, also Reggie Nelson, though he was had first in a small trade then we signed him as free agent. Their proclivity to refuse the big free agent signing, which has actually been working until this year, isn't a product of inherent Lumina driving cheapness, it's their history with those signings. There were big time guys who never even saw the field for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted November 22, 2016 Report Share Posted November 22, 2016 The Center from Kentucky should be on their list. He's been holding his own against SEC front 7s and I think he will be at the Senior bowl. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 23, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 10 hours ago, AMPHAR said: Reminder: 2010 Bengals finished 4-12 and went through a mass exit of name worthy talent. TO, Chad, Carson etc. Starting with the 2011 draft class they have amassed 55 wins, 2 division titles. 3 wild card births, 0 playoff wins. They aren't players for Free Agents that they don't draft. These years had some top NFL defenses best in franchise history. Ok, two important points. One, most of the players on those defenses you refer to in your last sentence were on the roster in 2010. Two, the difference between 2010 and 2015 in terms of exiting talent was that the talent that excited in 2010 was the reason they sucked, especially Palmer, master of the late game losing pick six that year. Not the case with the talent lost last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingwilly Posted November 23, 2016 Report Share Posted November 23, 2016 8 hours ago, COB said: While that statement is true, there are exceptions to the rule. Good and bad exceptions. Bad - Michael Westbrook. Also, Laveranues Coles. Good - various almost washed up people they get one more desperate year from, also Reggie Nelson, though he was had first in a small trade then we signed him as free agent. Their proclivity to refuse the big free agent signing, which has actually been working until this year, isn't a product of inherent Lumina driving cheapness, it's their history with those signings. There were big time guys who never even saw the field for us. For every Antonio Bryant there is a Tory James. A Reggie Nelson, Deltha O'Neal, Antwon Odom, Bobbie Williams for every Brian Lawrence, Roy Williams or Dexter Jackson or Kim Herring or Sam Adams. When they try, there are misses more than hits but that's the game of FA. So, they usually don't play it. They do not go after big names, though when the media mentions Cincy, it's usually as a negotiating tactic. Shaun Rogers and Warren Sapp come to mind. They let guys like Justin Smith, Andre Smith and Takeo Spikes, Collins walk, but keep and pay a Jeremi Johnson, Stacey Andrews, or Hewitt or Geathers and Hall to big dollars. Some made sense many didn't. My hope is they let guys like Dre walk rather than the them up in big long deals, especially when we have a surplus of r1 corners. I'd like to see FA effort unto WR, LB and DE. Veterans at these spots can more immediately deliver production than a rookie. Remember, the window is closing. And quickly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Looks like no movement this week. Bengals stay in the six hole. All five teams ahead of then lost, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 53 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: Looks like no movement this week. Bengals stay in the six hole. All five teams ahead of then lost, too. Our team can't even tank effectively? All we do is lose and still can't make any progress on getting a better draft slot. Eff this stupid organization! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Lol of course, I blame Mike Brown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincyhokie Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 58 minutes ago, COB said: Our team can't even tank effectively? All we do is lose and still can't make any progress on getting a better draft slot. Eff this stupid organization! GD it! Got to think they're safe for a top 8 pick. Can't imagine more than 2 wins in the last 5. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 Get as high as we can and take the best player at franchise spot aside from QB. Pass rusher, Pass defender, Pass Protector, or Pass catcher. Haven't gotten around to thinking about an elite RB but Zeke has certainly helped that thinking that RBs aren't as dime a dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UK Bengal Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 any chance we get near that OSU LB who totally owned the wolverines running game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 If we are talking about who we want in the first, the player I'll go ahead and pimp is Myles Garrett, DE, Texas A&M. We might not get up enough to grab him, but I can hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 59 minutes ago, AMPHAR said: Get as high as we can and take the best player at franchise spot aside from QB. Pass rusher, Pass defender, Pass Protector, or Pass catcher. Haven't gotten around to thinking about an elite RB but Zeke has certainly helped that thinking that RBs aren't as dime a dozen. Actually there's a case to be made for QB. First, a team (hopefully) doesn't get up in the top 5-10 picks very often, so if you are there and have a chance to take a franchise guy, you do it. Second, Andy's dead money hit peaks this season. If he were cut this year he would have cost $17 million in dead money. That falls to $4.8 million in 2017, versus a $15.7 million cap hit if he stays, and $2.4 million/$16.3 million in 2018. After that there is no dead money in 2019 or 2020. Now obviously we would not cut him but this means he has huge trade value thanks to a super-team-friendly deal. The sticking point this time around is that the QB class looks pretty pedestrian. So I don't think this happens, at least not this year. But it's an option now going forward