State of the Bengals

[volcom69]

Yea Green seems to be having trouble with man coverage this season, and can't seem to get out of double coverage.

[jjakq27]

I'm also inclined to blame AJ Green for AJ Green's issues as much as Andy or Gruden. He isn't having a great year so far, period.

I agree. He hasn't had a great season so far. He isn't a secret anymore and sometimes that makes it tough to maintain a previous level when you're getting doubdle-teamed. I also think he let Joe Hayden get in his head a little yesterday. It's hard not to get caught up in the rivalry and trash-talking. However, just like the playoff game last year, Green had the coverage beaten by 5 yards a couple of times and Andy was unable to deliver. That's got to mess with your confidence as much as anything.

I agree a lot of the fix on offense has to come with a running game. If they want to help Andy out, then get physical and pound the ball. It's almost like they are afraid to run it 2 times in a row. It's almost run, pass, pass all the time. Time to mix it up Jay.

I also have to agree the defense had not been as dominant as they were down the stretch last year. They have been good, but with this team they need better. I also will say it dosnt help when they are on the field 81 and 71 plays for two weeks. Finally saw Atkins do something yesterday which was good, but still 3rd downs where was the defense. So as good as they are I'm hoping to see better results, and how about some more turnovers.

I really thought those days were over when Brat was let go. But I think Jay loves the pass even more.

[HoosierCat]

JG with some more film room work on the passing game.

/>http://joegoodberry.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/allow-me-to-defend-dalton-then-critique-him/

[kingwilly]

Still far too early to panic, especially when the AFC North looks like such a collective mess. Dalton was terrible yesterday and I struggle to find any confidence in him right now, but that doesn't mean he will singlehandedly ruin the entire football team. Joe Flacco just won a Super Bowl MVP award, and he looks as crappy as ever right now.

Was the game even surprising at all? Cleveland has had our number at the Dawg Pound in recent seasons and they're fielding their most talented roster in years. Sure, it's discouraging to see the offense struggle so much against a capable defense, but it's also the fourth straight capable defense they've had to face (with another coming next week) to start the season. We're not in a 2010 nosedive yet.

I don't see much panic. The issues seem obvious to me. I hope they fix it up before it become a panic.

Dalton is at a crucial stage. He's carrying a big burden and has to prove he can do it. Gruden didn't help much with the playcalling though.

[volcom69]

I'm also inclined to blame AJ Green for AJ Green's issues as much as Andy or Gruden. He isn't having a great year so far, period.

I agree. He hasn't had a great season so far. He isn't a secret anymore and sometimes that makes it tough to maintain a previous level when you're getting doubdle-teamed. I also think he let Joe Hayden get in his head a little yesterday. It's hard not to get caught up in the rivalry and trash-talking. However, just like the playoff game last year, Green had the coverage beaten by 5 yards a couple of times and Andy was unable to deliver. That's got to mess with your confidence as much as anything.

I agree a lot of the fix on offense has to come with a running game. If they want to help Andy out, then get physical and pound the ball. It's almost like they are afraid to run it 2 times in a row. It's almost run, pass, pass all the time. Time to mix it up Jay.

I also have to agree the defense had not been as dominant as they were down the stretch last year. They have been good, but with this team they need better. I also will say it dosnt help when they are on the field 81 and 71 plays for two weeks. Finally saw Atkins do something yesterday which was good, but still 3rd downs where was the defense. So as good as they are I'm hoping to see better results, and how about some more turnovers.

I really thought those days were over when Brat was let go. But I think Jay loves the pass even more.

Jay sure does love the pass. Bengals did not have a run in the game after 9:00 some minutes left in the 3rd quarter, the score was 7-3!

Gruden threw the ball 23 times to end the game, and that dosnt count Dalton's runs. I just read that stat.

If there was ever anything to blame after seeing what I'm seeing, and reading the gameplan is just horrible. Jay Gruden needs to learn to use his weapons the right way. He is over thinking things way to much, time to make it simple. This has nothing to do with the o-line after seeing it again they did not play all that bad, run blocking could be better though.

I've been hard on Dalton, I've also stood up for him a lot. I do know it's not all his not at all. Some of his passes are horrible, I really wish his long ball was better, but Grudens play calling is killing him. I really hope Gruden looks at this game, and wonders what he was thinking. Throwing the ball for 23 times in a row is just horrible espicially when your QB is struggling!

[kingwilly]

I'm also inclined to blame AJ Green for AJ Green's issues as much as Andy or Gruden. He isn't having a great year so far, period.

