State of the Bengals

[HoosierCat]

When do the "what about Josh Freeman" topics start?

I would not be against this idea. Gotta take a look at any player who could help this team improve. At minimum, he'd be an upgrade over Josh Johnson.

After tonight I have to think that Freeman will be cut loose shortly. The whole drug program leak is blowing up and Freeman just basically accused the team of trying to screw him.

Given Locker's injury Tennessee seems a fit.

[volcom69]

Another thing Marvin is the head coach, explain to me why during the game he didn't go over to Gruden and say, "hey I think we need to run it more"? No he allows Gruden to throw it all over the place second half, and give Dalton no help? Somebody explain this to me

Considering in his press conference today Marvin says, "we need to run the ball more" what a joke!

No doubt. According to Marv, they got "spooked" out of the run game. What, did the effing ghost of Art Modell appear on the sidelines and threaten to move the team to London if they ran the ball?

It's like they are afraid to run it on second down for some reason. I don't know Marvin said they are getting back to running the ball this week, so guess will see.

[COB]

When do the "what about Josh Freeman" topics start?

I would not be against this idea. Gotta take a look at any player who could help this team improve. At minimum, he'd be an upgrade over Josh Johnson.

After tonight I have to think that Freeman will be cut loose shortly. The whole drug program leak is blowing up and Freeman just basically accused the team of trying to screw him.

Given Locker's injury Tennessee seems a fit.

I hear Skelton is working out for Tennessee. They'll probably sign him, thus destroying our chances to get an accurate thrower in here who somewhat knows the offense. Why the f**k doesn't Katie Blackburn read my Bengalszone posts? If she did she would know there is a massive groundswell of support (mainly inside my cranium) for Skelton. Then we'd at least have an arm in here. Name an NFL franchise with less arm firepower on its roster. You can't.

[ArmyBengal]

Here's something that was burned into my memory.

Anyone recall Andrew Luck throwing two TD passes to AJ in the pro bowl last year ??

I watched that and thought to myself, so that's what it's supposed to look like.

I know there aren't Andrew Luck's coming out of each draft, but you get my point.

[HoosierCat]

It's like they are afraid to run it on second down for some reason. I don't know Marvin said they are getting back to running the ball this week, so guess will see.

Marvin muttered some stuff about not wanting to be predictable as the reason for not running on certain downs. Yet another comment which raised my ire because it goes back to an old discussion/argument I've had with sky: they need to impose their will on offense, not fret over what the other team might do or guess they are doing. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this year's team has the tools to do that. Someone, Princeton I think, has argued that they've gone back to being a finesse team and reluctantly I have come to agree. Somehow they've even managed to neuter James Harrison.

[skyline]

It's like they are afraid to run it on second down for some reason. I don't know Marvin said they are getting back to running the ball this week, so guess will see.

Marvin muttered some stuff about not wanting to be predictable as the reason for not running on certain downs. Yet another comment which raised my ire because it goes back to an old discussion/argument I've had with sky: they need to impose their will on offense, not fret over what the other team might do or guess they are doing. Unfortunately, I'm not sure this year's team has the tools to do that. Someone, Princeton I think, has argued that they've gone back to being a finesse team and reluctantly I have come to agree. Somehow they've even managed to neuter James Harrison.

There are worse things than being a finesse team (on offense, that is). The question I have is whether or not we have the offensive coordinator to properly design it.

That said, our offense has looked good against Chicago and Green Bay (2nd half, at least). I have a feeling they put up big points against New England this week. But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

[HoosierCat]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

[volcom69]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

Yep agree with this 100% and I think this is more of a problem then Dalton. When things don't go right Gruden panics and throws his game plans out. He needs to learn to hit right back be more physical. Problem is I don't know if he knows how to call games like that.

[HoosierCat]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

Yep agree with this 100% and I think this is more of a problem then Dalton. When things don't go right Gruden panics and throws his game plans out. He needs to learn to hit right back be more physical. Problem is I don't know if he knows how to call games like that.

Well, it all kind of makes sense if you accept Goodberry's theory on how the offense works. If indeed the play call depends on the pre snap read, and post snap the only look is to make sure the pre snap read was right, then the offense looking panicked or random or whatever could be due to keying so much on what the defense is showing. It might also explain why so much of the time it seems like defenses know what's coming.

I do agree they need to hit back. Just not seeing a lot of pounder types on the O. Maybe Gresham, who has played with more fire this year, if he can keep from fumbling while he's doing it.

[combatbengal]

Before I say this, let me state that I am not bashing our QB. But, how is it that 6 foot tall Drew Brees, stands on his tip toes to look over his linemen and throws in that same manner to his teammates and manages to get the ball to them. Yet our QB throws to 6'5 Gresham and he has to jump and extend his arms to catch the ball? Or it's thrown to far over their heads? Would rolling out help more?

[HoosierCat]

Before I say this, let me state that I am not bashing our QB. But, how is it that 6 foot tall Drew Brees, stands on his tip toes to look over his linemen and throws in that same manner to his teammates and manages to get the ball to them. Yet our QB throws to 6'5 Gresham and he has to jump and extend his arms to catch the ball? Or it's thrown to far over their heads? Would rolling out help more?

