Palmer will decide his own fate.... by way of Mike Brown

[agreen_112]

You're wrong on this one Army, Palmer is garbage. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at this point in his career. He's gun shy and falling apart.

If my source is correct, Palmer will be forced into retirement. The Bengals have already shopped him, we're not getting a 1st rnd pick. He'll either suit up for camp and compete for a postition, contribute, or he will be forced to retire. He has a contract to honor.

If he does go into retirement, what happens to his contract? Can we get money back?

I've never said this is what's GOING TO HAPPEN, only giving perspective on what could happen should they put him on the market and how other teams will view Palmer. There's no reason to think they couldn't get a first for him and to say he's garbage and couldn't hit the broad side of the barn is hate on your part and not based on anything other than that.

He's gun shy and falling apart, but when looking at his two seasons FOLLOWING his elbow injury you will find he's been in the top half of the league with passing yards and TD's. Explain that please. Would it surprise you to know that only 5 QB's threw for more passing yards than Palmer last year and not one was named, Rodgers, Brady, or Ryan ?? Would it also surprise you to know he's in the top 10 with passing TD's in the two seasons combined SINCE his injury ??

Again, I don't like his INT's or decision making, but no one here can account for what truly happens on the field.

You have nothing to back up your claims.

The only thing Mike Brown does by not being willing to get rid of malcontents who no longer wish to be here is continually set the team back. It's funny that people always want to look to the Patriots and other solid teams when it comes to how they draft, but conveniently fail to recognize those same teams get rid of guys on the downside, troubled, or no longer want to be there.

He had TO and Ocho, Shipley and Gresham, Caldwell and Simpson. The team was/is stacked with WR's. Drew Brees would probably set records with this group of talent. I don't feel like digging up numbers for the next hour but I beleive his QB rating has dipped VERY low within the last two to three seasons. TD's and Yards mean 0 when you're throwing pick 6's left and right. Palmer is garbage. That's my opinion, I'm sticking to it. When he gets the oppurtunity to play for another team and he takes them to the playoffs, then you can call me an idiot. But right now, my opinion makes more sense. He's trash.... Oh, and I'm not a hater. I tell it like it is.

[agreen_112]

The rumors floating around suggest the possibility, I obviously don't know how teams might value Palmer in trade. It doesn't make any difference though. A 7th round pick would be better than nothing.

I could NOT disagree more strongly.

The trade compensation does make a difference.....and I doubt very much the Bengals would bother responding to any trade offer that didn't include at least one very high draft pick. Less, and the Bengals are very well served by allowing Palmer to end his own career.

I agree. Why let him win. F*ck Palmer. Let him retire.

[ArmyBengal]

You're wrong on this one Army, Palmer is garbage. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at this point in his career. He's gun shy and falling apart.

If my source is correct, Palmer will be forced into retirement. The Bengals have already shopped him, we're not getting a 1st rnd pick. He'll either suit up for camp and compete for a postition, contribute, or he will be forced to retire. He has a contract to honor.

If he does go into retirement, what happens to his contract? Can we get money back?

I've never said this is what's GOING TO HAPPEN, only giving perspective on what could happen should they put him on the market and how other teams will view Palmer. There's no reason to think they couldn't get a first for him and to say he's garbage and couldn't hit the broad side of the barn is hate on your part and not based on anything other than that.

He's gun shy and falling apart, but when looking at his two seasons FOLLOWING his elbow injury you will find he's been in the top half of the league with passing yards and TD's. Explain that please. Would it surprise you to know that only 5 QB's threw for more passing yards than Palmer last year and not one was named, Rodgers, Brady, or Ryan ?? Would it also surprise you to know he's in the top 10 with passing TD's in the two seasons combined SINCE his injury ??

Again, I don't like his INT's or decision making, but no one here can account for what truly happens on the field.

You have nothing to back up your claims.

The only thing Mike Brown does by not being willing to get rid of malcontents who no longer wish to be here is continually set the team back. It's funny that people always want to look to the Patriots and other solid teams when it comes to how they draft, but conveniently fail to recognize those same teams get rid of guys on the downside, troubled, or no longer want to be there.

