Not piling on old Mike Brown

[Spor_tees]

I am going to take a stab at being the devil's advocate. So Let me get this right, if the Bengals have one winning season a decade, Mike Brown is all of a sudden no longer the problem, but instead the answer? Since 1991 when Paul Brown died, the Bengals have had 2 winning seasons, and have started this year 6-2. Now with a 6-2 record with a young group of core players, Mike Brown is the genius who set everything in motion? We are talking about the same Mike Brown that kept Chad a year too long, when he turned down essentially 2 first round draft picks from Washington, to instead get a couple late rounders from the Pats. Yes he hit a homerun on the Carson Palmer trade, but how do we know the pitch wasn't served on a silver platter by Hue Jackson. I mean if you give a blind man enough chances, eventually he can hit a pinata.

Yes I love what has happened this season, but as Bengals fans we enjoy this more because we are used to losing every year. The feeling we have now should be the feeling we should get when the Bengals win a playoff game, not just a regular season game. A 6-2 season is the norm for teams like the Steelers and Ravens, and anything less is a disappointment. I want the Bengals to get THERE, where we as fans can start each year with a sense of confidence even when things aren't 100% with the team. What's to say Mike Brown isn't the answer for this season's success? What's to say that this just happens to be that once a decade season where things fall into place? As long as Mike Brown is the owner/GM of the Cincinnati Bengals, I will never be confident of a winning season or making the playoffs.

[skyline]

I am going to take a stab at being the devil's advocate. So Let me get this right, if the Bengals have one winning season a decade, Mike Brown is all of a sudden no longer the problem, but instead the answer?

No. It's not simply the winning season that has everyone excited, but moreso the optimism that this team is being set up for long-term success.

Whether or not that's going to occur remains to be seen, but at the end of the day Mike Brown is responsible for the ray of hope that we're finally seeing. Sure, Brown's role in this may be nothing more than listening to his coaching staff, but the fact remains that he gets the final say-so and as of now his decisions (or lack therof) are actually showing dividends.

[Spor_tees]

I am going to take a stab at being the devil's advocate. So Let me get this right, if the Bengals have one winning season a decade, Mike Brown is all of a sudden no longer the problem, but instead the answer?

No. It's not simply the winning season that has everyone excited, but moreso the optimism that this team is being set up for long-term success.

Whether or not that's going to occur remains to be seen, but at the end of the day Mike Brown is responsible for the ray of hope that we're finally seeing. Sure, Brown's role in this may be nothing more than listening to his coaching staff, but the fact remains that he gets the final say-so and as of now his decisions (or lack therof) are actually showing dividends.

I just find it highly unlikely that Mike Brown can go from being, well...Mike Brown, and turn into Ozzie Newsome over night. I do believe that some people can change, but Mike Brown has shown no inkling of changing over the previous 19 years, and because of that I still can't accept this season as Mike Brown's doing. Maybe Marvin has had a great deal in saying what happens this year and during the past offseason, I don't know. If that is the case I think Marvin needs to make the move to the front office and bring in another head coach. If Marvin could devote his entire year to doing the things that has been done this year, imagine how things might be.

[Sea Ray]

I am going to take a stab at being the devil's advocate. So Let me get this right, if the Bengals have one winning season a decade, Mike Brown is all of a sudden no longer the problem, but instead the answer?

No. It's not simply the winning season that has everyone excited, but moreso the optimism that this team is being set up for long-term success.

Whether or not that's going to occur remains to be seen, but at the end of the day Mike Brown is responsible for the ray of hope that we're finally seeing. Sure, Brown's role in this may be nothing more than listening to his coaching staff, but the fact remains that he gets the final say-so and as of now his decisions (or lack therof) are actually showing dividends.

I just find it highly unlikely that Mike Brown can go from being, well...Mike Brown, and turn into Ozzie Newsome over night. I do believe that some people can change, but Mike Brown has shown no inkling of changing over the previous 19 years, and because of that I still can't accept this season as Mike Brown's doing. Maybe Marvin has had a great deal in saying what happens this year and during the past offseason, I don't know. If that is the case I think Marvin needs to make the move to the front office and bring in another head coach. If Marvin could devote his entire year to doing the things that has been done this year, imagine how things might be.

I can live with your opinion that this season can't be all Mike Brown's doing but with that in mind, you'd also have to acknowledge that the 2-14 season wasn't all his doing as well. Fair enough?

