Broncos @ Bengals Game Thread

[Stripes]

Yeah I am not sorry for being angry about immediate pick sixes or playing for field goals against Peyton Manning.

The defense, offensive line, and both running backs came up big. Dalton did okay in recovering from the huge screw up too.

Peyton threw a pick six and 2 other picks with the game on the line.

He threw a pick across his body against Baltimore in the playoffs of 2012 that gave them the game which led to a SB championship and he's a 17 year veteran!

Funny thing was about last night, as much as I like Gruden as an announcer there were a few passes Dalton threw that Gruden said that they were terrible decisions on Dalton's part, and they were, however I never heard that same statement from him about Manning's 4 picks!

As a matter of fact, on the pick 6 he was almost making excuses for him.

I'm not excusing Dalton's mistakes, they ate what they are, but it just seems like after a QB wins a SB, they get a pass from the media regardless of how bad they play, ala a E. Manning and Flacco.

Peyton's poor game was an exception to his rule, not any sort of norm. It's a meaningless comparison.

Dalton, as a quarterback in prime time or playoff games, has struggled for his entire career for whatever reason. Hell it could just be bad luck, I am willing to consider that. But the problem exists; it is absolutely pointless to deny that. Prior to the January playoff game against San Diego, I was one of Dalton's most vocal supporters around here. One has to at least try to be objective though, and I can't do that without seeing a lot of reasons to complain about Andy Dalton.

It's very easy to say: "we won the game, STOP COMPLAINING!", but I don't think that's logical. Those who would complain are worried about future games (particularly those of a playoff variety) within which the Bengals are likely to lose if Dalton plays poorly.

It's also very easy to say: "complaining about Dalton won't change anything, he's still the quarterback!". Well, no freaking kidding. This is a message board, nothing we say about anything has any real effect on what happens on the field. Neither positivity or negativity are of interest to me, I only call it like I see it. In 2013 I thought Dalton was really on his way to becoming something special. Now we're sitting here at the end of 2014 and he has had a genuinely BAD season, and that is very disappointing. The team has won despite that thankfully, but we can't just blindly anticipate that will continue perpetually. We've all seen the last three playoff games; those did actually happen.

I don't "hate" Dalton. I want him to play better because I think he is talented enough to play better. He's at least as talented as Joe Flacco, and Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl. This means that we need to get into the playoffs and have Dalton get hot -- something that absolutely cannot ever happen if he constantly fails in prime time/playoff games. Once he gets over that in a permanent way I'll be more optimistic about him. Last night was a good start towards that objective, after he recovered from the terrible interception.

I don't mean to criticize you BG71. I understand where you're coming from here, and there have been times in my 16,000 posts when I've said many of the same things you have said recently. Shula has a right to his honest perspective though, and that he is a fan of the Bengals who wants them to win games should not be questioned.

[cincyhokie]

The British guys still have not shown up with the beer

I knew I should have counted on the Scots instead. I knew it ! :-)

Hoots mon - i still have a blood alcohol level of about 40% .....in the shit with the mrs all day cos my screaming and cheering kept waking her up through the night/game. Oh, and the fact that her eldest boy (a Saints fan) stayed up and watched the game with me ..... and got very drunk also

walking on air today .... far too much alcohol and lack of sleep but you know what? This has been a great Tuesday

Feeling the same way today! Already making huge plans for the Steelers game.

[Stripes]

Complaints on this board are not limited to game day threads, by the way. I remember Hoosier specifically involved in numerous loud bouts of complaining about the Bengals' free agency practices in the front office, as HairOnFire loudly argued opposing perspectives. I don't understand why people have gotten so frustrated by something that happens on every NFL message board on the Internet. The grass is definitely not greener anywhere else.

[volcom69]

Complaints on this board are not limited to game day threads, by the way. I remember Hoosier specifically involved in numerous loud bouts of complaining about the Bengals' free agency practices in the front office, as HairOnFire loudly argued opposing perspectives. I don't understand why people have gotten so frustrated by something that happens on every NFL message board on the Internet. The grass is definitely not greener anywhere else.