He had TO and Ocho, Shipley and Gresham, Caldwell and Simpson. The team was/is stacked with WR's. Drew Brees would probably set records with this group of talent. I don't feel like digging up numbers for the next hour but I beleive his QB rating has dipped VERY low within the last two to three seasons. TD's and Yards mean 0 when you're throwing pick 6's left and right. Palmer is garbage. That's my opinion, I'm sticking to it. When he gets the oppurtunity to play for another team and he takes them to the playoffs, then you can call me an idiot. But right now, my opinion makes more sense. He's trash.... Oh, and I'm not a hater. I tell it like it is.

Ok fine he had all those WR's, but you haven't answered the question I posed. Caldwell and Simpson saw VERY limited action, so including them is difficult in the mix. However, when they did see action (in place of Chad and TO) Palmer's numbers improved drastically. AGAIN, PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT.

You don't want to look up the numbers because they don't support your rant. His passer rating, minus his injured season has averaged 84.2. He was only better than that average twice prior to that. So you simply bypass 47 TD's in the past two seasons, chalk it up to garbage, ignore those numbers place him FIRMLY in the top 10 of the league, and claim your opinion makes more sense ?? Sorry Gizzle, but that's the reason you get so much sh*t on this board. I'm also not calling names, nor will I. That's not my thing.

Pick 6's aren't the sole responsibility of the QB either. I'm willing to say Palmer plays a part in that for sure, but you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge TO and Chad had a big part of that as well when they took things upon themselves to determine how things should be done. None of us are privy to that information either, so it's spitballing on either end.

You still aren't coming from a position of fact on your rant. Merely stating you dislike Palmer without giving anything more than, "He throws pick 6's", "He's garbage", "Can't hit the broadside of a barn". That's baseless.

I agree. Why let him win.

Wait, he's garbage, how would we let him win ??

[Kazkal]

If that ends up accurate, which I doubt, I'd very much hate the way Mike Brown is handling this specific trade demand. I'd much prefer a first round pick over the "satisfaction" of letting the golden boy tend to his garden every Sunday.

What makes you think we would get a 1st round for Palmer? The guy is falling apart. He's done. Finito. Over. He has a paper arm and would get absolultely destroyed in ANY QB challenge event. The only thing Palmer has going for himself is his brains. He's NOT a leader. He has 0 accuracy. His elbow and knee are likely to end his career with one more hit.

because talk of first/2nd in this years draft so if it's next years...It will be easier to get a high pick.

[Stripes]

and the Bengals are very well served by allowing Palmer to end his own career.

I'm certainly willing to listen to your reasoning -- what makes you say so? Is it about image, pride, or justice as it appears, or am I missing something?

[HairOnFire]

and the Bengals are very well served by allowing Palmer to end his own career.

I'm certainly willing to listen to your reasoning -- what makes you say so? Is it about image, pride, or justice as it appears, or am I missing something?

I could explain further but I'd only be repeating what I wrote in earlier threads. Suffice to say that several months ago I worked my way through all things Palmer, openly morphing from a fairly typical "let's trade Palmer for a 1st round pick" stance into the far less common but more fully realized stance of...."I admit he's not worth even close to what I'd need to get."

No disrespect intended, but arguing a 7th round pick is better than nothing is meaningless because a deal like that won't be considered. Nor should it be. So the better question asks what Palmer might really be worth, and once his value is determined, would you be willing to accept less simply because most people will feel something/anything is obviously better than nothing. And normally I'd agree with them.

But not this time.

[HoosierCat]

My source says

Yeah, I love how everyone and their mother is an "insider" this year...

[ct_bengal]

I think palmer began thinking of a way out in 2009 when the bengals became a run first team. Anyone remember his "i can't be successful in this type of offense" rant after the 2009 playoff loss. I think appeasing palmer is the reason they went back to throwing the ball, with mike brown certainly not opposing. This is the same team that swept the division so perhaps with a better suited qb(dalton) they aren't going to be that far off. As far as palmers value, yea he will garner a first, thats the only way he's going to find an out. i personally believe he can and will lead some NFC west team to the playoffs.

[Player3]

Kurt Warner was thought to have been washed up (twice) but came back to reach the playoffs with a new team. This has happen with several other QBs as well. I'm OK with Palmer being done here and yes, he has played poorly, but I certainly think that if he gets a chance with another team he could once again be successful.

[cincyhokie]

I think palmer began thinking of a way out in 2009 when the bengals became a run first team. Anyone remember his "i can't be successful in this type of offense" rant after the 2009 playoff loss. I think appeasing palmer is the reason they went back to throwing the ball, with mike brown certainly not opposing. This is the same team that swept the division so perhaps with a better suited qb(dalton) they aren't going to be that far off. As far as palmers value, yea he will garner a first, thats the only way he's going to find an out. i personally believe he can and will lead some NFC west team to the playoffs.