I agree. He hasn't had a great season so far. He isn't a secret anymore and sometimes that makes it tough to maintain a previous level when you're getting doubdle-teamed. I also think he let Joe Hayden get in his head a little yesterday. It's hard not to get caught up in the rivalry and trash-talking. However, just like the playoff game last year, Green had the coverage beaten by 5 yards a couple of times and Andy was unable to deliver. That's got to mess with your confidence as much as anything.

I agree a lot of the fix on offense has to come with a running game. If they want to help Andy out, then get physical and pound the ball. It's almost like they are afraid to run it 2 times in a row. It's almost run, pass, pass all the time. Time to mix it up Jay.

I also have to agree the defense had not been as dominant as they were down the stretch last year. They have been good, but with this team they need better. I also will say it dosnt help when they are on the field 81 and 71 plays for two weeks. Finally saw Atkins do something yesterday which was good, but still 3rd downs where was the defense. So as good as they are I'm hoping to see better results, and how about some more turnovers.

I really thought those days were over when Brat was let go. But I think Jay loves the pass even more.

Jay sure does love the pass. Bengals did not have a run in the game after 9:00 some minutes left in the 3rd quarter, the score was 7-3!

Gruden threw the ball 23 times to end the game, and that dosnt count Dalton's runs. I just read that stat.

If there was ever anything to blame after seeing what I'm seeing, and reading the gameplan is just horrible. Jay Gruden needs to learn to use his weapons the right way. He is over thinking things way to much, time to make it simple. This has nothing to do with the o-line after seeing it again they did not play all that bad, run blocking could be better though.

I've been hard on Dalton, I've also stood up for him a lot. I do know it's not all his not at all. Some of his passes are horrible, I really wish his long ball was better, but Grudens play calling is killing him. I really hope Gruden looks at this game, and wonders what he was thinking. Throwing the ball for 23 times in a row is just horrible espicially when your QB is struggling!

23x in a row? Wow. Didn't know that.

That's not gonna work out.

[HoosierCat]

There was actually one more run in there around the 4 minute mark in Q3 but it was negated by a penalty. Still, I think I counted four non-Andy runs in the whole second half.

Oh, over lunch I clicked thought all the past seasons on profootball-reference.com. The 1,340 rushing yards they will generate on their current pace would be a franchise record low for a non-strike season (949 in 9 games in '82). That includes the old 14 game schedule from 1968-77.

Again, I think you can put some of that on Dalton for not beating them when they stack the box against the run. But we've had far worse QBs (Klingler, Akili, Fitzy, everyone in 2002) and still been able to run the ball before. I hate to keep harping on the fullback thing but it's the only real change I can think of in the run game...

[volcom69]

Yea I think he has thrown the ball over 40 times a game now. Heck in the steelers game he almost had 50 at halftime, till Gruden thought he should run the ball. It's crazy to think he is throwing it that much, and it's not right.

[volcom69]

There was actually one more run in there around the 4 minute mark in Q3 but it was negated by a penalty. Still, I think I counted four non-Andy runs in the whole second half.

Oh, over lunch I clicked thought all the past seasons on profootball-reference.com. The 1,340 rushing yards they will generate on their current pace would be a franchise record low for a non-strike season (949 in 9 games in '82). That includes the old 14 game schedule from 1968-77.

Again, I think you can put some of that on Dalton for not beating them when they stack the box against the run. But we've had far worse QBs (Klingler, Akili, Fitzy, everyone in 2002) and still been able to run the ball before. I hate to keep harping on the fullback thing but it's the only real change I can think of in the run game...

Thanks for that I forgot that run. Still they are down 7-3, run the freaking ball! Give the defense a break they are playing way to much at this point.

Dalton needs to start taking what the defense gives him. There are guys open, but he is not looking for them. I really think he Gruden and Marvin need to get togther and simplify the offense to Dalton's stengths.

[Stripes]

I think the biggest problem with the run game is the opposition. We've yet to face a team that isn't at least competent against the run, and three of them have been fantastic against the run in recent memory (Chicago, Pittsburgh, and Cleveland). Green Bay is no slouch either, their issues are against the pass.

That's really a daunting four game stretch for any offense's running game to deal with.

Of course, on Sunday there was one issue of at least equal significance... Gruden didn't call the damned plays.

[Kazkal]

There was actually one more run in there around the 4 minute mark in Q3 but it was negated by a penalty. Still, I think I counted four non-Andy runs in the whole second half.

