File this under "things that suck"

[TJJackson]

Michael Johnson

Tweets from today

Jason La Canfora ‏@JasonLaCanfora

Bengals have indicated they will franchise DE Michael Johnson. No tags had been officially placed by start of today. Deadline is Monday

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter

They haven't officially done so yet, but Bengals are planning to use franchise tag on DE Michael Johnson.

this means all that bluster - declared multiple times publicly, mind you - about really wanting to return to the Bengals was just bullcr@p, and that he wants more than he is worth to return.

just when we had finally put together a pretty darn good line

*heavy sigh*

I don' mind him earning a franchise salary, but to me, this means he is gone after this next season, period, end of story

To increase the overall suckitude, the fact that The Flesh Zeppelin hasn't agreed to an extension combined with this move means we are all but certain to lose him as well, albeit immediately instead of after a 1 year delay, setting this team back yet another big step

Drafting an OT (one who can play RT) early on is starting to look a lot more likely all of the sudden

[skyline]

After knowing you for so many years, your negativity still astounds me.

He just wants to see what his market value is. Nothing wrong with that. Yes, in a perfect world, players would just take reasonable salaries and put loyalty above all else, but that's simply not the world we live in. And, it's hard to blame players, when their careers could end tomorrow with a blown out knee, spinal injury, etc.

As a Bengals fan, he'll be back next year, and this is good. Sure, I'd love to have seen a long-term deal instead of a quick fix, but it is what it is. Maybe we now get a chance to draft a solid young DE in the draft and the loss of Michael Johnson next season won't be such a big blow. Or, better yet, maybe they get something done with an entire year to posture and negotiate. Time will tell.

[Wraith]

This doesn't preclude getting a long term deal done with Micheal it just means they have more time to negotiate. Giving Andre a boat-load of money is risky, I think that they still get something done with him but there are many options for RT available in both FA and the draft if someone wants to throw huge sums of money at a guy who is prone to being lazy when too comfortable, I think this was the right choice.

[volcom69]

It's a smart move with the tag. Only thing that worries me is we have yet to hear them talking with any of there free agents, dosnt mean they are not though. They have the money, just hope they start getting things done.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not worried about it and thought the tag was going to come into play for one or the other.

I honestly thought it was going to be big Dre that got the tag, but neither here nor there.

It simply gives them more time to work out a deal without having to worry about what he may draw on the market.

Big Dre has no reason to sign a deal right now unless it's so over the top it doesn't make sense to leave.

Time will tell, but don't get me wrong. The Bengals have to find a way to get these done.

You don't have the philosophy of "build through the draft" and then when it comes to time, watch those players walk.

55 million under the cap. "55" !!!

I know they are probably trying to save some of that and push it to next year when Green and Dalton are due as well.

[Wraith]

According to Geoff Hobson they are only $40 million over the cap (apparently the LUMINA needed an oil change and it's getting hard to find parts for a 1989 Chevy Lumina...that's where is other $14 million went. Maybe it's time to trade the old girl in on a Bugatti Veyron but it is so hard to let go) and $11 million just went to big Mike, they are apparently saving the rest for Andre which means Big Boi gonna get PAID! Minus the 5 Million for Draft Picks, 4 Million for Restricted FA (Jeromy Miles is apparently in for a BIG payday too), and 5 million for Injuries (still not sure what the hell this means) like $15 million per year (keep in mind that Andre was already the second highest paid RT in the NFL @ $8 million), I think that would be some sort of record......getting tired of Hobson reporting these ridiculous numbers it is insulting to those of us that can do basic math (that means those of us not from Kentucky).

I figure that the real numbers are something like 2.5 mill for restricted FA, 5 mill for draft picks, 11 mill for Michael Johnson (likely to be reduced due to a long term contract prior to July 15th), 9 mill for Andre (allotting for a modest pay raise to make him the highest paid RT in football), lets say 8 million for one year contracts for Nate Clements, Robert Geathers, Terrance Newman, and Adam Jones. That still leaves 18.5 million for Free Agents and/or to lock up AJ Green, Geno Atkins, Jermaine Gresham, and Andy Dalton long term - Katie better get crackin'.

LINK: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-like-Mike-with-tag/eb23c6c6-7b88-42ce-a91c-63bea0468386

[TJJackson]

The Bengals have to find a way to get these done.

You don't have the philosophy of "build through the draft" and then when it comes to time, watch those players walk.

55 million under the cap. "55" !!!

+1

[TJJackson]

According to Geoff Hobson they are only $40 million over the cap (apparently the LUMINA needed an oil change and that's where is other $14 million went) and $11 million just went to big Mike, they are apparently saving the rest for Andre which means Big Boi gonna get PAID! Minus the 5 Million for Draft Picks, 4 Million for Restricted FA (Jeromy Miles is apparently in for a BIG payday too), and 5 million for Injuries (still not sure what the hell this means) like $15 million per year (keep in mind that Andre was already the second highest paid RT in the NFL @ $8 million), I think that would be some sort of record......getting tired of Hobson reporting these ridiculous numbers it is insulting to those of us that can do basic math (that means those of us not from Kentucky).