[Spor_tees]

SeaRay you have to take into account this is the first year of Marvin Lewis' new contract. This might have been the first year that the coaches got more say in what happens with the team. There are already reports that Lewis and Gruden had to talk Brown out of drafting Ryan Mallet and instead drafting Dalton. Could you imagine having a quarterback like Mallet running this offense? Mallet is a stretch the field vertical passer. Not only that but he is not a good leader and has attitude problems. He was a malcontent at Michigan who thought he should have been handed the starting QB job, and ended up transferring to Arkansas where he did nothing but clash with the coaches there. So given that one decision alone, if they would have followed Mike Brown's whim, do you think you would see a 6-2 team out on the field today? So see it however you like, but something changed drastically this year, and it wasn't Mike Brown.

[skyline]

You guys are going to love this. Mid-season executive of the year!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d823e4149/Midseason-awards?module=HP11_content_stream

[BengalszoneBilly]

You guys are going to love this. Mid-season executive of the year!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d823e4149/Midseason-awards?module=HP11_content_stream

Has to be his 1st. Blind squirrel, meet Mister Nut.

[redsbengalsbucks]

SeaRay you have to take into account this is the first year of Marvin Lewis' new contract. This might have been the first year that the coaches got more say in what happens with the team. There are already reports that Lewis and Gruden had to talk Brown out of drafting Ryan Mallet and instead drafting Dalton. Could you imagine having a quarterback like Mallet running this offense? Mallet is a stretch the field vertical passer. Not only that but he is not a good leader and has attitude problems. He was a malcontent at Michigan who thought he should have been handed the starting QB job, and ended up transferring to Arkansas where he did nothing but clash with the coaches there. So given that one decision alone, if they would have followed Mike Brown's whim, do you think you would see a 6-2 team out on the field today? So see it however you like, but something changed drastically this year, and it wasn't Mike Brown.

I watch most every Michigan game and Mallet should have been handed the starters job, but Rich Rod was a tool and wanted to change the team in one year instead of using what was here and making the correct adjustments over a few seasons. As a Buckeye fan I loved his tenure at the U of M.

I am very glad they decided on Dalton over Mallet. The only other QB I wanted was McElroy (late in the draft) and he hasnt seen the field yet.

[Sea Ray]

SeaRay you have to take into account this is the first year of Marvin Lewis' new contract. This might have been the first year that the coaches got more say in what happens with the team. There are already reports that Lewis and Gruden had to talk Brown out of drafting Ryan Mallet and instead drafting Dalton. Could you imagine having a quarterback like Mallet running this offense? Mallet is a stretch the field vertical passer. Not only that but he is not a good leader and has attitude problems. He was a malcontent at Michigan who thought he should have been handed the starting QB job, and ended up transferring to Arkansas where he did nothing but clash with the coaches there. So given that one decision alone, if they would have followed Mike Brown's whim, do you think you would see a 6-2 team out on the field today? So see it however you like, but something changed drastically this year, and it wasn't Mike Brown.

I understand but let's apply consistency here. In the past the mantra has been "it all gets back to Mike Brown". Therefore it stands to reason that everything 2011 also gets back to Mike Brown. Applying that now, you have to give Mike Brown credit for allowing Marvin more say in the draft or whatever positive happened in 2011. All I'm asking for is consistency.

[COB]

You guys are going to love this. Mid-season executive of the year!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d823e4149/Midseason-awards?module=HP11_content_stream

I don't believe some of this s**t happening right now.

[HairOnFire]

Shorter WDR: We surrender.

Longer WDR:

"Due to the suprising success of the Bengals we at WDR hereby surrender even though a half-empty stadium allows us to contimue claiming we're actually winning."

[HoosierCat]

My Q2 report card for Mike Brown.

[COB]

My Q2 report card for Mike Brown.

Did you really have sliders for Thanksgiving?

If yes, examine your life.

[HoosierCat]

Did you really have sliders for Thanksgiving?

Yeah, it was a while back. I had come into town for Thanksgiving and my mom and I were supposed to have dinner with my sister, her kids and her beau's family. But at the last minute mom decided to be a crankypuss and said she didn't want to go. So I didn't either; I wasn't about to leave her home alone on Thanksiving. But she didn't have any food at her place to speak of, and by the time she had bailed, all the grocery stores has buttoned up, so we ended up driving around looking for an open restaurant. The only place open? Yup: White Castle.

[HairOnFire]

Did you really have sliders for Thanksgiving?