Oh, over lunch I clicked thought all the past seasons on profootball-reference.com. The 1,340 rushing yards they will generate on their current pace would be a franchise record low for a non-strike season (949 in 9 games in '82). That includes the old 14 game schedule from 1968-77.

Again, I think you can put some of that on Dalton for not beating them when they stack the box against the run. But we've had far worse QBs (Klingler, Akili, Fitzy, everyone in 2002) and still been able to run the ball before. I hate to keep harping on the fullback thing but it's the only real change I can think of in the run game...

Conner signed with Giants,Is Prisley done for the season?

[combatbengal]

Everybody on here is bringing up good points. You know what would be cool? Invite some or all of us to the post game interviews and let us ask the hard questions - the media sure isn't doing it. Maybe it would open some eyes if they heard from the fans!

[volcom69]

Pressley is on PUP

[bwillycuse]

There was actually one more run in there around the 4 minute mark in Q3 but it was negated by a penalty. Still, I think I counted four non-Andy runs in the whole second half.

Oh, over lunch I clicked thought all the past seasons on profootball-reference.com. The 1,340 rushing yards they will generate on their current pace would be a franchise record low for a non-strike season (949 in 9 games in '82). That includes the old 14 game schedule from 1968-77.

Again, I think you can put some of that on Dalton for not beating them when they stack the box against the run. But we've had far worse QBs (Klingler, Akili, Fitzy, everyone in 2002) and still been able to run the ball before. I hate to keep harping on the fullback thing but it's the only real change I can think of in the run game...

Thanks for that I forgot that run. Still they are down 7-3, run the freaking ball! Give the defense a break they are playing way to much at this point.

Dalton needs to start taking what the defense gives him. There are guys open, but he is not looking for them. I really think he Gruden and Marvin need to get togther and simplify the offense to Dalton's stengths.

Didn't they already simplify the offense once for Dalton?

I cant recall any time when a team simplifies the offense for a QB and it worked. Its generally a sign that the QB cant handle the NFL game.

Its just not encouraging that Dalton doesnt have a good deep ball (Not a great selling point for Green to re-sign), isnt fast and isnt reading the defense well and making the right passes. Ill give the Browns defense credit, they are playing very well (better than the Bengals IMO). But Dalton's ceiling seems lower today IMO.

As has been said here, for the sake of winning now, the running game needs to be featured.

For the sake of long term winning and using the two 1st rd TE's and high 1st rd WR - Serious planning needs to be made about the QB position.

I hope Dalton and Gruden can figure it out for both their sakes.

[HoosierCat]

No, I don't think the complexity/simplicity of the offense has anything to do with yesterday. To echo Whit, it was just a cluster-you-know-what all around.

Dalton forgot how to throw the ball.

Gruden forgot how to run the ball.

Cook forgot how to snap.

The o-line couldn't open holes in the run game and pass protection was meh.

Receivers struggled to get open and when they did Dalton missed them or didn't see them.

The defense couldn't get off the field on third down, didn't pressure Hoyer for much of the game and didn't produce any turnovers.

It was a sht game. Hopefully they got it out of their system for the rest of the season.

[volcom69]

I just think Gruden is over thinking things way to much. When he had the lead instead of running the ball to take the time off he is throwing it, same when they are only down 7-3 he forgets to run it. I really hope that starts to change this week. I'm not looking for 40 runs, but a nice balenced offense would be ok.

Hoosier is so right about the defense, offense sucked bad yesterday we know that, but defense was not all that great.

Browns had what 2 drives for 90 yards and TDs, a couple 80 yard drives as well, against a 3rd string QB, and a poor o-line.

Browns converted over 50% of there 3rd downs, that's not very good. Pressure was ok, but when they needed it nobody was around. Adam Jones played a bad game never turns his head to look for the ball.

Offense sucks, but defense needs to play better as well. Good thing there is a lot of games left to work things out. Question is now how they respond!

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Reading the NY Times article tonight on the increase of Black QBs and their media treatment, this comment from a Seattle fan made me "not" think of Dalton:

Dungy is right in two ways - there are still lingering stereotypes, but they're changing fast. We Seattleites are big on Wilson not because he's a classic drop back passer, or even because of his running ability, but because of his leadership. Against the Texans, down by 14 in the middle of the fourth quarter, on our own 2, having done nothing all day on offense, 3 starting linemen out because of injury - looks as bad as it can get. Wilson leads them 98 yards to score, then leads them again in overtime to win. Leadership.

