Carson Palmer Thread

[HairOnFire]

You don't like the line Mike Brown has drawn... and it's fine for you to disagree with the proximity of the line, but silly to think that moving it would solve the problem.

Of course it wouldn't solve the problem. Players will always complain that their underpaid, or don't want to be franchised, or what to "play for a winner" or whatever. But it's already been pointed out that the vast majority of complaints we hear falls into that "all-beef franks" category. Resolving that wouldn't be either difficult or horribly expensive, and would work to reduce the level of disgruntlement to that typical of most NFL teams.

Trivial complaints deserve trivial consideration.

[derekshank]

But it's already been pointed out that the vast majority of complaints we hear falls into that "all-beef franks" category.

Bulls**t.

Dillon complained that he didn't get enough carries.

Pickens complained that Coslett was rehired.

Dan Wilkinson complained that about not getting the franchise tag (and that Cincinnati was a racist city).

Takeo Spikes complained that the coaching staff wasn't given enough control.

Chad complained he outplayed his contract.

None of those guys mentioned Christmas parties and free food. These trivial complaints are far from the "vast majority" of the complaints we hear.

Every entitled douchebag will find something different to complain about. Carson Palmer just happens to be the biggest p***y of the bunch.

[HoosierCat]

But it's already been pointed out that the vast majority of complaints we hear falls into that "all-beef franks" category.

Bulls**t.

Nice selective editing. Let's put the first part of what I said back in.

Players will always complain that their underpaid, or don't want to be franchised, or what to "play for a winner" or whatever.

What I'm talking about here is the complaints you don't hear elsewhere about how the organization is run, not about who gets how many carries or who gets franchised or given more money. I spent 20 years living on the East Coast drenched in Giants and Jets news on a daily basis and all that same drama went on there. What I never read were complaints about food or lousy weight rooms or the lack of locker stools or any of the "trivia" you hear about from Bengals players. If you don't think that matters, fine. But in that case, I think you're wrong.

[derekshank]

Nice selective editing.

It's not selective editing. It is selective quoting. And you directly stated that "the vast majority of complaints we hear fall into the 'all-beef franks' category." And that statement is bulls**t. The only one bitching about the free food is Palmer.

What I'm talking about here is the complaints you don't hear elsewhere about how the organization is run, not about who gets how many carries or who gets franchised or given more money.

I call bulls**t on this as well. Dan Snyder once hired 5 bodyguards because the locker-room was so mad at him about taking away player tickets or something.

There are plenty of players who bitch about the GM of the team they play for. Likewise, there are plenty of players who bitch about the ownership of the team they play for. Mike Brown serves double duty... so he's going to get more criticism. That's his choice. But the fact that he gets double the criticism doesn't lend credibility to the complaint itself.

Any and all bitching about the quality of free food and Christmas parties should be promptly ignored by fans. It does nothing but inform us as to how much of a p***y Palmer really is.

When you admit that Dillon's complaint about carries, and Big Daddy's complaint about the franchise tag, and Chad's complaint about money are common problems to all NFL teams, you start to see that Palmer is the one that stands out... not Mike Brown.

[HoosierCat]

Any and all bitching about the quality of free food and Christmas parties should be promptly ignored by fans.

Sure. Like I said before, what we think about it is immaterial. It's the fact that it's ignored by management that's the problem.

[derekshank]

Any and all bitching about the quality of free food and Christmas parties should be promptly ignored by fans.

Sure. Like I said before, what we think about it is immaterial. It's the fact that it's ignored by management that's the problem.

How big is the problem, really? Because it seems to me that this particular problem begins and ends with Carson Palmer. And it's not hard to argue that his absence is a big fat positive for the team.

[Spor_tees]

As a society today most of us are programmed to always want more. I mean if you stop wanting more and become stagnant you cease to grow as an individual and in fact start to regress right? Simply put we have become a society of excess. Give me a million dollars and I am going to want two million. Give me a Ferrari and I am going to want a Hummer too. These players are just living out the lives we have, but just on another level.

A big part of this is a sense of one-up-man-ship. These guys are always competing to out do the other. It's bred into them. It's what makes them the athletes they are. If they didn't have that sense of competition they probably wouldn't be professional athletes. Their feeling of competition just extends beyond the playing field and into their personal lives. If so-and-so got a new jet, then so-and-so is going to find out and want a new jet with a jacuzzi in it, and so forth. Even as just sports fans I know some of you can relate to this on a different level. If your neighbor gets a real nice looking grill, don't you take a second look at the grills the next time you are at the store and wonder what it would be like to have a nicer grill than his?

