The Long View

[membengal]

So hard, sometimes, to sort through the emotion of games etc. Sometimes best, maybe, if folks don’t “vent”, as reflection often softens the immediate reaction. In any event, maybe a thread with some long view might be a nice balancer…

My expectations to start this year, per the predictions thread, were 6-10. So, at the outset, I note the Bengals have put that to the wrong. Why was I at that point? Thought a combination of injuries on line, step-back in second season at qb, harder schedule, and the franchise bent toward following up decent seasons with bad ones would repeat.

Instead, they are at 8-6, and at least have a puncher’s chance to make the playoffs. In doing so, they have shown, I would submit, fairly remarkable resilience. Every team has injuries, but this team has had to overcome some really nasty ones:

---Losing a starting guard and their starting center in pre-season was a nasty blow. They back-filled better than I could have guessed.

--Kirkpatrick has basically never been healthy at CB, depriving them of what should have been a key piece by mid-year. Add in losing Ghee and the other rookie (Prater) and they never had the depth at CB like they should have. That all happened painfully early as well.

--Just as they sorted out the 2nd receiver conumdrum, and Sanu looked to become the balancer to Green that this offense needs, he hurts himself and is done.

--At RB, have lost their “change-of-pace” back in Scott, who was never healthy, and then as soon as it appeared they got comfortable with Peerman, he gets hurt. Tack on the Pressley thing last night and it has been a season-long plague at that position too.

--Losing Thomas Howard at LB was a real blow. They were fortunate that Burfict picked it up, but this team would have been better quicker defensively with Howard.

On balance, that has been a nasty series of injuries at key positions to key players. I have to admit, stepping back a bit, that 8-6 at this point, given all of that, is pretty damn good work by the coaches. I will never be comfortable with Marvin. I hate his in-game coaching, his challenges and timeout wasting ways, the fact that he never seems to have this team ready to meet the moment. But, big picture, he has done a good job with this team given its youth and the injury challenges they have faced.

However this goes down, and I would expect it will involve them losing at least one of their next two to miss the playoffs, I have to conclude that there have been plenty of positives in the season, enough that I look forward to 2013 with a lot more legitimate optimism.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Nice job there Aaron.

[ArmyBengal]

I couldn't agree more. I think as Bengals fans, it has become easy to let emotions get the best of you.

I know i'm certainly not immune to that, but it was from the other aspect of thinking they would do better than worse.

I love how the young guys have really come on and I really do look forward to watching this team in the coming seasons and like you, I am nowhere comfortable with Marvin leading that charge. I would very much like to see a change made in that regard, but don't expect it.

While I don't think they are going to win these next two games, I am pleased to see them get back into a position where these last two games even matter. I was one of those who felt the season was done after the losing streak and i'm glad to see I was wrong. YES, I was wrong.

Here's to hoping I continue to be wrong with these last two games.

Nice write up Mem !!!

[HoosierCat]

I agree, this team has just been snake bit by injuries all year. And it's incredibly frustrating that some of the key ones didn't even happen in games but in practice. (Interestingly I just saw a story the other day where the Bears have cut back on practices due to injuries.) The Bengals' luck this year has routinely tested my non-belief in curses.

[Spor_tees]

Teams get snake bit by injuries every year and continue to win. Its part of the nature of the game, otherwise we would be watching robots. Remember when Tom Brady got hurt on the first drive of the game and was out for the season? Matt Cassell stepped in and helped them win 10 games that year and earn himself a mega contract. It's what well coached football teams do...

[membengal]

Right. Which i noted in discussing why their 8-6 record was commendable.

[COB]

One thing about this team is bothering me. I just don't think Andy Dalton is good enough to take this team anywhere in the post season. He misses too many open guys. I really wish they'd look to upgrade that position, but I think Mike will look as it as a positive - he's good enough to play, but not so good that he'll earn a mega contract. Maybe he'll develop some more and turn into a Brees, but right now I look at him as the 4th best quarterback in the AFC North. And that is no way to win the division.

[ArmyBengal]

I can see why you might think that COB, but most viewed him not as elite, but very solid.