Yea completely agree, every team has a message board, every team has a game day thread, and people are there being negative on there boards. We have been here awhile now, and Hoosier has defiantly had negative posts as well in those threads, just like the rest of us. Not really sure why it matters though, just because we something negative about a play or player does not mean we don't want them to succed. After all we are here the next cheering for them again. It's just who we are as fans, and it's like this every where, sometimes worse.

[ArmyBengal]

I think it's more the posters that have an axe to grind. Simple points aren't made, but rather the same rant over and over.

Again, I don't see it as an issue any other time than in the gameday threads and I simply avoid them. Problem solved.

However, when you spend as much time as Hoosier has here trying to keep things moving and you have to deal with that, it does in fact become irritating.

I heard someone compare it to you having a bar that you love to go to. You go there all the time to grab one on your way home or to hang out on the weekends. Then all of a sudden this other guy shows up and just runs his mouth loudly about a bunch of nonsense. He seemingly shows up about the same time as you do every day you are there and he irritates the hell out of you. Sooner or later you are going to find another bar to hang out in. It doesn't mean the new bar will be better, but you will take your chances just to get away from it.

[ArmyBengal]

Also, i'm not speaking for Hoosier here. I simply brought him up as an example.

I have walked away for a while when getting frustrated with the board, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

When you spend so much time doing this, the silliness can certainly get to you.

I just take a break and then find my way back after some time away.

[TJJackson]

well, if you have a way to contact Hoosier outside of here, please let him know that we miss him, especially after one of the greatest regular-season victories in Bengal history

[jonf45uk]

Have only just managed to watch the game as am on 4 am starts. I hate having to avoid seeing the score all day, but so glad I did! Fantastic game, so glad we finally managed to beat manning, thought the defence showed a lot of character and commitment, and bar the 3rd quarter, a really well executed game plan. Think special teams deserve a mention too as we really had some great field position thanks to Jones and tate. Glad for Andy to finally get one over on Peyton, even if he did do his best to get the receivers killed! Hope green is good to go next week, but will be happy just seeing hill and Bernard all age long!!! Enjoy the Christmas week, bask in another playoff season, WHO DEY

[cincyhokie]

Have only just managed to watch the game as am on 4 am starts. I hate having to avoid seeing the score all day, but so glad I did! Fantastic game, so glad we finally managed to beat manning, thought the defence showed a lot of character and commitment, and bar the 3rd quarter, a really well executed game plan. Think special teams deserve a mention too as we really had some great field position thanks to Jones and tate. Glad for Andy to finally get one over on Peyton, even if he did do his best to get the receivers killed! Hope green is good to go next week, but will be happy just seeing hill and Bernard all age long!!! Enjoy the Christmas week, bask in another playoff season, WHO DEY :)/>

You too! Who Dey!!!

[gregcook68]

I think it's more the posters that have an axe to grind. Simple points aren't made, but rather the same rant over and over.

Again, I don't see it as an issue any other time than in the gameday threads and I simply avoid them. Problem solved.

However, when you spend as much time as Hoosier has here trying to keep things moving and you have to deal with that, it does in fact become irritating.

I heard someone compare it to you having a bar that you love to go to. You go there all the time to grab one on your way home or to hang out on the weekends. Then all of a sudden this other guy shows up and just runs his mouth loudly about a bunch of nonsense. He seemingly shows up about the same time as you do every day you are there and he irritates the hell out of you.

Bingo! It's the ongoing relentless complaints that never end regardless of how the team does.

Stripes you have a right to complain just as much as I have a right to complain ABOUT the complaining!

You're solution to my point is, if I don't like it, then go somewhere else!

That's the same logic for me to say, if someone constantly complains, if you don't like it, then go to another team.

[gregcook68]

Yeah I am not sorry for being angry about immediate pick sixes or playing for field goals against Peyton Manning.

The defense, offensive line, and both running backs came up big. Dalton did okay in recovering from the huge screw up too.

Peyton threw a pick six and 2 other picks with the game on the line.

