Our Roster!!

[ArmyBengal]

Pacman has to make it Ghee has had his chance and newman is not a right fit plus Prater is a longshot. dont forget pacman was a first rounder and still has talent and can be a great return man

I think the only reason Pac Man makes the team is as a continued back up at best and punt returns.

Can't forget that Clements, Hall, Newman, and Allen were also first rounders, so think that's a mute point.

Newman was brought in because he IS a fit and Zimmer knows exactly what he's getting out of him.

I can't say as i'm a big fan of his, but there is worth in his signing.

I don't think Pac Man goes anywhere and i'm hopeful a fully healthy offseason, OTA's, and camps will help.

He made some really poor decisions last season and his attitude sucked on the field.

Prater is also a teams beast and the coaches love that. He's a solid player.

This year might not be his, but I can't say as he would stick on the practice squad either.

Welcome to the board OCD.

[HoosierCat]

However, if Hall does not get back he might be the surprise cut, as crappy as that might seem.

Hall had more than $14 million guaranteed in his new deal last year, so cutting him would probably increase the cap hit. So I don't see that happening.

[ArmyBengal]

Hall is one of the players that would actually rank as a "surprise" cut.

Outside of him and a good handful of others, competition is going to be hot in camps this season.

And we get to watch it all happen locally this year !!!

[derekshank]

First off, Rivers cap # was $2.4M. Crocker's was $2.2M. Andre Smith's is $4.5M

Not sure why you brought up Rivers and Crocker. They are both already gone, so the results have already been factored into the current cap number (for the record, Crocker saved the Bengals just over $1.5 million in cap space, and Rivers saved the Bengals a mere $765,000. You can read the reasons for that here).

The interesting thing is that the outside observer would have thought that Rivers cap savings would have been over $3 million... but was actually less that $1 million. It would not be the least bit surprising if cutting Andre Smith would yield a similar result... as both are in the final year of a rookie contract, and the guaranteed bonuses from being a top 10 draft pick plays a big part in why cutting a player has such limited benefit to the cap (Rivers salary was 2.4M, but he was scheduled to get a 1.54M bonus... which made the cap benefit less than $1M. Smith has a $4.5M base... but is scheduled to get a $5M bonus. If I understand it correctly, that would result in a cap loss... not a savings).

Andre also turned a big corner this year. Marvin even stated that he became the player that they had hoped they had drafted. He hasn't done it long enough to warrant a top tier contract extension though, so the Bengals are kind of in a good situation. They will probably try to get him extended... but he hasn't earned franchise LT money. I could see a 2-3 year extension at around $6 million/year (I'm thinking include the current $9M he's making this year anyway... add $5M/year for a 3 year extension. Call it a 4 year $24 million contract. The Bengals get Andre for 3 extra years at a good price... and his agent gets to brag that he got Andre a fat contract. Everyone is happy).

Andre should be willing to accept that for two reasons. 1) He knows he hasn't lived up to the huge rookie contract he signed... so $6M/year is generous and 2) with his injury history probably won't want to risk playing the entire season on the final year of his deal. It benefits him to get a longer contract, and if he continues to improve, it benefits the Bengals by locking up a very good RT at a good price.

Not to mention that Andre is still getting a guaranteed $5 million bonus this year from that rookie contract. No way in hell Mike Brown pays him $5 million to go play somewhere else. Nope. He's a Bengal this year... and I think an extension is pretty likely.

I also agree with Hoosier. Hall isn't going anywhere.

[kingwilly]

First off, Rivers cap # was $2.4M. Crocker's was $2.2M. Andre Smith's is $4.5M

Not sure why you brought up Rivers and Crocker. They are both already gone, so the results have already been factored into the current cap number (for the record, Crocker saved the Bengals just over $1.5 million in cap space, and Rivers saved the Bengals a mere $765,000. You can read the reasons for that here).

The interesting thing is that the outside observer would have thought that Rivers cap savings would have been over $3 million... but was actually less that $1 million. It would not be the least bit surprising if cutting Andre Smith would yield a similar result... as both are in the final year of a rookie contract, and the guaranteed bonuses from being a top 10 draft pick plays a big part in why cutting a player has such limited benefit to the cap (Rivers salary was 2.4M, but he was scheduled to get a 1.54M bonus... which made the cap benefit less than $1M. Smith has a $4.5M base... but is scheduled to get a $5M bonus. If I understand it correctly, that would result in a cap loss... not a savings).

