Carson Palmer Thread

[derekshank]

I may have been wrong about Dalton.......But not about Mike Brown.....1 trade when a Team who came to you begging and offering you the world DOES NOT excuse what he has done to this franchise over the last 21 years.......

But that's just the thing. The current state of the team has nothing to do with this one trade.

The Bengals have drafted brilliantly over the last several years (just look at the roster). They've also made good use of FA to compliment the young talent they are building through.

Radio hosts nationwide are talking about the bright future of this team with a young talent filled defense, Andy Dalton and AJ Green... and now a litany of early picks for the next two years.

Who is responsible for all this young talent and bright future? Mike Brown.

[BengalPimp]

I may have been wrong about Dalton.......But not about Mike Brown.....1 trade when a Team who came to you begging and offering you the world DOES NOT excuse what he has done to this franchise over the last 21 years.......

But that's just the thing. The current state of the team has nothing to do with this one trade.

The Bengals have drafted brilliantly over the last several years (just look at the roster). They've also made good use of FA to compliment the young talent they are building through.

Radio hosts nationwide are talking about the bright future of this team with a young talent filled defense, Andy Dalton and AJ Green... and now a litany of early picks for the next two years.

Who is responsible for all this young talent and bright future? Mike Brown.

Marvin had a HUGE hand in drafting all of those players....NOT Mike Brown. Marvin has done a lot, and that's why when it came time to sign a new contract, Marvin said, not so fast, I want to do things my way, and got Mikey to give him more authority.....You don't give enough credit to Marvin.

[derekshank]

Post deleted.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Bengalszone Billy
Pushing forum rules too far.

[Spor_tees]

I may have been wrong about Dalton.......But not about Mike Brown.....1 trade when a Team who came to you begging and offering you the world DOES NOT excuse what he has done to this franchise over the last 21 years.......

But that's just the thing. The current state of the team has nothing to do with this one trade.

The Bengals have drafted brilliantly over the last several years (just look at the roster). They've also made good use of FA to compliment the young talent they are building through.

Radio hosts nationwide are talking about the bright future of this team with a young talent filled defense, Andy Dalton and AJ Green... and now a litany of early picks for the next two years.

Who is responsible for all this young talent and bright future? Mike Brown.

Marvin had a HUGE hand in drafting all of those players....NOT Mike Brown. Marvin has done a lot, and that's why when it came time to sign a new contract, Marvin said, not so fast, I want to do things my way, and got Mikey to give him more authority.....You don't give enough credit to Marvin.

You can't give Marvin too much credit.

I think it is funny how we as a fan base have been forced to lower our standards of a successful team as compared to other franchises in the NFL. Marvin is the longest tenured Head Coach in the NFL and has only been to the playoffs twice and hasn't won a playoff game. In 9 years he has a losing record overall and has produced how many Pro Bowl players? Off the top of my head I can name Palmer, Chad, Big Willie, and Graham. There might be more but not many. Some teams get that many guys in the same season.

Point being, don't give Marvin that much credit, he hasn't done a whole lot in his time being here. If he was the coach on one of the other 31 teams in the NFL, he would have probably been unemployed a LONG time ago. About the only thing you can really give him credit for is that he has spawned two other Head Coaches in the NFL in Hue Jackson and Leslie Frazier. But wait...even with those two guys he never saw their potential. He fired Frazier as his Defensive Coordinator, and never promoted Jackson above receiver's coach. So yeah, give credit where credit is due, but don't look at Marvin.

[BengalPimp]

Post deleted.

Edited October 20, 2011 by Bengalszone Billy
Pushing forum rules too far.

[BengalszoneBilly]

That'll be enough from both of you Derek and Pimp. Anymore of this BS and vacations will be issued.

If you want to be internet tough guys with each other, do it via PM's.

[gregstephens]

That'll be enough from both of you Derek and Pimp. Anymore of this BS and vacations will be issued.

If you want to be internet tough guys with each other, do it via PM's.

[HoosierCat]

I'm just amazed we got to 107 pages before this happened...

Everybody take 5.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'm just amazed we got to 107 pages before this happened...

Everybody take 5.

Please do guys. I really don't like having to step in like this.

[TJJackson]

I will say this

There was definitely luck involved - there's no way anyone (SoaG certainly included) could know that

The Raiders would be in contention for a division title just prior to the trade deadline

AND ALSO

The Raiders would lose their starting QB just prior to the trade deadline

AND ALSO

the Raiders deciding this is the year to go for it and therefore willing to pay dearly for a QB

Add to that the facts that Al Davis was out of the way just days before, and the coach in charge has a good personal relationship with both SoaG and Carson from past experience.......