He threw a pick across his body against Baltimore in the playoffs of 2012 that gave them the game which led to a SB championship and he's a 17 year veteran!

Funny thing was about last night, as much as I like Gruden as an announcer there were a few passes Dalton threw that Gruden said that they were terrible decisions on Dalton's part, and they were, however I never heard that same statement from him about Manning's 4 picks!

As a matter of fact, on the pick 6 he was almost making excuses for him.

I'm not excusing Dalton's mistakes, they ate what they are, but it just seems like after a QB wins a SB, they get a pass from the media regardless of how bad they play, ala a E. Manning and Flacco.

Peyton's poor game was an exception to his rule, not any sort of norm. It's a meaningless comparison.

Dalton, as a quarterback in prime time or playoff games, has struggled for his entire career for whatever reason. Hell it could just be bad luck, I am willing to consider that. But the problem exists; it is absolutely pointless to deny that. Prior to the January playoff game against San Diego, I was one of Dalton's most vocal supporters around here. One has to at least try to be objective though, and I can't do that without seeing a lot of reasons to complain about Andy Dalton.

It's very easy to say: "we won the game, STOP COMPLAINING!", but I don't think that's logical. Those who would complain are worried about future games (particularly those of a playoff variety) within which the Bengals are likely to lose if Dalton plays poorly.

It's also very easy to say: "complaining about Dalton won't change anything, he's still the quarterback!". Well, no freaking kidding. This is a message board, nothing we say about anything has any real effect on what happens on the field. Neither positivity or negativity are of interest to me, I only call it like I see it. In 2013 I thought Dalton was really on his way to becoming something special. Now we're sitting here at the end of 2014 and he has had a genuinely BAD season, and that is very disappointing. The team has won despite that thankfully, but we can't just blindly anticipate that will continue perpetually. We've all seen the last three playoff games; those did actually happen.

I don't "hate" Dalton. I want him to play better because I think he is talented enough to play better. He's at least as talented as Joe Flacco, and Joe Flacco won a Super Bowl. This means that we need to get into the playoffs and have Dalton get hot -- something that absolutely cannot ever happen if he constantly fails in prime time/playoff games. Once he gets over that in a permanent way I'll be more optimistic about him. Last night was a good start towards that objective, after he recovered from the terrible interception.

I don't mean to criticize you BG71. I understand where you're coming from here, and there have been times in my 16,000 posts when I've said many of the same things you have said recently. Shula has a right to his honest perspective though, and that he is a fan of the Bengals who wants them to win games should not be questioned.

You meant to criticize and that's okay. This primetime thing is a franchise problem, not a Dalton problem!

Now see I'm not complaining, but I am continually pointing this out. Its a fact. Numbers don't lie.

I agree if 'this team' including, but not exclusive to Dalton, doesn't win in Thugsburgh next week, making a strong statement, by winning 2 big stage games in a row, one home and one away, they will NOT win their playoff game. I stand by this, but will eat tons of WHODEY CROW if I'm wrong.

PS I have as much right to criticize Shula as he does to bash Dalton. It's a 2 way street or at least it's supposed to be.

[Stripes]

You're solution to my point is, if I don't like it, then go somewhere else!

No I didn't say that. I hope you stick around, the 'Zone needs contributing posters.

I was just explaining that people who complain can still be passionate, good fans of this franchise.

[gregcook68]

You're solution to my point is, if I don't like it, then go somewhere else!

No I didn't say that. I hope you stick around, the 'Zone needs contributing posters.

I was just explaining that people who complain can still be passionate, good fans of this franchise.

I'll follow here and this team until I'm too senile to know any different!

As far as worrying about the future of the franchise Stripes, I'm 61 years old, and I'm not the brightest bulb in the box, as my wife points that out to me every chance she gets, but one thing I did learn a long time ago, and once I saw the logic in it, it was actually pretty easy to adhere to:

"It's senseless to worry about anything you have absolutely no control over!"

That's part of the reason I am like I am in here.