Could be that's how he's being coached to throw. Put it where only the receiver can make a play on it, avoid potential picks. Or maybe he's just overcompensating for batted balls in the past.

They certainly don't seem to be rolling Andy out much this year, they did that a bit in years past.

[volcom69]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

Yep agree with this 100% and I think this is more of a problem then Dalton. When things don't go right Gruden panics and throws his game plans out. He needs to learn to hit right back be more physical. Problem is I don't know if he knows how to call games like that.

Well, it all kind of makes sense if you accept Goodberry's theory on how the offense works. If indeed the play call depends on the pre snap read, and post snap the only look is to make sure the pre snap read was right, then the offense looking panicked or random or whatever could be due to keying so much on what the defense is showing. It might also explain why so much of the time it seems like defenses know what's coming.

I do agree they need to hit back. Just not seeing a lot of pounder types on the O. Maybe Gresham, who has played with more fire this year, if he can keep from fumbling while he's doing it.

So are we saying that Gruden determines what play is called, and Andy can't change it? Do they trust him to change the play with the defense he sees? I would love them to take the leash off of him and just let him run the offense, he is supposed to be a pretty smart guy.

[skyline]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

Yep agree with this 100% and I think this is more of a problem then Dalton. When things don't go right Gruden panics and throws his game plans out. He needs to learn to hit right back be more physical. Problem is I don't know if he knows how to call games like that.

Well, it all kind of makes sense if you accept Goodberry's theory on how the offense works. If indeed the play call depends on the pre snap read, and post snap the only look is to make sure the pre snap read was right, then the offense looking panicked or random or whatever could be due to keying so much on what the defense is showing. It might also explain why so much of the time it seems like defenses know what's coming.

I do agree they need to hit back. Just not seeing a lot of pounder types on the O. Maybe Gresham, who has played with more fire this year, if he can keep from fumbling while he's doing it.

So are we saying that Gruden determines what play is called, and Andy can't change it? Do they trust him to change the play with the defense he sees? I would love them to take the leash off of him and just let him run the offense, he is supposed to be a pretty smart guy.

I don't know the full answer to this. From picking things up in interviews, etc., it sounds like Andy has the ability to check down to a run and that sort of thing, but I think he's pretty tied down to whatever Jay wants to do.

[kingwilly]

When do the "what about Josh Freeman" topics start?

I would not be against this idea. Gotta take a look at any player who could help this team improve. At minimum, he'd be an upgrade over Josh Johnson.

After tonight I have to think that Freeman will be cut loose shortly. The whole drug program leak is blowing up and Freeman just basically accused the team of trying to screw him.

Given Locker's injury Tennessee seems a fit.

I hear Skelton is working out for Tennessee. They'll probably sign him, thus destroying our chances to get an accurate thrower in here who somewhat knows the offense. Why the f**k doesn't Katie Blackburn read my Bengalszone posts? If she did she would know there is a massive groundswell of support (mainly inside my cranium) for Skelton. Then we'd at least have an arm in here. Name an NFL franchise with less arm firepower on its roster. You can't.

Jacksonville. Oakland. Cleveland. Houston.

There's 4.

If they go get an arm, it'd need to be someone with some real upside.

Freeman is a very good QB, stuck n a horrible team with crazy bulls**t happening everyday. f**k, if Freeman isn't an option, how about Vince Young? Seriously.

[kingwilly]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

Yep agree with this 100% and I think this is more of a problem then Dalton. When things don't go right Gruden panics and throws his game plans out. He needs to learn to hit right back be more physical. Problem is I don't know if he knows how to call games like that.

Well, it all kind of makes sense if you accept Goodberry's theory on how the offense works. If indeed the play call depends on the pre snap read, and post snap the only look is to make sure the pre snap read was right, then the offense looking panicked or random or whatever could be due to keying so much on what the defense is showing. It might also explain why so much of the time it seems like defenses know what's coming.

I do agree they need to hit back. Just not seeing a lot of pounder types on the O. Maybe Gresham, who has played with more fire this year, if he can keep from fumbling while he's doing it.

So are we saying that Gruden determines what play is called, and Andy can't change it? Do they trust him to change the play with the defense he sees? I would love them to take the leash off of him and just let him run the offense, he is supposed to be a pretty smart guy.

I don't know the full answer to this. From picking things up in interviews, etc., it sounds like Andy has the ability to check down to a run and that sort of thing, but I think he's pretty tied down to whatever Jay wants to do.

Maybe he's just not that good?

[volcom69]

But, when an opposing defense comes out and punches Cincy in the mouth, it seems like the entire offense just folds. I feel like Gruden hits the panic button and loses his mind a little bit with his play calling.

Yup, they have not handled physical defenses well. Chicago went at them hard and knocked the ball loose all over their field. The Browns wouldn't give them a thing.

When things are going poorly, Gruden's calls just seem to get more...random...to me. There's no rhythm. It's like he has the plays on a big wheel he spins and runs whatever comes up.