I'd call this pretty close to if not the absolute textbox definition of a "perfect storm" of luck in terms of generating value in exchange for Carson

That said, SoaG did still have to push his petty and stubborn nature aside, and I give him credit for that brief shining moment of manning up for the team.

but

one brief shining moment does not stack up well against two decades plus of misery and incompetence in field-related matters.

so

he's still the blind squirrel as far as I am concerned, but I am damn glad he saw the light just this once.

and in conclusion....I'd really, really, REALLY like to see NE waive OchoNoShow and have him picked up off waivers by........yeah, you guessed it! :-)

[TJJackson]

Shank and Pimp - lets get you two guys into those fake rubber sumo suits and have you go at it

Loser buys a round of beers for all other BZers including the winner, and since Hair can't be there, we'll have OchoKilo ship him a, uh, hefty care package

[HoosierCat]

but

one brief shining moment does not stack up well against two decades plus of misery and incompetence in field-related matters.

I agree, but I don't think anyone is making the argument that this one deal means Mike is a good GM.

However, I will make the argument that this deal is one that a good GM makes.

So props to Mike today.

As for tomorrow, there will be more deals, more decisions, more choices. I pray that all of those are as good as the ones he made yesterday.

[BengalPimp]

.

[BengalPimp]

Shank and Pimp - lets get you two guys into those fake rubber sumo suits and have you go at it

Loser buys a round of beers for all other BZers including the winner, and since Hair can't be there, we'll have OchoKilo ship him a, uh, hefty care package

Count me in buddy.....

[TJJackson]

I will make the argument that this deal is one that a good GM makes.

So props to Mike today.

As for tomorrow, there will be more deals, more decisions, more choices. I pray that all of those are as good as the ones he made yesterday.

This + 1

(but the odds are not good for the future)

[derekshank]

That'll be enough from both of you Derek and Pimp. Anymore of this BS and vacations will be issued.

If you want to be internet tough guys with each other, do it via PM's.

I didn't get to read what Pimp wrote that you edited... but I'd like to point out that at least prior to that, nothing that was written was anything that anyone has been warned for before.

I think Mem, TJ, and Hair can all attest to taking things much further without threat of vacation... So what gives?

[BengalszoneBilly]

That'll be enough from both of you Derek and Pimp. Anymore of this BS and vacations will be issued.

If you want to be internet tough guys with each other, do it via PM's.

I didn't get to read what Pimp wrote that you edited... but I'd like to point out that at least prior to that, nothing that was written was anything that anyone has been warned for before.

I think Mem, TJ, and Hair can all attest to taking things much further without threat of vacation... So what gives?

I won't discuss it here. That's what PM's are for. Please use it.

[membengal]

Sry I missed that, but stand with derek on all the pts he so clearly made. Facts are salient, and leftover mike brown bitching is played. And the inability of folks to admit the positions they have taken are wrong in certain aspects is infuriating, even on a message board. Agenda driven posting is lazy and dishonest

[Kazkal]

@ ballbreakers comment about not promoting hue...Until this year he wasn't given any say on the offense.that it was Paul,alexanders & mikeys show outside of bringing in haynes

[membengal]

To expound....Mike Brown crushed this. When Palmer pulled his bitch move, on the eve of what was going to be a s**t off-season, he:

1. Chose continuity in retaining Marvin (I was against this)

2. Finally moved Brat out and brought in some very fresh thinking (all for this)

3. Was hit with the Palmer quitting in the face with next to no options to deal with it given the looming lockout

4. Calmly oversaw a draft where they selected the consensus best player in the draft rather than reaching for a qb, while patiently waiting for the qb prospect they had targeted from scouting and then selecting that qb.

5. Had the nerve to hand the team over to that same rookie qb on only training camp - relying on that qb to smart enough to pick up a brand new system to everyone installed by the rookie OC.

6. Withstood all calls to DEAL PALMER NOW FOR WHATEVER YOU CAN GET that were screamed from national media, Cincy talkshow hosts, dinks like Doc, and a whole bunch of idjits on message boards like this, and waited, since, as some like Derek and Hair (and others, ahem) could see, there was no point to deal in August for picks in April.

7. When the opportunity presented itself, thanks to his patience, he went with an offer that was beyond all bounds of reasonable, as the Bengals had their way with the Raiders, cementing their prospects to build on...

8. Completely unlooked for success from the rookie QB/WR and OC on a Bengals team that is somehow 4-2 with a coach that I, at least, thought shouldn't have come back.

All facts.

Mike Brown has f**kin' crushed this whole process since January.

So, yeah, patience wears thin from Derek, from me, and from a few others when posters carry on agendas that fly in the face of these facts. And when those agendas take over game threads, or are made in posts after wins that s**t on the team, etc., it makes this site less fun. I have gone to mostly reading to avoid blow-ups like was apparently deemed excessive last night, altho I confess surprise to that kind of moderation now.

If this site is to survive, is there an "ignore" function that can be employed? I have never looked for it, but perhaps I should. Otherwise, I am going to be hard pressed to suffer fools gladly anymore (to the extent I ever have been).

Mike Brown has flaws, no question. The entire holding onto CJ fiasco was crazy. I chafe at the foolishness he allowed to infect that locker-room from 2006 til about November last year. I don't understand why they don't do simple things like a Ring of Honor. The lost decade was unspeakable. I shall not speak of it.