LINK: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-like-Mike-with-tag/eb23c6c6-7b88-42ce-a91c-63bea0468386

I think the hobsonization of the cap number every year is probably one of the primary reasons few if any of us read his stuff anymore

[kingwilly]

I don't see them tagging MJ as a negative. He would make $11M guaranteed. That is a metric ass ton of money. Also, they are still working for a long term deal. So, how is this bad?

Maybe you'd rather them not tag him, offer him a halfassed contract and have him leave? Seems this is the best way to show good faith, pay the man and still get him to negotiate long term...

If anything, they will lift the tag once the long term deal is done, then tag Big Andre. That is the smartest move they could make, since long term for Big Andre could be galactic dollars...

[kingwilly]

According to Geoff Hobson they are only $40 million over the cap (apparently the LUMINA needed an oil change and it's getting hard to find parts for a 1989 Chevy Lumina...that's where is other $14 million went. Maybe it's time to trade the old girl in on a Bugatti Veyron but it is so hard to let go) and $11 million just went to big Mike, they are apparently saving the rest for Andre which means Big Boi gonna get PAID! Minus the 5 Million for Draft Picks, 4 Million for Restricted FA (Jeromy Miles is apparently in for a BIG payday too), and 5 million for Injuries (still not sure what the hell this means) like $15 million per year (keep in mind that Andre was already the second highest paid RT in the NFL @ $8 million), I think that would be some sort of record......getting tired of Hobson reporting these ridiculous numbers it is insulting to those of us that can do basic math (that means those of us not from Kentucky).

I figure that the real numbers are something like 2.5 mill for restricted FA, 5 mill for draft picks, 11 mill for Michael Johnson (likely to be reduced due to a long term contract prior to July 15th), 9 mill for Andre (allotting for a modest pay raise to make him the highest paid RT in football), lets say 8 million for one year contracts for Nate Clements, Robert Geathers, Terrance Newman, and Adam Jones. That still leaves 18.5 million for Free Agents and/or to lock up AJ Green, Geno Atkins, Jermaine Gresham, and Andy Dalton long term - Katie better get crackin'.

LINK: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-like-Mike-with-tag/eb23c6c6-7b88-42ce-a91c-63bea0468386

Miles can't be earning $4M... right? Guy does not even start on D???? This is the kind of stuff that ruins a team budget. Plenty of late round athletes who can do what Miles does, at 1/6 the price.

I also am not a fan of having Clements or Clemons back. Ghee, Prater, Dre... plenty of young fast CB's to step up. At the other S spot, they can take Vaccaro or Elam and lock that spot up for the next 5 years...

[Wraith]

King, that was just a joke, I am not even sure Miles is a Restricted FA but 4 million for role players not good enough for a long term contract seems a bit steep.

[TJJackson]

Assuming the franchise tag is placed as these two are predicting:

I will bet you a bazillion Bengalszone bucks that MJ does not get extended, plays out his 1 year under the franchise tender, and is gone after that.

I will bet another bazillion Bengalszone bucks (what the heck, make it a bazillion and a half) that under this same scenario the Flesh Zeppelin walks this offseason

[Wraith]

I'll take that bet....

Army, if I don't have that much in my account do I have to do dishes or something?

[TJJackson]

Confirmed: the sky IS falling

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-like-Mike-with-tag/eb23c6c6-7b88-42ce-a91c-63bea0468386

[HoosierCat]

I don't see them tagging MJ as a negative. He would make $11M guaranteed. That is a metric ass ton of money. Also, they are still working for a long term deal. So, how is this bad?

Because he ain't worth it? He should give half this coin to that chump tackle he abused in the DC game. They can't pay Joseph but BEEP BEEP BEEP here's the Brinks truck backing up after MJ had one good year! Bengals' mad personnel skilz strike again!

I like MJ but not at $11.175 million.

[HoosierCat]

Confirmed: the sky IS falling

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-like-Mike-with-tag/eb23c6c6-7b88-42ce-a91c-63bea0468386

The Bengals reportedly had $40 million to spend under the salary cap when free agency opens March 12, but now the estimated $11 million is gone with the Johnson tag...Also budgeted is an estimated $5 million for up to possibly 10 draft picks, $4 million for restricted players, as well as a $5 million reserve for injuries and incentive bonuses.

SSDY

[skyline]

I don't see them tagging MJ as a negative. He would make $11M guaranteed. That is a metric ass ton of money. Also, they are still working for a long term deal. So, how is this bad?

Because he ain't worth it? He should give half this coin to that chump tackle he abused in the DC game. They can't pay Joseph but BEEP BEEP BEEP here's the Brinks truck backing up after MJ had one good year! Bengals' mad personnel skilz strike again!

I like MJ but not at $11.175 million.

*shrug*

It keeps our biggest strength (d-line) entirely intact for at least one more year. If it's not worth it, or they can't come to a long-term deal, then they can let him walk next season with no lingering cap hits.