Now if I were a coach in the franchise, in ANY capacity, I would have more of a reason to worry, because I would have a 'hand' in part of the control.

BTW, I think this new Vance Jospeph guy, I believe he is the CB coach was a great addition to the staff. (Sidebar)

[ArmyBengal]

Vance Joseph was widely considered one of the best coaching hires by a team last offseason and his work with the secondary is pretty evident.

[Earendil]

You're solution to my point is, if I don't like it, then go somewhere else!

No I didn't say that. I hope you stick around, the 'Zone needs contributing posters.

I was just explaining that people who complain can still be passionate, good fans of this franchise.

I completely agree, but at some point they become a broken record.

I don't think Dalton is the answer either, but I can also talk about other things without bringing him into every conversation.

[volcom69]

Vance Joseph is a great coach, I think he mainly coaches the safeties. He did good work in Houston while he was there, I like that the bengals brought him in

[ArmyBengal]

Joseph is the secondary coach and coaches both the CB's and safeties.

He is one of the better secondary coaches in the league and many coaches were praising Marvin for being able to get him in the fold.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing another mid round (4th or 5th) CB in the draft to be able to work into the mix while he's still here.

[volcom69]

Joseph is the secondary coach and coaches both the CB's and safeties.

He is one of the better secondary coaches in the league and many coaches were praising Marvin for being able to get him in the fold.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing another mid round (4th or 5th) CB in the draft to be able to work into the mix while he's still here.

I thought Mark Carrier was the secondary coach and Vance Joseph coached under/with him.

[ArmyBengal]

Joseph is the secondary coach and coaches both the CB's and safeties.

He is one of the better secondary coaches in the league and many coaches were praising Marvin for being able to get him in the fold.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing another mid round (4th or 5th) CB in the draft to be able to work into the mix while he's still here.

I thought Mark Carrier was the secondary coach and Vance Joseph coached under/with him.

I went to the official site and it says that both Carrier and Joseph "team" to coach the defensive backs, so you are correct in the "with him".

I had forgotten about Carrier some how. Thanks, good catch !!

[ArmyBengal]

Dre named AFC defensive player of the week for the Broncos game !!!

/>http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/24/dre-kirkpatrick-is-the-afc-offensive-player-of-the-week/#comments

[cincyhokie]

I try and call it as I see it. Am I always right? Far from it. I don't mind being called out and I don't mind shifting a stance. In fact, this year has taught me a lot about what is perception and what can be reality.

Share what you got, listen to others, and don't take yourself so seriously. When it comes down to it, none of this means much. It's what you make it.

[gregcook68]

Joseph is the secondary coach and coaches both the CB's and safeties.

He is one of the better secondary coaches in the league and many coaches were praising Marvin for being able to get him in the fold.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing another mid round (4th or 5th) CB in the draft to be able to work into the mix while he's still here.

I thought Mark Carrier was the secondary coach and Vance Joseph coached under/with him.

I went to the official site and it says that both Carrier and Joseph "team" to coach the defensive backs, so you are correct in the "with him".

I had forgotten about Carrier some how. Thanks, good catch !!

I thought I read somewhere on the website that Carrier coaches the safeties and Joseph the corners. Not positive about that though.

[volcom69]

Joseph is the secondary coach and coaches both the CB's and safeties.

He is one of the better secondary coaches in the league and many coaches were praising Marvin for being able to get him in the fold.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing another mid round (4th or 5th) CB in the draft to be able to work into the mix while he's still here.

I thought Mark Carrier was the secondary coach and Vance Joseph coached under/with him.

I went to the official site and it says that both Carrier and Joseph "team" to coach the defensive backs, so you are correct in the "with him".

I had forgotten about Carrier some how. Thanks, good catch !!

I thought I read somewhere on the website that Carrier coaches the safeties and Joseph the corners. Not positive about that though.

You might be right on that I might have mixed them up, but either way they both have there hands on teaching the secondary lol.

[semiotter]

Vance Joseph was widely considered one of the best coaching hires by a team last offseason and his work with the secondary is pretty evident.10-4