Yeah, it was a while back. I had come into town for Thanksgiving and my mom and I were supposed to have dinner with my sister, her kids and her beau's family. But at the last minute mom decided to be a crankypuss and said she didn't want to go. So I didn't either; I wasn't about to leave her home alone on Thanksiving. But she didn't have any food at her place to speak of, and by the time she had bailed, all the grocery stores has buttoned up, so we ended up driving around looking for an open restaurant. The only place open? Yup: White Castle.

Wait what?

I think I've seen this movie. Isn't this the one where Susan Sarandon gives Santa a very special gift for Christmas?

BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned here but over the weekend Adam Schefter claimed his sources had confirmed the best trade offer the Bengals had recieved for Palmer, prior to the Raiders perfectly timed panic attack, was a single 3rd round pick.

[Sea Ray]

BTW, I haven't seen it mentioned here but over the weekend Adam Schefter claimed his sources had confirmed the best trade offer the Bengals had recieved for Palmer, prior to the Raiders perfectly timed panic attack, was a single 3rd round pick.

Can we really believe Schefter anymore? He once said the Bengals received an offer from the Seahawks of a 2nd and a 4th rd for Palmer:

/>http://twitter.com/#!/NFL_RealUpdates/statuses/126649666338160640

[HairOnFire]

Can we really believe Schefter anymore? He once said the Bengals received an offer from the Seahawks of a 2nd and a 4th rd for Palmer:

After he floated the rather silly rumor about the Bengals wanting Mallet, but not enough to draft him, it's kind of hard to say whether we should believe him or not. That said, I'm just passing along what I heard him say this weekend.

[Spor_tees]

Can we really believe Schefter anymore? He once said the Bengals received an offer from the Seahawks of a 2nd and a 4th rd for Palmer:

After he floated the rather silly rumor about the Bengals wanting Mallet, but not enough to draft him, it's kind of hard to say whether we should believe him or not. That said, I'm just passing along what I heard him say this weekend.

I didn't think it happened the way you said? I thought it was that Mike Brown wanted Mallet, but Marvin Lewis and Gruden knew all along who they wanted, and that was Dalton. So there really was no flip flopping other than on the part of Mike Brown, who finally took the advice of some of his coaches.

I really am starting to wonder if Marvin didn't approach Mike Brown during the negotiations of his new deal and say, "Look Mike, I know you are a proud stubborn man, so this is what I propose. Let me make the major personnel decisions, and if they work out you can take the credit for it, and if they don't work out, you can just say it was a move that I asked for." How else can you explain Mike Brown finally listing to someone other than the voice in his head after 19 years?

[Earendil]

I don't care how it happened, I'm just glad it did and hope that it continues.

[HairOnFire]

As I understand it Schefter claims Brown was interested in Mallet early on, but by the time the draft occured had shifted to Dalton due to input from his coaches. In short, the type of thing that happens again and again in every draft.

So why was it considered a rumor worth printing in the first place?

Perhaps so Schefter could better appeal to delightfully dips**tted Bengal fans who seemed adamant about denying Mike Brown the credit he deserves even after making a very popular choice. And by floating a stupid rumor about the Bengals wanting a player they actually showed no interest in Schefter has given every Bengal fan a great gift. That being, the opportunity to rave about a draft pick while still bitching about Mike Brown. And that's the kind of thing that goes over very big in the River City.

As for the trade rumors involving Palmer, as Searay points out....Schefter's latest claim, made just this weekend, flatly contradicts his own previous claims. Which I admit is par for the course when it comes to rumors, right? But it also points out how inconsistent Schefter has been when reporting Bengal related rumors, prompting SeaRay to wonder aloud if Bengal fans should trust Schefter.

[Spor_tees]

As I understand it Schefter claims Brown was interested in Mallet early on, but by the time the draft occured had shifted to Dalton due to input from his coaches. In short, the type of thing that happens again and again in every draft.

So why was it considered a rumor worth printing in the first place?

Perhaps so Schefter could better appeal to delightfully dips**tted Bengal fans who seemed adamant about denying Mike Brown the credit he deserves even after making a very popular choice. And by floating a stupid rumor about the Bengals wanting a player they actually showed no interest in Schefter has given every Bengal fan a great gift. That being, the opportunity to rave about a draft pick while still bitching about Mike Brown. And that's the kind of thing that goes over very big in the River City.