But, in fairness, he has played this last 10 months like a GM master. I sure as f**k didn't think he could, but, there it is. I don't know where it goes from here this year, but if they get to 6 wins, they met my baseline, a baseline some said was already wildly optimistic. They seem to have found their QB, they have an offensive system that can grow with him, and s**tloads of picks in hand in the next two drafts. What's to complain about, seriously?

Now I have said my peace. And will do my best to be "civil" but if Pimp comes in here spewing more ignorant s**t rather than admitting being f**kin' wrong for month after month, I am going to f**kin' lose it.

(BTW, it IS possible to admit being wrong...Hoosier did so with class on this very thread with respect to how Mike Brown has handled things)

[kevnz]

Mike Brown has f**kin' crushed this whole process since January.

And you sir just crushed this thread. Best reply in here.

[Spor_tees]

So, yeah, patience wears thin from Derek, from me, and from a few others when posters carry on agendas that fly in the face of these facts. And when those agendas take over game threads, or are made in posts after wins that s**t on the team, etc., it makes this site less fun. I have gone to mostly reading to avoid blow-ups like was apparently deemed excessive last night, altho I confess surprise to that kind of moderation now.

If this site is to survive, is there an "ignore" function that can be employed? I have never looked for it, but perhaps I should. Otherwise, I am going to be hard pressed to suffer fools gladly anymore (to the extent I ever have been).

I was going to ignore this section of your post after reading the rest of a well thought out post but I just couldn't. You can't continue to force things down someone else's throats about how they are wrong in pointing out what they are doing when you go and do it yourself. Yes I would make posts about what the Bengals needed to improve on week to week after victories OR loses because that is what provides discussion, and it is what you expect of a young team. I don't get on here and say things like "The Bengals SUCK!," after they win a game, I just point out how they lacked to play well in certain situations, lacked running certain formations, or didn't do well using certain techniques, and my idea of how they can fix the problem. How that can be viewed as negative I don't know.

Now TDB started a Bye week thread where he listed problems and his ideas for solutions, after the Bengals started the season 4-2. Listed in that thread is not only problems I have mentioned before, but a post made by you. So how can you come out and lambast me for doing something that you then take part in yourself?

[derekshank]

I have gone to mostly reading to avoid blow-ups like was apparently deemed excessive last night, altho I confess surprise to that kind of moderation now.

Agreed.

I voiced my feelings to the Mods about the fact that I had not been treated fairly... so there's no reason to rehash it.

But I would like to point out that I've been a member here for 6 1/2 years, with nearly 6,000 posts. I have never had a post deleted and I have never been warned. If I crossed a line last night... it's a line that has been crossed hundreds of times by others (without penalty) during my time here at the zone. So frankly, I'm pissed.

I'm with you Mem. You've gone mostly to reading? I'm with you. I'm done posting.

[Sea Ray]

To expound....Mike Brown crushed this. When Palmer pulled his bitch move, on the eve of what was going to be a s**t off-season, he:

1. Chose continuity in retaining Marvin (I was against this)

Just to set the timeline, Carson was still on board up until Marvin was re-hired. Remember Carson's last day in the locker room was the day of that dreaded press comference where MB and Marvin announced "no changes". Carson was asked for his thoughts on the re-hiring and he replied "no comment". That was the first sign we had that something was up. Then it was a couple weeks later, during the Super Bowl, that we saw the trailer at the bottom of the screen that Carson was threatening to retire.

So I would say that the chronology should read: Marvin rehired then Carson pulls his bitch move

[membengal]

So, yeah, patience wears thin from Derek, from me, and from a few others when posters carry on agendas that fly in the face of these facts. And when those agendas take over game threads, or are made in posts after wins that s**t on the team, etc., it makes this site less fun. I have gone to mostly reading to avoid blow-ups like was apparently deemed excessive last night, altho I confess surprise to that kind of moderation now.

If this site is to survive, is there an "ignore" function that can be employed? I have never looked for it, but perhaps I should. Otherwise, I am going to be hard pressed to suffer fools gladly anymore (to the extent I ever have been).

I was going to ignore this section of your post after reading the rest of a well thought out post but I just couldn't. You can't continue to force things down someone else's throats about how they are wrong in pointing out what they are doing when you go and do it yourself. Yes I would make posts about what the Bengals needed to improve on week to week after victories OR loses because that is what provides discussion, and it is what you expect of a young team. I don't get on here and say things like "The Bengals SUCK!," after they win a game, I just point out how they lacked to play well in certain situations, lacked running certain formations, or didn't do well using certain techniques, and my idea of how they can fix the problem. How that can be viewed as negative I don't know.

Now TDB started a Bye week thread where he listed problems and his ideas for solutions, after the Bengals started the season 4-2. Listed in that thread is not only problems I have mentioned before, but a post made by you. So how can you come out and lambast me for doing something that you then take part in yourself?

Funny, I didn't mention you by name or call you out specifically, but since you opened the door...

If you can't see the qualititative difference between TDB's thread and the ones you have started, you are beyond reasoning with.

As for Derek's post, I join him in sitting out.