Steelers @ Bengals Pregame Chatter

[kingwilly]

No mistakes, when mistakes are made this team has a hard time coming back from them.

Sorry volcom, but I have to disagree. One thing that stood out at me was how resilient they were yesterday. For example, one thing that I think got lost due to Green's second pick was that throw came on a first and 10 that they picked up after a Cook false start pushed them back to a first and 15 three plays earlier. On their opening drive of the third quarter (which ended in a TD) they fought their way out of a first and 20 prompted by a Gilligan hold. That score put them up 21-10 in the third despite losing the turnover battle 0-2 in the first half.

The issue wasn't that they couldn't come back from mistakes, it was that they couldn't stop making fresh ones.

I agree with you Hoosier. It was one mistake too far, the Sanu fumble being the one.

I saw a resilient team that overcame all but the last error. Even at 21-17, we just had the Burfict INT.... They were in the perfect spot to finish/close the game out.

28-17, its very different game.

On the topic of Pitt game, I see a woeful Pitt team, injured and deficient in talent at key spots, RB, TE, LB, WR....

This game get the men in stripes back on track.

[HoosierCat]

Must...resist..urge...to...post...ABBA...video...

Steelers sign center Fernando...Velasco.

Also, though I've seen no official confirmation, bengalsis posted over at GB that Shank signed with the Steelers.

[COB]

This is lazy. Yes, Ben has an amazing skill set that has definitely won them some games.

But they won Super Bowls thanks to defense and the ability to run the ball. Ben was just along for the ride:

2005 - 9/21 - 0 TD - 2 INT - 22.6 QB Rating - W - They actually WON this game?

2008 - 21/30 - 1 TD - 1 INT - 93.2 QB Rating - W - Not bad. Not spectacular.

2010 - 25/40 - 2 TD - 2 INT - 77.4 QB Rating - L - Again, pretty meh overall.

Do we honestly think Dalton isn't capable of this kind of performance?

No, he hasn't shown well yet in the playoffs. He also hasn't been surrounded by the same teams that Woerthlisberger has had the privelege of playing with. Let's see what happens this year before declaring that we know his ultimate ceiling.

Now you've done it.

INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD WAR!!

Lazy? I won't call you lazy. In fact, the mental gymnastics you engaged in, the reasoning labyrinth you negotiated, to arrive at the conclusion that Dalton is comparable to Roethlisberger, displays a gargantuan work ethic.

Let me get this straight - Dalton is capable of having just as bad a playoff game as Ben has had, therefore we should hang on to him in anticipation of that flop of a playoff game? Guess what? We don't have to wait. We've already seen him in two losing playoff games.

You've ignored the facts:

1. Roethlisberger got them to 3 Super Bowls. If you think Andy can do anything comparable to Ben, you are dreaming. In the face of pressure, Ben shrugs guys off, moves around, then fires downfield passes Andy couldn't throw in ideal circumstances. Ben's a freak. So cite his qb rating in 3 Super Bowls all you want. He won 2 of them. And more importantly, he got them there in the first place.

2. Roethlisberger can take a team on his back and win a game. He's done it numerous times. Lot's of teams have a good defense and a decent running game, and end up going nowhere without that great QB.

Ben was just along for the ride? This is an outrage, sir, and I challenge you to a duel.

2003, Maddox starts all 16 Steeler games, they miss the playoffs. That's the train Ben jumps on. 2004, Ben shows up, starts 13 games, they go to two playoff games. 2005, Ben takes them to the playoffs and wins 4 playoff games including the Super Bowl. If Ben was along for the ride, the train he jumped on was going nowhere with Andy Dalton Tommy Maddox driving it. He made the difference, and still does to this day.

Ben's a swashbuckling, audacious conqueror. Andy's an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks.

Congratulations, you win the Nobel Prize. You somehow put me in a position to defend Ben Roethlisberger, a being I hate more than cheeseburger hamburger helper itself.

[volcom69]

Dalton is a good WCO QB, which is what he is doing here. Is he the best QB no, but he is a good QB. He played his best game yesterday, and if he continues down that road it will be great. The O -line gave him the time and he delivered. His numbers in the first few years are as good as some of the best to play the game. Why so quick to call him Dilfer 2.0 when his numbers are already better then his? I don't understand all this hate for Dalton, he had done nothing but get this team to the playoffs, that's all I ask for is a chance.

[HoosierCat]

On the Andy Dalton front, I would like to address one preseason complaint: that Dalton hadn't completed any passes over 10 yards, thus demonstrating his unsuitability as an NFL QB.

Against the Bears, Dalton was 5-for-6 on passes over 10 yards, and the sixth was the pick that hit Green in the hands.

Critics, please adjust your goalposts accordingly.