Besides, I think you're undervaluing MJ. It's not just about the sacks. Those are obviously great, but the fact that he plays over 80% of the defensive snaps, stays healthy, and is stout against the run all go into the equation as well.

[HoosierCat]

Besides, I think you're undervaluing MJ. It's not just about the sacks.

God, I hope not, because outside of that DC game MJ wasn't all that as a pass-rusher.

3. Michael Johnson

2012 Grade: +12.0

2012 Snaps: 923

Summary: With 13 sacks Michael Johnson is a common fan favorite on free agent shopping lists this offseason. With a display like what he put in against Washington back in Week 3 (+8.8) there must be fans of defensive end-needy teams chomping at the bit to sign him up. While it’s true that this was finally the season that we saw the ultra-athletic defensive end finally put together something of a better campaign, flipping his grade from a -12.0 to a +12.0 from 2011, there was still some startling inconsistency to ward teams off from overpaying for him.

Not least among these is that as impressive as Johnson’s display against Washington (a Redskins’ offensive line without Trent Williams from the 14th snap of the game) was he struggled as a pass rusher for much of the rest of the season. Without that one freak game — an outlier based upon the rest of his season — Johnson’s overall season grade becomes a +3.2 and his pass rush grade a -10.4 which is alarmingly close to his 2011 pass rush grade of -10.9.

His run defense took a step forward this season and it could be that Johnson is finally starting to figure out how to maximize his athleticism. However, that glaring lack of production outside of one game against Jordan Black should be raising red flags for fans and teams eager to sign him up when the new league year ticks around next month.

[cHaD711Johnson]

this means all that bluster - declared multiple times publicly, mind you - about really wanting to return to the Bengals was just bullcr@p, and that he wants more than he is worth to return.

Worth is determined by the market. DE should've been an option in the 1st regardless. I don't think that it's the end of the world, and I think that Andre Smith will still be a Bengal next year. Michael Johnson however, I'm not sure about for the 2014-2015 season. His replacement could easily be found in April.

[membengal]

Yay knee-jerk negativity. All is right with the world.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

According to Geoff Hobson they are only $40 million over the cap (apparently the LUMINA needed an oil change and that's where is other $14 million went) and $11 million just went to big Mike, they are apparently saving the rest for Andre which means Big Boi gonna get PAID! Minus the 5 Million for Draft Picks, 4 Million for Restricted FA (Jeromy Miles is apparently in for a BIG payday too), and 5 million for Injuries (still not sure what the hell this means) like $15 million per year (keep in mind that Andre was already the second highest paid RT in the NFL @ $8 million), I think that would be some sort of record......getting tired of Hobson reporting these ridiculous numbers it is insulting to those of us that can do basic math (that means those of us not from Kentucky).

LINK: http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-like-Mike-with-tag/eb23c6c6-7b88-42ce-a91c-63bea0468386

I think the hobsonization of the cap number every year is probably one of the primary reasons few if any of us read his stuff anymore

I never have. I appreciate some of the old school journalistic qualities he has, but he's obviously a publicity/internet control person, who makes really cheesy comparisons all the time, and is not made for today's medium (can't write for the web).

I can't remember the last time I read or checked the official Bengals' website.

[HoosierCat]

Yay knee-jerk negativity. All is right with the world.

I don't think there's anything knee-jerk going on. There's a poll a few threads down on the subject, which found little support for franchising MJ. If thy can reach a long-term deal that significantly lowers his number I think people will be much happier, but as has been noted, history isn't encouraging.

[TJJackson]

well now that it has been 24 hours (ish) since I posted, and my knee is done jerking, I still don't like it

1) Flesh Zeppelin is harder to replace than MJohnson

We really dont have another proven ORT, but we do have a pretty decent backup DE in Gilberry, and Still is all but begging for play time

2) Flesh Zeppelin pattern of pay for play works well with tag, MJ's is unknown

We have already seen the Flesh Zeppelin raise his level of play as it became time to get paid, ie now. The tag would extend that another year....he'd be expecting another big pay day in the 2014 offseason. We don't know what to expect from MJohnson

3) MJohnson's is not the best at his spot, while Flesh Zeppelin reportedly is

As pointed out earlier in this thread. There's a difference between wanting to keep him and wanting pay him like he's the best DL on this team....he isn't, he's 3rd at best on this D Line. Meanwhile, several reputable sources rate the Flesh Zeppelin as one of the best ORTs who played in 2012, with some even saying he was number 1.

4) Flesh Zeppelin would have cost a million or two less

I dont have the figures in front of me, but a million (or two) is still a big chunk of change

[HoosierCat]

Speaking of Moobs, reports today are that he is looking for a deal in the franchise range, $9 million/year. Arguably thats overpaying but if I'm the Bengals I go ahead and cut the deal.

[membengal]

If there is a way to initially see something f**kawful in anything the Bengals do...certain members of this board will immediately do that. Same as it ever was.

For my money, its one of the reasons this board is floundering. So much negativity. Always.