As for the trade rumors involving Palmer, as Searay points out....Schefter's latest claim, made just this weekend, flatly contradicts his own previous claims. Which I admit is par for the course when it comes to rumors, right? But it also points out how inconsistent Schefter has been when reporting Bengal related rumors, prompting SeaRay to wonder aloud if Bengal fans should trust Schefter.

You kill me how you will argue so hard to give Mike Brown credit when something good happens, when everything points towards someone else making the decision. How you can stare in the face of 19 years of poor decisions and call them meaningless after this one offseason. Credit needs to be given to where credit is due. Mike Brown simply giving in to his coaches demands is not worth giving credit for the entire decision. Who knows how many other decisions this offseason should be given to Marvin, Zimmer, or Gruden.

So if you want to continue to play the Kevin Bacon game to connect all the dots to end with giving Mike Brown credit for everything, then go right ahead.

[Stripes]

Hair didn't just start defending Mikey this season, and for good reason. Bengalia's perception of the man is mostly ludicrous.

[skyline]

As I understand it Schefter claims Brown was interested in Mallet early on, but by the time the draft occured had shifted to Dalton due to input from his coaches. In short, the type of thing that happens again and again in every draft.

So why was it considered a rumor worth printing in the first place?

Perhaps so Schefter could better appeal to delightfully dips**tted Bengal fans who seemed adamant about denying Mike Brown the credit he deserves even after making a very popular choice. And by floating a stupid rumor about the Bengals wanting a player they actually showed no interest in Schefter has given every Bengal fan a great gift. That being, the opportunity to rave about a draft pick while still bitching about Mike Brown. And that's the kind of thing that goes over very big in the River City.

As for the trade rumors involving Palmer, as Searay points out....Schefter's latest claim, made just this weekend, flatly contradicts his own previous claims. Which I admit is par for the course when it comes to rumors, right? But it also points out how inconsistent Schefter has been when reporting Bengal related rumors, prompting SeaRay to wonder aloud if Bengal fans should trust Schefter.

You kill me how you will argue so hard to give Mike Brown credit when something good happens, when everything points towards someone else making the decision. How you can stare in the face of 19 years of poor decisions and call them meaningless after this one offseason. Credit needs to be given to where credit is due. Mike Brown simply giving in to his coaches demands is not worth giving credit for the entire decision. Who knows how many other decisions this offseason should be given to Marvin, Zimmer, or Gruden.

So if you want to continue to play the Kevin Bacon game to connect all the dots to end with giving Mike Brown credit for everything, then go right ahead.

It's really pretty simple. Let's say that your assumption is correct adnd that Brown gave more power to the coaching staff which is why we're having our current run of success. Then, at some point, Mike Brown had a decision to make:

1) Keep doing his own thing and ignore the opinions of coaches.

or

2) Give them more power and say so over personnel decisions.

If Mike Brown decides on option 1, then we still suck. If Mike Brown decides on option 2, then we have success.

Either way, it all boils down to the decision of one man. Mike Brown.

Secondly, I'm not sure that ANYONE has said the past 19 years of poor decisions are meaningless. They're simply saying that you have to give credit where credit is due. If you want to bash Brown for the past 19 years, then that is fine. But if you're going to blast him for everything that happened in the past, then you have to be consistent in your argument and give him credit for what's happening now. No, he may not have become a football genius overnight, but regardless of what Mike Brown is or isn't, the fact remains that all decisions run through him. Like it or not.

[Spor_tees]

Skyline I think you are getting closer to the point. Don't give Mike Brown credit for the successful decisions that have been made this year in drafting, free agency, and etc., but do give him credit for FINALLY listening to other people and delegating some of the teams personnel decisions. I can live with that. Yes one decisions leads to the others, but the day to day decisions that are being made are much more difficult than one person giving into their stubbornness and admitting they aren't the best football related decisions maker. Let's all hope that this trend continues.

[skyline]

Skyline I think you are getting closer to the point. Don't give Mike Brown credit for the successful decisions that have been made this year in drafting, free agency, and etc., but do give him credit for FINALLY listening to other people and delegating some of the teams personnel decisions. I can live with that. Yes one decisions leads to the others, but the day to day decisions that are being made are much more difficult than one person giving into their stubbornness and admitting they aren't the best football related decisions maker. Let's all hope that this trend continues.

On the other hand, all we have to base this off of is speculation.

In the news conference following the Palmer trade, Lewis said that Mike Brown was far more patient than he would have been. In the end, we really have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. All we know for sure is that Brown is responsible one way or another.