+1

[cHaD711Johnson]

If we can get a 1st for Carson than I'd do it. I'd consider a 2nd and 4th, a 2nd and 3rd is probably too much value for him. Having your agent put out in the media that you'll never play for the Bengals again isn't honorable. I'm sure playing football in Cincy for 100 mill is so terrible that he can't do it anymore. If he didn't want to be here then he shouldn't have signed that extension. He did so he should honor his contract. That's honorable. At this point I don't want to see him in stripes again anyway. He is gutless, not a leader, and a shell of him old self in terms of his confidence and his physical ability.

[Walrus]

I think palmer began thinking of a way out in 2009 when the bengals became a run first team. Anyone remember his "i can't be successful in this type of offense" rant after the 2009 playoff loss. I think appeasing palmer is the reason they went back to throwing the ball, with mike brown certainly not opposing. This is the same team that swept the division so perhaps with a better suited qb(dalton) they aren't going to be that far off. As far as palmers value, yea he will garner a first, thats the only way he's going to find an out. i personally believe he can and will lead some NFC west team to the playoffs.

+1

Good points, CT. That makes sense.

[membengal]

I think palmer began thinking of a way out in 2009 when the bengals became a run first team. Anyone remember his "i can't be successful in this type of offense" rant after the 2009 playoff loss. I think appeasing palmer is the reason they went back to throwing the ball, with mike brown certainly not opposing. This is the same team that swept the division so perhaps with a better suited qb(dalton) they aren't going to be that far off.

I love this thesis and will be attending any lectures you are giving.

[agreen_112]

You're wrong on this one Army, Palmer is garbage. He couldn't hit the broad side of a barn at this point in his career. He's gun shy and falling apart.

If my source is correct, Palmer will be forced into retirement. The Bengals have already shopped him, we're not getting a 1st rnd pick. He'll either suit up for camp and compete for a postition, contribute, or he will be forced to retire. He has a contract to honor.

If he does go into retirement, what happens to his contract? Can we get money back?

I've never said this is what's GOING TO HAPPEN, only giving perspective on what could happen should they put him on the market and how other teams will view Palmer. There's no reason to think they couldn't get a first for him and to say he's garbage and couldn't hit the broad side of the barn is hate on your part and not based on anything other than that.

He's gun shy and falling apart, but when looking at his two seasons FOLLOWING his elbow injury you will find he's been in the top half of the league with passing yards and TD's. Explain that please. Would it surprise you to know that only 5 QB's threw for more passing yards than Palmer last year and not one was named, Rodgers, Brady, or Ryan ?? Would it also surprise you to know he's in the top 10 with passing TD's in the two seasons combined SINCE his injury ??

Again, I don't like his INT's or decision making, but no one here can account for what truly happens on the field.

You have nothing to back up your claims.

The only thing Mike Brown does by not being willing to get rid of malcontents who no longer wish to be here is continually set the team back. It's funny that people always want to look to the Patriots and other solid teams when it comes to how they draft, but conveniently fail to recognize those same teams get rid of guys on the downside, troubled, or no longer want to be there.

He had TO and Ocho, Shipley and Gresham, Caldwell and Simpson. The team was/is stacked with WR's. Drew Brees would probably set records with this group of talent. I don't feel like digging up numbers for the next hour but I beleive his QB rating has dipped VERY low within the last two to three seasons. TD's and Yards mean 0 when you're throwing pick 6's left and right. Palmer is garbage. That's my opinion, I'm sticking to it. When he gets the oppurtunity to play for another team and he takes them to the playoffs, then you can call me an idiot. But right now, my opinion makes more sense. He's trash.... Oh, and I'm not a hater. I tell it like it is.

Ok fine he had all those WR's, but you haven't answered the question I posed. Caldwell and Simpson saw VERY limited action, so including them is difficult in the mix. However, when they did see action (in place of Chad and TO) Palmer's numbers improved drastically. AGAIN, PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT.

You don't want to look up the numbers because they don't support your rant. His passer rating, minus his injured season has averaged 84.2. He was only better than that average twice prior to that. So you simply bypass 47 TD's in the past two seasons, chalk it up to garbage, ignore those numbers place him FIRMLY in the top 10 of the league, and claim your opinion makes more sense ?? Sorry Gizzle, but that's the reason you get so much sh*t on this board. I'm also not calling names, nor will I. That's not my thing.