Yep agree with this 100% and I think this is more of a problem then Dalton. When things don't go right Gruden panics and throws his game plans out. He needs to learn to hit right back be more physical. Problem is I don't know if he knows how to call games like that.

Well, it all kind of makes sense if you accept Goodberry's theory on how the offense works. If indeed the play call depends on the pre snap read, and post snap the only look is to make sure the pre snap read was right, then the offense looking panicked or random or whatever could be due to keying so much on what the defense is showing. It might also explain why so much of the time it seems like defenses know what's coming.

I do agree they need to hit back. Just not seeing a lot of pounder types on the O. Maybe Gresham, who has played with more fire this year, if he can keep from fumbling while he's doing it.

So are we saying that Gruden determines what play is called, and Andy can't change it? Do they trust him to change the play with the defense he sees? I would love them to take the leash off of him and just let him run the offense, he is supposed to be a pretty smart guy.

I don't know the full answer to this. From picking things up in interviews, etc., it sounds like Andy has the ability to check down to a run and that sort of thing, but I think he's pretty tied down to whatever Jay wants to do.

Maybe he's just not that good?

That may be but he has had some pretty good games in his day, like the Giants game last year. He has an ok run game in front of him, but not great. I think the problem is when things start to go bad, or the other team is more physical, the bengals fold. I don't mean they don't try, I mean they don't know how to fix it. They need to learn to be the bullies of the game, but sometimes they don't know how. That's why I would love to see a power running game!

I also would love to see Dalton for a game be able to do his thing. Let him run the show, call out the defense, audible to his plays, run the ball himself if he wants! I want to see if he can take the next step! He flashes one game, then the next I don't know what happens.

[COB]

Come on, Dalton's fine. Drink some KoolAid

[COB]

Watching this offense and listening to Marvin's comments bring me to one conclusion: Jay is not a good play caller. Every big game he gets outschemed like a bastard.

[volcom69]

Watching this offense and listening to Marvin's comments bring me to one conclusion: Jay is not a good play caller. Every big game he gets outschemed like a bastard.

This is why I wish the leash was taken off Dalton, and let him decide audibles and such. Gruden said I should have called plays to Green so much that game. So does this mean Dalton has to throw to Green because Gruden says so? I often wonder because I don't always see him scan the field, and throws to Green while other guys are open? Really makes me wonder anymore, and I'm really starting to have my doubts about Grudens offense!

[combatbengal]

Bengals just waived CB Curtis Marsh to make room for child abuser Michael Boley

/>http://cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2013/10/01/boley-heading-to-bengals-sundays-game-sold-out/

[HoosierCat]

Come on, Dalton's fine. Drink some KoolAid

That's the spirit!

In all seriousness, it's Oct. 1, we're 2-2...and half the fan base has surrendered.

Really?

Mem was right.

[volcom69]

Come on, Dalton's fine. Drink some KoolAid

That's the spirit! :P/>

In all seriousness, it's Oct. 1, we're 2-2...and half the fan base has surrendered.

Really?

Mem was right.

Well everybody was watching Dalton before the season, and he had a bad game, so now he is the worst thing ever and the bengals suck. Truthfully I think fix the game calling, and see where it goes from there. Let Andy be Andy, see how good he can be.

[combatbengal]

For me, it's the entire team! Dalton had a bad game last week and we got very lucky to get a win. He had another bad game this past weekend. The coaches have no concept when to use Gio and don't run the ball enough. We don't have a FB and go for it on 4th and 1 without using Peko, who has proven that he can open a hole that a train can go through! We waste time outs because we can't get the right people on the field or there are to many on the field! Our clock management sucks - there is never a since of urgency. No matter who we play, we always have to make it a close game - play to their level. I bet if we took on the Jags this weekend, it'd be a close game!!

Is the season over? no, but our schedule doesn't get any easier and if we don't start playing football, it will be over! Right now, we're tired with the Browns and Raven when we should be a game a head of them. Actually, we should be 4-0. We gave the first game away, barely beat the Packers, beat the Steelers and should have dominated the Browns!

On Def we're hurting at DB's. But they are keeping us in games!

So it's not just Dalton, it's the entire team! Dalton is just in a position that everything falls on him. He's expected to be a leader, he's expected to manage the offense and get the ball to WR's and RB's! His accuracy is way off and he has to find a way to improve it! He looked pretty good in preseason, so what's the issue now?

[ArmyBengal]

Again, I am still a Dalton fan and hope he does what I believe he's capable of doing.

However, I won't bury my head and make excuses either.

He hasn't had one complete game this season and his throws have been horrible.

Attribute it to whatever anyone likes, but the running game, defensive injuries, or coaches aren't causing him to overthrow wide open receivers.

I've also said there are still 12 games left and we are sitting tied for first.

This team has the chance to be right there if they pull it together.

As I've said, my patience with Dalton (who I like and root for) has grown thinner with each week passed to this point in time.

I'm not asking for Josh to be inserted or a trade to be made. I want them to figure out why they are having the concerns they are.

If it's determined that it's Dalton, then be done with it and move on.

[combatbengal]

What ever it is, they better fix it fast!!