Andre also turned a big corner this year. Marvin even stated that he became the player that they had hoped they had drafted. He hasn't done it long enough to warrant a top tier contract extension though, so the Bengals are kind of in a good situation. They will probably try to get him extended... but he hasn't earned franchise LT money. I could see a 2-3 year extension at around $6 million/year (I'm thinking include the current $9M he's making this year anyway... add $5M/year for a 3 year extension. Call it a 4 year $24 million contract. The Bengals get Andre for 3 extra years at a good price... and his agent gets to brag that he got Andre a fat contract. Everyone is happy).

Andre should be willing to accept that for two reasons. 1) He knows he hasn't lived up to the huge rookie contract he signed... so $6M/year is generous and 2) with his injury history probably won't want to risk playing the entire season on the final year of his deal. It benefits him to get a longer contract, and if he continues to improve, it benefits the Bengals by locking up a very good RT at a good price.

Not to mention that Andre is still getting a guaranteed $5 million bonus this year from that rookie contract. No way in hell Mike Brown pays him $5 million to go play somewhere else. Nope. He's a Bengal this year... and I think an extension is pretty likely.

I also agree with Hoosier. Hall isn't going anywhere.

With the guaranteed money, the cap issues get ugly. I found a source that listed Rivers and the others cap# but you probably have a better source.

As for Fat Andre, if he has turned the corner then great. If he shows up all fat and floppy, then cut him. It is more than money, it's the example it sets.

I'm glad they dealt Rivers and cut Crocker. Not so long ago they would hold on to players because of where they drafted them (big daddy) or way past when they could play effectively ( Thornton). So, times they are a changing.

It's silly to worry about cap issues at all given how far below the cap they truly are. When they sign a vet FA wide out not named Owens or Coles, then we can discuss the cap.

[derekshank]

As for Fat Andre, if he has turned the corner then great. If he shows up all fat and floppy, then cut him. It is more than money, it's the example it sets.

Not so long ago they would hold on to players because of where they drafted them (big daddy) or way past when they could play effectively ( Thornton). So, times they are a changing.

Perhaps... but Mike Brown has always shown a willingness to cut players who were no longer producing (Willie Anderson and Rudi Johnson were both cut in 2008 and Levi Jones was cut in 2009). All of these moves were relatively unpopular at the time... because it seemed like the Bengals didn't have quality depth behind them, and the cap savings wasn't significant. However, when you look at how those 3 players fared with their future teams, it was obvious that they just didn't have it any more.

Andre might not have earned a $9M salary... but he certainly played well enough last year to avoid being cut for performance issues. Even if he does take a step back, I don't see him getting cut. They just won't give him a new contract.

The only reason I can think of to cut Andre at this point would be financially motivated... but cutting him would not improve the cap situation, nor would Mike Brown enjoy paying out a $5M bonus to a player who isn't on the team. I just can't see Andre Smith getting cut at this point.

[Kazkal]

In the past the Bengals have used some of the bigger DEs as pass rushing DTs. Last year, for instance, they carried only 3 DTs on the roster (Peko, Atkins, and Sims), but had 5 DEs (Dunlap, Johnson, Rucker, Fanene, and Geathers).

That's the interesting thing about them drafting 2 DTs. Do they really go from having only 3 DTs to carrying 5? I could see them parting ways with Sims. He's here on a one-year deal, and probably wasn't going to stay next year anyway. And Jamaal Anderson and Robert Geathers can both play DT on passing downs.

On a little Blurb it got mentioned that Still could end up playing alittle DE(Guessing on Goaline and 3rd & short)

[derekshank]

On a little Blurb it got mentioned that Still could end up playing alittle DE(Guessing on Goaline and 3rd & short)

Perhaps. I still think that Sims is in danger of being cut. Sims and Thompson are very similar players. And Still is good against the run as well... so there should be less concern about the run defense going to s**t if someone gets hurt. Between Atkins, Peko, Still, and Thompson, I don't see the need for Sims like I did a month ago.