Pick 6's aren't the sole responsibility of the QB either. I'm willing to say Palmer plays a part in that for sure, but you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge TO and Chad had a big part of that as well when they took things upon themselves to determine how things should be done. None of us are privy to that information either, so it's spitballing on either end.

You still aren't coming from a position of fact on your rant. Merely stating you dislike Palmer without giving anything more than, "He throws pick 6's", "He's garbage", "Can't hit the broadside of a barn". That's baseless.

I agree. Why let him win.

Wait, he's garbage, how would we let him win ??

I'm saying F*ck him, let him retire. Why would MB trade him for a 5th-7th round pick when he has so much invested in Palmer? Palmer is has no honor. We've tried to shop him, nobody is willing to give up a 1st round draft pick... Trust me, MB isn't going to let a player "win" in this situation. I got respect for that.

I guess when you get past the numbers Army and you actually have a really good understanding of how the game is played it makes it easier to spot trash or talent. Palmer is another Elvis Gerback lol.

So what his numbers show he's in the Top 10. There's 31 LOSING teams a year. Palmer is a LOSER straight up. Get past the numbers dude. Watch the film. I don't care if he's throwing to Ocho or Simpson. He's inconsistant, that's all that proves in my opinion. Numbers aren't s**t, winning is everything in any sport. You play to win. Palmer is not a winner and I will bank that he does NOT go to another team after he comes out of retirement and lead them to a SB.

Palmer has a lot on his plate right now. He chose his fate. He should've talked it over with his agent before he went in this direction. I highly doubt he will retire though.

[agreen_112]

If that ends up accurate, which I doubt, I'd very much hate the way Mike Brown is handling this specific trade demand. I'd much prefer a first round pick over the "satisfaction" of letting the golden boy tend to his garden every Sunday.

What makes you think we would get a 1st round for Palmer? The guy is falling apart. He's done. Finito. Over. He has a paper arm and would get absolultely destroyed in ANY QB challenge event. The only thing Palmer has going for himself is his brains. He's NOT a leader. He has 0 accuracy. His elbow and knee are likely to end his career with one more hit.

because talk of first/2nd in this years draft so if it's next years...It will be easier to get a high pick.

That talk was wrong. Palmer isn't worth a 1st or 2nd. In a perfect world, I would love to see a huge trade for a defensive player.

[agreen_112]

My source says

Yeah, I love how everyone and their mother is an "insider" this year...

Ask around about my history HoosierCat, I've never lied or been wrong about other tips.

[agreen_112]

If we can get a 1st for Carson than I'd do it. I'd consider a 2nd and 4th, a 2nd and 3rd is probably too much value for him. Having your agent put out in the media that you'll never play for the Bengals again isn't honorable. I'm sure playing football in Cincy for 100 mill is so terrible that he can't do it anymore. If he didn't want to be here then he shouldn't have signed that extension. He did so he should honor his contract. That's honorable. At this point I don't want to see him in stripes again anyway. He is gutless, not a leader, and a shell of him old self in terms of his confidence and his physical ability.

Thank you... I know, he's done. We're running the WCO now and have the perfect young prospect to run it. Palmer is stiff as a freaking board. Elvis Gerback v 2.o

[derekshank]

There's 31 LOSING teams a year. Palmer is a LOSER straight up. Get past the numbers dude. Watch the film.

Ok... but based on that argument, Palmer is no more a loser than your boy Chad.

I don't really have a problem with you having strong opinions. But your continual claims that you know football when others don't isn't an argument. You never bring evidence to the table. You just spout off opinions... and when someone does bring evidence to refute your opinions, you never actually respond to it. You just say things like "Watch the film" but you never actually bring any facts to the table. Anyone can say s**t like that.

But my favorite thing is how you claim that Palmer has been "done" since '06... but you thought he deserved to be in the ProBowl in '09.

[TJJackson]

I've never lied or been wrong about other tips.

CANT

STOP

LAUGHING

[COB]

Trust me, MB isn't going to let a player "win" in this situation. I got respect for that.

I can't remember, but did you take Mike Brown's side when your main man Chad was the guy screaming for a trade? I suspect you'd take Chad's side, but I can't recall. For the record, you're right, Carson's skills have deteriorated badly. Also you're right that he's not a leader, if he were he would have knocked Chad's gold teeth down his throat about 20 times in the last 6 years.