He has progressed well over the past couple of seasons and think he can be that guy who provides more leadership and intelligence, but may never be a Brees, Manning, Brady type. Thing is, not many QB's can claim to be in that company anyway.

I think what we would see out of Dalton would be far greater if he had more than Green to throw to.

Make sure Sanu is going to be healthy or draft another guy for the #2.

Get a RB with speed to make people miss and can catch out of the backfield.

Make sure the o-line continues to improve.

Do that and Dalton is a probowl level QB again.

FWIW, I think he's better than Wedden, so he's the 3rd best in the Division.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Teams get snake bit by injuries every year and continue to win. Its part of the nature of the game, otherwise we would be watching robots. Remember when Tom Brady got hurt on the first drive of the game and was out for the season? Matt Cassell stepped in and helped them win 10 games that year and earn himself a mega contract. It's what well coached football teams do...

You've gone on and on about how poorly coached this team is led by good ol' emotionless Marvin, so are you contradicting yourself right now?

[walzav29]

I never understand the Dalton is only solid bit. He, Manning and Marino are the only 3 players to throw for at least 20 tds in the first 2 seasons. Ken Anderson didn't get the Bengals to playoffs until 3rd year, Boomer didn't get their until his 4th, and Carson didn't get them there until his 3rd season. His numbers are way better than the 4 qb's drafted ahead of him. I can't think of any reason other than his draft spot or his red hair. He is extremely young and has the chance to get the Bengals to back to back playoff seasons. Which hasn't happend in 30 years. He was a winner in high school ,and took TCU to an undefeated season. I think he's good, and will be great.

[ArmyBengal]

I never understand the Dalton is only solid bit. He, Manning and Marino are the only 3 players to throw for at least 20 tds in the first 2 seasons. Ken Anderson didn't get the Bengals to playoffs until 3rd year, Boomer didn't get their until his 4th, and Carson didn't get them there until his 3rd season. His numbers are way better than the 4 qb's drafted ahead of him. I can't think of any reason other than his draft spot or his red hair. He is extremely young and has the chance to get the Bengals to back to back playoff seasons. Which hasn't happend in 30 years. He was a winner in high school ,and took TCU to an undefeated season. I think he's good, and will be great.

I said he is solid. You said he good. We both believe he will get better. Not sure I see the difference.

There are many players that do great things statistically, but aren't great players.

Hell, some even win Super Bowls (Dilfer), but they need the team and if one is built, they will be successful.

While I love the fact Dalton is in that company, he still has room to improve. I think he will, some think he won't.

I just think they need to continue building as I mentioned before. I'm excited about this coming draft.

[Stripes]

On balance, that has been a nasty series of injuries at key positions to key players. I have to admit, stepping back a bit, that 8-6 at this point, given all of that, is pretty damn good work by the coaches. I will never be comfortable with Marvin. I hate his in-game coaching, his challenges and timeout wasting ways, the fact that he never seems to have this team ready to meet the moment. But, big picture, he has done a good job with this team given its youth and the injury challenges they have faced.

Agreed entirely. My frustration with Marvin's in-game decisions has finally boiled over after nearly 10 years, but he isn't without his strengths as a head coach (as it must be maintaining a .500 franchise which was the worst in the NFL before him, especially considering numerous unpredictable circumstances -- Pollack, Thurman, Henry, Irons, etc...). This team, this year has done an admirable job facing adversity, perhaps contrary to popular opinion, and I think that's a tribute to Marvin's talent as a motivator.

I continue to worry that Marvin's coaching methods are perfectly suited to the bad franchise seeking elevation to respectability, while perhaps being significantly less effective at higher levels of competition (against playoff teams and perennial powerhouses) due to his in-game problems.

[membengal]

CoB, love your stuff, but could not disagree with you more on dalton.

[kingwilly]

I think Dalton is good, not "great". He does miss open throws, does not sense pressure well and takes sacks when he could hae moved or thrown it away.

Can he get better? sure. Give him Sanu back and the progress with the others, and he will get better.