[COB]

You guys and all your facts! You're going to ruin a perfectly good message board war. Comparing his numbers to Dilfer's? Agghhhh! Looking at his downfield throws from Sunday? Guurrggh!

[HoosierCat]

I know. I suck. I'm sorry.

(At least don't suck as bad as the Redskins...)

[combatbengal]

Not to change the subject but is anyone watching this Eagle offense? Good lord, they have some sweet plays and are moving like a chaeta!! With one play, they can un up the middle, dump the ball off on a bubble pass or hit the TE on a streak! Another play, they had a lineman lined up outside with the WR's for blocking.... Very creative and it's working.

Now back to Dalton. He looked really good. We had some very long drives that turned into scores! Didn't see that that much last season! If we can protect the ball and get rid of the BS penalties, we're going to be really good. We have the ability to sweep the division this season!!

[HoosierCat]

Not to change the subject but is anyone watching this Eagle offense? Good lord, they have some sweet plays and are moving like a chaeta!!

While I am sure you meant cheetah, as in the really fast cat, I like chaeta. Hey, your offense moves like worm hair!

/>http://www.thefreedictionary.com/chaeta

I learn something new every day...

As for Kelly's o, hard to say tonight because the skins are giving the jags a run for crappiest team in the league. But yeah it's fun to watch.

[HoosierCat]

This just in: the Redskins will change their name to the Black Holes because they suck so hard.

[volcom69]

This just in: the Redskins will change their name to the Black Holes because they suck so hard.

Or the deadskins

[HoosierCat]

This just in: the Redskins will change their name to the Black Holes because they suck so hard.

Or the deadskins

That's totally demeaning to Zombie-Americans.

[skyline]

Now you've done it.

INTERNET MESSAGE BOARD WAR!!

I love wars!!!

Lazy? I won't call you lazy. In fact, the mental gymnastics you engaged in, the reasoning labyrinth you negotiated, to arrive at the conclusion that Dalton is comparable to Roethlisberger, displays a gargantuan work ethic.

Indeed. Don't try to keep up. You'll pull something. Especially when you realize that I said no such thing. I simply pointed out the fact that the Steelers were able to win 2 Super Bowls with the QB putting up performances that were less than inspiring. Certainly not examples of Ben throwing the team on his back. More like James Harrison and company dragging Ben across the finish line kicking and screaming.

During Ben's first two seasons in the league he threw the ball less than 300 times and threw less than 20 TDs. There's a gunslinger for you! It's almost like the Steelers didn't need their amazing defense. Just let Ben sling his way to victory!

Let me get this straight - Dalton is capable of having just as bad a playoff game as Ben has had, therefore we should hang on to him in anticipation of that flop of a playoff game? Guess what? We don't have to wait. We've already seen him in two losing playoff games.

Let me get this straight - You like to make up ignorant arguments that were never made so you can look good when you rip them to pieces?

We should hang on to Dalton because he's shown himself capable of playing good football. He's played two piss poor playoff games, but he also didn't have anyone else on the team jumping in to help him out. My point in posting Ben's Super Bowl performances is to demonstrate that he's also fallen flat on his face in the playoffs. The difference is that he had a supporting cast that was able to overcome that.

You've ignored the facts:

1. Roethlisberger got them to 3 Super Bowls. If you think Andy can do anything comparable to Ben, you are dreaming. In the face of pressure, Ben shrugs guys off, moves around, then fires downfield passes Andy couldn't throw in ideal circumstances. Ben's a freak. So cite his qb rating in 3 Super Bowls all you want. He won 2 of them. And more importantly, he got them there in the first place.

Yep, he's a freak. I've already acknowledged that. 2 more super powers that I'll add to your list.

1) His body is actually able to support that gargantuan head of his.

2) He somehow has the ability to post a QB rating of 22 in a game and STILL have people believe that he threw the team on his back and carried them to sweet victory. His ridiculously good defense and supporting cast just sat in the stands and clapped.

But, oh yes, I forgot. It was his stellar regular season that put them in that position. Sort of like in the glorious Super Bowl year of 2008 when he posted 17 TDs and 15 INTs with a QB rating of 80.1. I can only think of a couple other semi-recent quarterbacks who went on to win a Super Bowl after posting such mediocre #s. But, we'll get to them in a minute.

2. Roethlisberger can take a team on his back and win a game. He's done it numerous times. Lot's of teams have a good defense and a decent running game, and end up going nowhere without that great QB.

Yep, he IS capable of doing that. Trent Dilfer was not, and yet he somehow ended up with a ring as well. Oh yeah, and that Brad Johnson guy managed to pull it off.

Ben was just along for the ride? This is an outrage, sir, and I challenge you to a duel.

Granted, that was an overstatement. But I'm glad you're outraged. I haven't enjoyed an internet debate like this since Hair "left" our hallowed forms.