for the rest of Dalton's contract if the Bengals find themselves high in the draft again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted November 28, 2016 Report Share Posted November 28, 2016 53 minutes ago, UK Bengal said: any chance we get near that OSU LB who totally owned the wolverines running game? I'm guessing LB will be a spot they want to improve. Not sure how high they'll invest draft picks. Dansby is probably gone via UFA. Do they cut Rey Maualuga with 1 year left but 0 dead money? Vigil, Vinny Rey, and Burfict are all back. PJ Dawson - not sure. Probably could see them add 2 new LBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted November 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2016 So looking at the teams ahead of the Bengals: 1. Browns (0-12). Remaining games: Bengals, @ Bills, Chargers, @ Steelers. I think their best case scenario is 2-14, with wins over Cincy in 2 weeks and beating a Steeler team resting starters for the playoffs. My prediction is 1-15, with the lone win coming against the Bengals. 2. 49ers (1-10). Remaining games: @ Bears, Jets, @ Falcons, @ Rams, Seahawks. Best case scenario would be wins over everyone but Atlanta. Bears, Jets and Rams stink and Hawks could be resting starters. My prediction is 3-13 with wins over Bears and Hawks' third stringers. 3. Jaguars (2-9). Remaining games: Denver, Minnesota, @ Houston, Tennessee, @ Indy. I'll give them one win over the Vikes for a 3-13 finish. 4. Da Bears (2-9). Remaining games: 49ers, @ Lions, Packers, Redskins, @ Vikings. Chicago is a garbage fire but I'll say they beat SF and Minny to go 4-12. 5. Jets (3-8). Remaining games: Colts, @ 49ers, Dolphins, @ Patriots, Bills. NY already beat Buffalo on the road and lost a close one in Miami. I would say all but the Pats game are winnable. I'll guess they win 3 for a 6-10 finish. 6. Bengals (3-7-1). Remaining games: Eagles, @ Browns, Steelers, @ Texans, Ravens. I would say best case scenario is 2 wins, Browns and Ravens. But after Sunday it's hard to see so much as that and they could easily lose out. But even best case puts then at 5-10-1. As long as the three four win teams, AZ, Titans and Panthers don't lose out and crash the party, I think the Bengals move up to 5. If they lose out there's a chance at 4. They need too much help from bad teams to go any higher IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 Well, the Bengals went and won today. As a result they drop from 6 to 8. If Arizona loses to DC they tie Cincy so it would be a coin flip for the 8 and 9 picks. A win next week could push them from the top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted December 4, 2016 Report Share Posted December 4, 2016 3 minutes ago, HoosierCat said: Well, the Bengals went and won today. As a result they drop from 6 to 8. If Arizona loses to DC they tie Cincy so it would be a coin flip for the 8 and 9 picks. A win next week could push them from the top 10. The Cardinals are looking good today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COB Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 6 hours ago, HoosierCat said: Well, the Bengals went and won today. As a result they drop from 6 to 8. If Arizona loses to DC they tie Cincy so it would be a coin flip for the 8 and 9 picks. A win next week could push them from the top 10. Great. Just Great,. So we want to win a few games so our crap coaches can keep their jobs another year, and we get shoved out of complete stud draft territory, and end up in draft purgatory where we'll find someone who has fallen due to character or injury concerns. Gasmask Bongface, come on down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 I have so much to say, but will simply concur with COB and leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 9 hours ago, COB said: Great. Just Great,. So we want to win a few games so our crap coaches can keep their jobs another year, and we get shoved out of complete stud draft territory, and end up in draft purgatory where we'll find someone who has fallen due to character or injury concerns. Gasmask Bongface, come on down! Yup. A full blown disaster. It's so Marvin and the Bengals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 11 hours ago, COB said: Great. Just Great,. So we want to win a few games so our crap coaches can keep their jobs another year, and we get shoved out of complete stud draft territory, and end up in draft purgatory where we'll find someone who has fallen due to character or injury concerns. Gasmask Bongface, come on down! On the hopeful side, its worth noting that Gasmask Bongface has been a better OT in Miami than either of the two clowns Cincy took in 2015. So you never know. But yeah, chances are all they are doing is screwing themselves over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPHAR Posted December 5, 2016 Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 Just enjoy the wins. A slightly better win/loss record wasn't going to force Katie to fire a main piece of her front office or overturn the front office. As a fan, I'd rather beat the Browns, Steelers, Texans, and Ravens for various reasons than hope or downgrade wins just to believe in a chain of events that are unlikely to happen. I still could make a case for every position in the draft except QB. Maybe after Eagles game WR group looks competitive already so maybe you don't add a body unless it's a potential franchise talent. Still think top focus has to be o-line and d-line early and adding late talent to the LB core. But could take any position on the basis of talent except QB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted December 5, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2016 At a bare minimum I expect a QB in the middle rounds. McCarron is a UFA after next season so they need to start grooming a new backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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