Of course the term "leadership" isn't really quantifiable, and really the only major issue I have with Dalton's #'s and production his first two seasons, is his extremely low YPC, which is even more curious when you consider you have one of the top 3 deep threats in the game on your offense. Of course this season Dalton has just been plain bad most of the time (exception of half of the Green Bay game).

I never see him do what is mentioned above, almost ever.

Consider Dalton had the same types of stats Brady did his first two years in the league...but Brady went to SuperBowls and won playoff games, and showed marked improvement his 3rd year as a full-timer. Dalton's improvement last year was a bit incremental, but fine, just too many turnovers (27 to 20 over-all), too many batted-down throws, and not enough big chunk passing plays (they are always, always, seemingly in 3rd down situations, dinking and dunking around).

What I expect to see from him is growth, maturity, smarter decisions, making plays when he is expected to, which means hitting open WR's in big moments and small. He does neither too often.

What was embarrassing yesterday, outside of the poor pass blocking at times, was Dalton...just like he was in the playoff game, a complete embarrassment. Throwing into lineman's hands, missing wide-open WR's, and making a lot of the ones caught into circus catches (see Gresham's grab down the middle yesterday vs the Browns). This is year THREE, time to start getting it.

He's been doing this every week now, it's more than just a "bad game," it's just bad NFL QB'ing.

He really has no choice but to bounce back, and probably will next week to whatever extent, Pats or not. But pay attention to a similarly-sized QB on the other side who does not have a problem with passes being batted-down at the LOS multiple times a game, if ever. And then wait a game or two before another bad start wipes the taste of the previous win from our collective mouths when we realize just why they hover around .500 as a team, despite having the talent, for the most part, to be winning games like the one in Chicago or at Cleveland.

[HoosierCat]

Oh for the love of Pete, not this identity horsesht again...

If it looked like the offense lacked some coherence and consistency in whiffing twice in the red zone and 12 times on third and fourth downs, Gruden agrees with you. In the wake of four handoffs in the first 18:30 of a second half they trailed 7-3, 10-3, and 10-6, Gruden admitted Monday his unit has an identity crisis.

"That’s probably our biggest fault that we’re still trying to get one. We’re working towards that," Gruden said of an I.D.

Really? You're in your third year and your offense lacks an identity? Well, whose fault could that be?

Clearly this team needs better t-shirt slogans...

[ArmyBengal]

GRRRR and SH*T

On a side note, Wilfork is out for the season in New England.

[HoosierCat]

And more, via Harvey at espn...

CINCINNATI -- From his vantage point on the Cincinnati Bengals' sideline, offensive coordinator Jay Gruden could see the carnage that was getting ready to ensue. He hoped his quarterback did, too.

Andy Dalton did, alright, but with the play clock ticking toward zero, he ran out of time to make the necessary line-of-scrimmage adjustment.

So, on a pivotal fourth-and-1 late in the second quarter of Sunday's game at Cleveland, instead of running for a first down, the Bengals "ran into a slaughter."

That was the way Gruden described to reporters Monday afternoon the sequence that resulted in running back BenJarvus Green-Ellis' two-yard loss on an important play that had originally been designed to gain two yards. As he took scribes through the play, Gruden came to an important conclusion: next time, someone, anyone, has to call timeout and get a new play put in place.

"Hindsight, running down on the clock, fourth-down-and-1 on such an important play, take a timeout," Gruden said. "That's on me more so than anybody, probably."

PROTIP: if you see a disaster developing on the field, call a time out!

Important lesson learned by freaking genius Jay Gruden just yesterday! Hot off the PROTIP presses!

[ArmyBengal]

Probably ?? F*CKING PROBABLY ??

What a douchebag.

[volcom69]

I sometimes wonder about this Gruden guy

[volcom69]

Another thing Marvin is the head coach, explain to me why during the game he didn't go over to Gruden and say, "hey I think we need to run it more"? No he allows Gruden to throw it all over the place second half, and give Dalton no help? Somebody explain this to me

Considering in his press conference today Marvin says, "we need to run the ball more" what a joke!

[Stripes]

Maybe they're making a concerted effort not to waste as many timeouts as they usually have.

[HoosierCat]

Another thing Marvin is the head coach, explain to me why during the game he didn't go over to Gruden and say, "hey I think we need to run it more"? No he allows Gruden to throw it all over the place second half, and give Dalton no help? Somebody explain this to me

Considering in his press conference today Marvin says, "we need to run the ball more" what a joke!

No doubt. According to Marv, they got "spooked" out of the run game. What, did the effing ghost of Art Modell appear on the sidelines and threaten to move the team to London if they ran the ball?