Sims is also on a one-year deal, and was a long shot to stay here past 2012 anyway... so if Thompson pushes him in camp, it makes a lot more sense to part ways with Sims than it does to only carry 3 DEs.

[cHaD711Johnson]

Pacman has to make it Ghee has had his chance and newman is not a right fit plus Prater is a longshot. dont forget pacman was a first rounder and still has talent and can be a great return man

I think the only reason Pac Man makes the team is as a continued back up at best and punt returns.

Can't forget that Clements, Hall, Newman, and Allen were also first rounders, so think that's a mute point.

Newman was brought in because he IS a fit and Zimmer knows exactly what he's getting out of him.

I can't say as i'm a big fan of his, but there is worth in his signing.

I don't think Pac Man goes anywhere and i'm hopeful a fully healthy offseason, OTA's, and camps will help.

He made some really poor decisions last season and his attitude sucked on the field.

Prater is also a teams beast and the coaches love that. He's a solid player.

This year might not be his, but I can't say as he would stick on the practice squad either.

Welcome to the board OCD.

What did Pac Man do to show that his attitude sucked on the field?

Sims is DEFINITELY in danger of getting cut IMO. Health concerns and we brought in more talented guys than him.

[Kazkal]

Geathers has been less and less effective.... I think he is at the top of the list of probable cuts. Clements is needed. However, if Hall does not get back he might be the surprise cut, as crappy as that might seem. Another cut could be Fat Andre, should Collins be able to handle the right side next to Zeitler. Andre is due some big coin and there is not much drop off from him to Collins. Roland then backs up Collins and Whit.

It seems silly that the cap discussion cuts so deep.

Us the fans think he has been less effective but when ever you read something about Geathers from the Coaches it's positive...Like reason he doesn't have as many sacks is because they want him to focus on the run vs where he was a 3rd down end...I doubt Geathers gets cut but if he did I wouldn't complain because it would open up more money for the future...

[Kazkal]

As for Fat Andre, if he has turned the corner then great. If he shows up all fat and floppy, then cut him. It is more than money, it's the example it sets.

Erm he wasn't fat and floppy last season he got himself in to shape and it's already been reported this year he's still at a very healthy looking 330.

Andre also turned a big corner this year. Marvin even stated that he became the player that they had hoped they had drafted. He hasn't done it long enough to warrant a top tier contract extension though, so the Bengals are kind of in a good situation. They will probably try to get him extended... but he hasn't earned franchise LT money. I could see a 2-3 year extension at around $6 million/year (I'm thinking include the current $9M he's making this year anyway... add $5M/year for a 3 year extension. Call it a 4 year $24 million contract. The Bengals get Andre for 3 extra years at a good price... and his agent gets to brag that he got Andre a fat contract. Everyone is happy).

Andre should be willing to accept that for two reasons. 1) He knows he hasn't lived up to the huge rookie contract he signed... so $6M/year is generous and 2) with his injury history probably won't want to risk playing the entire season on the final year of his deal. It benefits him to get a longer contract, and if he continues to improve, it benefits the Bengals by locking up a very good RT at a good price.

Hope your right Derrick,Would hate to lose Big Dre after he just turned the switch on.

Sims is also on a one-year deal, and was a long shot to stay here past 2012 anyway... so if Thompson pushes him in camp, it makes a lot more sense to part ways with Sims than it does to only carry 3 DEs.

I can see them going 9 Dlinemen 5 tackles,We used 9 Defensive linemen last season and IMO good chance we see same thing this year because our 5th DT will be alot better then our 7th LB...But I wouldn't be shocked if Sims goes if they think Thompson will earn playing time over him.

[ArmyBengal]

What did Pac Man do to show that his attitude sucked on the field?

Through the last half of the season, whenever the ball came his way and thinks went poorly, he went looking for a call, bitching at the refs, or looking like TJ out there again always looking for a flag. Just go play and quit acting like a little girl. I think he's capable of that, but I just didn't see it last season.