Comparing his stats to others from different era's is misleading. Those players did not hae the rules in place about hitting the QB, or pass interference that Dalton has. It' not a fair comparison.

It is tough to complain about one player, on a team that has exceded most expectations. Many of us (including me) we bitching about BJGE, and now he's had 5 really solid weeks.

I think Dalton gets interesting into next year. If his ceiling has been hit, we will see no further progress and that is when I will call for them to go get another QB.

[skyline]

Yes, Bengals fans need to learn to stop looking at Dalton through a microscope. Step back and take a look at the big picture. The guy has been fantastic.

He has a lot of room to grow, and should certainly be expected to. Right now, however, is not the time to start making plans for the next QB in line.

[glasgowbengal]

Someone really, really, really, needs to step up as the #2 wideout for this team. Hawk and Whalen are never going to be anymore than situational, slot type guys. If M Jones can't bring it over the next 2 games, we are well and truly f**ked!

[Spor_tees]

Right. Which i noted in discussing why their 8-6 record was commendable.

Not knocking your position, just saying it's part of the game. There isn't a guy behind the curtain injuring Bengal players, its just unfortunately part of the game. The Ravens had Suggs and Lewis both hurt, along with Reed playing injured, and are still first in the division.

[Spor_tees]

Yes, Bengals fans need to learn to stop looking at Dalton through a microscope. Step back and take a look at the big picture. The guy has been fantastic.

He has a lot of room to grow, and should certainly be expected to. Right now, however, is not the time to start making plans for the next QB in line.

Is it Dalton? Or is college football catching up to the pros? Wilson, Newton, Dalton, and Luck have made the jump and played well right away.

[Spor_tees]

Yes, Bengals fans need to learn to stop looking at Dalton through a microscope. Step back and take a look at the big picture. The guy has been fantastic.

He has a lot of room to grow, and should certainly be expected to. Right now, however, is not the time to start making plans for the next QB in line.

You can't in one breath say he shouldn't be critiqued, and in the next say he has room for improvement.

I have not said the Bengals need a new QB, but some of the mistakes Dalton is making are fundamental. Pocket presence and stepping up in the pocket as rushers are pushed past him is something he should know by now.

Not throwing the ball high over the middle and getting his receivers creamed is another.

These mistakes will and should have cost the Bengals wins, and making the playoffs. I'm just not sure these are things that can be taught at this time in Dalton's career.

[HoosierCat]

There's nothing wrong with Dalton that a healthy Mohamed Sanu can't cure.

[Spor_tees]

There's nothing wrong with Dalton that a healthy Mohamed Sanu can't cure.

Ask Green and Gresham how they feel about those high over the middle throws today.

[ArmyBengal]

Ask Dalton how he felt about his WR's and TE dropping most things thrown their way in the loss to Dallas.

I know what you are saying, but it goes both ways.

[HoosierCat]

To echo a comment mem made in IIRC the Dallas game thread, the Bengals just need guys to step up and make a play. They've been in position, but dropped balls, errant passes, missed blocks, missed picks, it's just one long string of blown opportunities. Nothing beats execution and the only thing the Bengals have been executing is themselves. Its not one guy, if it was it would be easy to fix. The answer is written on that old training camp t-shirt I have from a few years back: Do Your Job. That's all they need to do.

[membengal]

I cannot underscore enough how stunned I am. Or how happy I am with this run.

So stunned. So happy.

Cannot believe we are in the playoffs.

First time in franchise history with back to back playoff appearances when there was a full season played.

First time since 1981/82 for back to back playoffs in any event.

I so did not see this coming, either at the start of the year or certainly after their 4-game losing streak.

Absolutely a stunner.

Merry Christmas everyone.

[ArmyBengal]

Agree Mem.

Completely amazed by what this done was able to accomplish and that we find them going to the playoffs.

Completely amazed seeing as how I was ranting about them being lucky to win another game after the losing streak.

I really felt that way at the time and will give credit for them digging deep and making it happen.

Congrats to this very young Bengals team on just what they were able to overcome.

I think it's easy to overlook the accomplishment, but it's huge considering how young they are.

Merry Christmas indeed !!!