[membengal]

Trust me, MB isn't going to let a player "win" in this situation. I got respect for that.

I can't remember, but did you take Mike Brown's side when your main man Chad was the guy screaming for a trade? I suspect you'd take Chad's side, but I can't recall. For the record, you're right, Carson's skills have deteriorated badly. Also you're right that he's not a leader, if he were he would have knocked Chad's gold teeth down his throat about 20 times in the last 6 years.

Like.

[TJJackson]

Maybe the bull will handle that bit of unfinished business for us

or Zbikowski

[ArmyBengal]

I'm saying F*ck him, let him retire. Why would MB trade him for a 5th-7th round pick when he has so much invested in Palmer? Palmer is has no honor. We've tried to shop him, nobody is willing to give up a 1st round draft pick... Trust me, MB isn't going to let a player "win" in this situation. I got respect for that.

I guess when you get past the numbers Army and you actually have a really good understanding of how the game is played it makes it easier to spot trash or talent. Palmer is another Elvis Gerback lol.

So what his numbers show he's in the Top 10. There's 31 LOSING teams a year. Palmer is a LOSER straight up. Get past the numbers dude. Watch the film. I don't care if he's throwing to Ocho or Simpson. He's inconsistant, that's all that proves in my opinion. Numbers aren't s**t, winning is everything in any sport. You play to win. Palmer is not a winner and I will bank that he does NOT go to another team after he comes out of retirement and lead them to a SB.

Palmer has a lot on his plate right now. He chose his fate. He should've talked it over with his agent before he went in this direction. I highly doubt he will retire though.

To start, I made a comment a few posts ago about how you aren't bringing anything to this conversation outside of opinion.

A baseless opinion that you haven't and more importantly CAN'T defend and a reason you get so much sh*t on this forum.

Before I even typed this response, you have other members giving you sh*t.

Now, I never claimed Palmer should be traded for a 5th, 7th, or whatever. I've claimed all along the Bengals could and should hold out for at least a first. I've given all the reason for that opinion and backed it up with his production. Production you have overlooked with every word you type. The other thought you have failed to consider is the defense Palmer has been working with. After having a top 5 defense in a season he led, YES LED, the team to an AFCN championship, the defense dropped off. THIS as well has an impact on the offense. No, it doesn't make him over and under throw a ball, but it is in fact a consideration.

Why is it you haven't bothered to answer any of the questions I've posed to support my opinion anyway ?? Not once.

Wow, winning is everything in any sport ?? No sh*t huh ??

You play to win ?? Some insightful sh*t right there.

You really do deserve all the sh*t you get on this forum...

[cincy9275]

My source says

Yeah, I love how everyone and their mother is an "insider" this year...

Ask around about my history HoosierCat, I've never lied or been wrong about other tips.

there is a radio show in col, oh 97.1 the fan. it is on espn radio from 3-6pm there are a couple of host on the show torg and the common man. these guys talk to former and current nfl players and coaches all the time. they even talk to guys like chris motrensen and adam schefter.

the funny thing is one of the host, the common man claims he knows for a fact there is a first rd pick on the table for carson. now these guys are a bit over the top and can be very irritating. they do not make false claims on players information and are very reliable with the information they do report. so who am i suppose to believe? you a guy on the fan forum, or guys that are connected to real nfl player and analyst?

[derekshank]

My source says

Yeah, I love how everyone and their mother is an "insider" this year...

Ask around about my history HoosierCat, I've never lied or been wrong about other tips.

there is a radio show in col, oh 97.1 the fan. it is on espn radio from 3-6pm there are a couple of host on the show torg and the common man. these guys talk to former and current nfl players and coaches all the time. they even talk to guys like chris motrensen and adam schefter.

the funny thing is one of the host, the common man claims he knows for a fact there is a first rd pick on the table for carson. now these guys are a bit over the top and can be very irritating. they do not make false claims on players information and are very reliable with the information they do report. so who am i suppose to believe? you a guy on the fan forum, or guys that are connected to real nfl player and analyst?

I love the Common Man & The Torg... and yes, they are very reliable.

Gizzle is dead wrong on what the Bengals could receive in compensation. That said, his initial claim was simply that the Bengals will not trade him. And while I don't think Gizzle is a reliable source... I have no problem believing MB will let Palmer retire.