[Kazkal]

Through the last half of the season, whenever the ball came his way and thinks went poorly, he went looking for a call, bitching at the ref

So he was acting like a WR ^.^

[ArmyBengal]

Through the last half of the season, whenever the ball came his way and thinks went poorly, he went looking for a call, bitching at the ref

So he was acting like a WR ^.^

Yeah, like I said, it was like watching TJ on the field all over again.

I hate seeing that crap. Let the refs call it and stop looking everytime the ball comes your way.

[derekshank]

Through the last half of the season, whenever the ball came his way and thinks went poorly, he went looking for a call, bitching at the ref

So he was acting like a WR ^.^

Yeah, like I said, it was like watching TJ on the field all over again.

I hate seeing that crap. Let the refs call it and stop looking everytime the ball comes your way.

I didn't notice that (at least any more than any other player). In fact, I thought Jones played hard for the Bengals. I was impressed with what appeared to be him putting the team first by being willing to play when he wasn't 100% because the team needed him to step up after Hall went down. You could tell he was playing hurt, and wasn't at his best... but he played hard, and I for one appreciated it.

That said, the old PacMan reared his head a bit after the miscommunication with Crocker in the playoff game. I don't care whose fault it was. The way Jones sulked and refused to talk to anyone afterwards is not what you like to see. I'm glad he cared enough that it made him angry, but the way he handled that anger showed a lot of immaturity. Hopefully he'll keep his s**t together this year... because the Bengals will probably need him to step up again at some point.

[cHaD711Johnson]

I didn't notice it either. I thought he played really hard and fought through some injuries to contribute. No problem with him showing disappointment in his own play on the field. I don't remember the whining to refs, but don't think that is a big deal either.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I was OK with Jones last year, didn't play great, but did decently. He had to take on a role he really wasn't good enough for, but held it down OK. They need the capable veteran depth.

And somebody to make it rain.

[ArmyBengal]

It's all good and I know he was hurt and working through things. I like that as well and I know he is looking forward to being 100% percent and competing against all the guys they brought in. I have also said that just like everyone else, you have to think he benefits from having OTA's, minicamp, and a full preseason, so i'm willing to see how it turns out.

If we get a healthy, motivated Pac Man, I will be pleased.

I just don't want to see the bitching and immaturity.

[Sea Ray]

The only reason I can think of to cut Andre at this point would be financially motivated... but cutting him would not improve the cap situation, nor would Mike Brown enjoy paying out a $5M bonus to a player who isn't on the team. I just can't see Andre Smith getting cut at this point.

I don't get why cutting Andre wouldn't save $9mill fom the cap? If he gets that much this yr and there's no further yrs to spread it into, why wouldn't it be a $9mill savings cap-wise?

[HoosierCat]

I don't get why cutting Andre wouldn't save $9mill fom the cap? If he gets that much this yr and there's no further yrs to spread it into, why wouldn't it be a $9mill savings cap-wise?

Because $5 million of Smith's cap hit is bonus proration. They take that hit whether he's on the roster or not.

[kingwilly]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that pacman was recovering from a broken neck. Full offseason to gt fast and strong, he could likely be a real asset.

[Stripes]

A. Jones's presence should allow the Bengals to part ways with Tate, since we have enough corners now that Jones wouldn't need to play nickel. Clements, Kirkpatrick, and Allen all figure to stand above him on the depth chart, so the return game would become Pac Man's primary purpose beyond just CB depth. I'd much rather have him than Tate, I know that.

[Wraith]

I have to think Tate is history. It will be interesting who else gets the boot.

[Kazkal]

A. Jones's presence should allow the Bengals to part ways with Tate, since we have enough corners now that Jones wouldn't need to play nickel. Clements, Kirkpatrick, and Allen all figure to stand above him on the depth chart, so the return game would become Pac Man's primary purpose beyond just CB depth. I'd much rather have him than Tate, I know that.

Also being he's gonna be 5th or 6th CB they can justify Him doing both Punts & Kicks without worrying about wearing him down to play D

[kingwilly]

I have to think Tate is history. It will be interesting who else gets the boot.

Sawthe signed ultra fast Kashif Moore from connecticut. If he can catch, they now have some serious speed. Green, Jones, Moore, Hawkins.... these guys have some speed.