2003, Maddox starts all 16 Steeler games, they miss the playoffs. That's the train Ben jumps on. 2004, Ben shows up, starts 13 games, they go to two playoff games. 2005, Ben takes them to the playoffs and wins 4 playoff games including the Super Bowl. If Ben was along for the ride, the train he jumped on was going nowhere with Andy Dalton Tommy Maddox driving it. He made the difference, and still does to this day.

Yes, Ben made all the difference. It has nothing to do with the fact that the Steelers' D went from around the 10-12 spot in 2003 to being the hands-down #1 defense in the league in 2004. But, you're right...Ben probably suited up on both sides of the ball. He made ALL the difference.

Point #2...being an upgrade over Tommy Maddox is hardly something to brag about.

Ben's a swashbuckling, audacious conqueror. Andy's an errand boy, sent by grocery clerks.

I'll take #2, thanks.

#1

#2

Yes, I've now compared Andy Dalton to Kurt Warner. Have fun with that one. But, keep in mind, it's your fault for mentioning grocery store clerks and their errand boys.

Congratulations, you win the Nobel Prize. You somehow put me in a position to defend Ben Roethlisberger, a being I hate more than cheeseburger hamburger helper itself.

I sincerely hope you showered afterwards.

[ArmyBengal]

I like cheeseburger hamburger helper.

[Wraith]

INTERNET WAR!!!!!

You Demeaned Cheeseburger Hamburger Helper I DEMAND SATISFACTION!

Anybody else out there wondering if the Internet will destroy our civilization as we know it? Give all the people a voice and you get a whole lot of stupidity....I say as I type on a message board, ironic no?

[jjakq27]

Was skimming Pitt PG sportwriter Ed Bouchette's twitter feed from yesterday and ran across this gem:

Ed Bouchette ‏@EdBouchette 18h

#Steelers potentially one score down at 10-2 but fans now streaming out of Heinz Field with 9 minutes to go

Can I hear one more time about how the Bengals fan base sucks?

I wonder how this will impact the Monday night crowd; usually games at PBS vs. Pitt are half Steeler fans.

Maybe the Pirates were on.

[jjakq27]

The Steelers are a dumpster fire. Only one solution - Some tough talk from their coach about how they'll have to chew on it for a while, own it, experience it, then come out and play Steeler football!

He says that crap after every loss. Talk about a guy who's gone along for the ride. He reminds me of Barry Switzer when he coached Dallas.

[HoosierCat]

Best. Internet War. Ever.

(I like the stroganoff Hamburger Helper myself...)

[HoosierCat]

Bouchette tweeting from Tomlin's presser right now. A few of note:

Tomlin: Suisham hamstring "not significant" and has a chance to kick Monday

Tomlin: Heath Miller will increase his work this week. Cortez Allen (ankle) "we'll watch him this week" won't work early in week

Tomlin on James Harrison: "We better be sharp in how we deal with him.''

Tomlin: Lawrence Timmons will make the calls on defense Monday

Tomlin: Beachum right now the starting center. Kion Wilson will start at ILB for Foote

Tomlin: Thought Jarvis Jones and Jason Worilds did some nice things. Will play those similarly to first game rotation

[HoosierCat]

More fuel for the best internet war ever. Measured by espn's QBR stat, Dalton is the No. 2 QB in the league right now.

[skyline]

More fuel for the best internet war ever. Measured by espn's QBR stat, Dalton is the No. 2 QB in the league right now.

So, is this basically the sabermetrics of football? I'm a bit embarrassed as a stat teacher that I haven't looked more into this.

[HoosierCat]

Yah. And a lot of people consider it hopelessly borked. Espn has been cagey about exactly how it's calculated and its had some oddball results.

/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_quarterback_rating

[skyline]

Yah. And a lot of people consider it hopelessly borked. Espn has been cagey about exactly how it's calculated and its had some oddball results.

http://en.wikipedia....rterback_rating

Just read this as well:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6833215/explaining-statistics-total-quarterback-rating

It's an interesting idea, but there seems to be a lot of subjectivity in it.

[HoosierCat]

For what it's worth, football outsiders' rankings put Dalton at 8 for the week, which sounds a little more reasonable. All the rest of the division's QBs finished in the bottom five.

[skyline]

For what it's worth, football outsiders' rankings put Dalton at 8 for the week, which sounds a little more reasonable. All the rest of the division's QBs finished in the bottom five.

Probably more reasonable, yes.

That said, if you don't believe the two INTs were his fault (and I don't), then he had a pretty freaking fantastic game. His completion percentage was nearly 80% for crying out loud, and he didn't spend the whole game dinking and dunking.

People still don't think he's the guy, and I get it. But you've got to score 1 in Dalton's favor after this one. We'll see if he can sustain it.