The only thing that sets these guys apart from us, is that they seem to forget, if is wasn't for all us average Joe fans, they wouldn't be getting the millions of dollars a year they get to play a GAME. With the way things are nowadays with media, commercials, etc. There is no going back to when players could relate to the fans. That train has already left town and there is no turning back. Unfortunately I see a future where professional sports ruins itself to the point of Sodom and Gommorrah. Their lives of excess will lead to their own destruction.

[derekshank]

There is no going back to when players could relate to the fans. That train has already left town and there is no turning back.

I agree. I just don't care. I don't want or need Palmer to be able to relate to me.

But Mike Brown can't relate to me either, right? I mean, Mikey is richer than any player who will ever step on the field... so, I can still make a judgement. And here is what I see:

Mike Brown made Palmer the highest paid player in the NFL. He continued to build around Palmer as a franchise player, despite repeated injuries and considerably lower production than his pay-grade. And as recent as last year, Brown signed free agents at Palmer's request.

Despite all of this, I am told that Mike Brown didn't do right by Palmer because of things that are universally agreed upon, by fans and players alike, as being "trivial" matters.

F*ck that... and F*ck Carson Palmer.

[bwillycuse]

Any and all bitching about the quality of free food and Christmas parties should be promptly ignored by fans.

Sure. Like I said before, what we think about it is immaterial. It's the fact that it's ignored by management that's the problem.

How big is the problem, really? Because it seems to me that this particular problem begins and ends with Carson Palmer. And it's not hard to argue that his absence is a big fat positive for the team.

Its difficult for anyone to grasp that idea that isn't as close to the situation as us fans are. We kind of understand the bad chemistry this team had. Others just look at numbers.

Heck the Patriots are brilliant for bringing Chad in - according to outsiders. We are happy he is gone.

Palmer burned his bridge here and we are seeing a different Bengals team. A positive minded team that only has upward to go. If they play hard, i don't envision any booing no matter how bad they are.

Be on board or get off.

[Spor_tees]

There is no going back to when players could relate to the fans. That train has already left town and there is no turning back.

I agree. I just don't care. I don't want or need Palmer to be able to relate to me.

But Mike Brown can't relate to me either, right? So, I can still make a judgement. And here is what I see:

Mike Brown made Palmer the highest paid player in the NFL. He continued to build around Palmer as a franchise player, despite repeated injuries and considerably lower production than his pay-grade. And as recent as last year, Brown signed free agents at Palmer's request.

Despite all of this, I am told that Mike Brown didn't do right by Palmer because of things that are universally agreed upon, by fans and players alike, as being "trivial" matters.

F*ck that... and f**k Carson Palmer.

I think I kinda missed a point in my rant. Just because an environment breeds certain actions, it doesn't make those actions right. I guess a good example would be football itself. If you played football as a kid, the coaches always told you to hit the opponent as hard as you could. If you were on defense you were supposed to hit the guy with the ball so hard you gave him snot bubbles. Yet you were supposed to do this within the rules of the game? You are taught to hit the other guy as hard as you could...but not too hard to draw a penalty?

Point is, we put these guys on a pedestal, the owners pay them millions of dollars to play a game, and yet we expect them to act like ordinary citizens on the street. I'm saying it isn't right that these guys get some kind of god complex out of the situation, I'm just saying we as fans are partly at fault indirectly. Every person that bought a Carson Palmer jersey, or paid for his autograph,or so on, put money in Carson's pocket and helped to make him the spoiled brat he is today. That's all...

[derekshank]

Every person that bought a Carson Palmer jersey, or paid for his autograph,or so on, put money in Carson's pocket and helped to make him the spoiled brat he is today. That's all...

I'm still not sure I agree. Money itself doesn't make a person spoiled.

Warren Buffet is currently the 3rd wealthiest person on the planet... but he lives in a house in Omaha that he bought for $31,500. Money doesn't spoil people. Enablers spoil people.

That said, I don't expect rich people to live within the same means that I live. But I do expect them to be reasonable human beings. The vast majority of NFL players abide by this code. Carson Palmer doesn't, so I will not accept that Mike Brown should have continued to enable him by catering to his every whim.

[HairOnFire]

I spent 20 years living on the East Coast drenched in Giants and Jets news on a daily basis and all that same drama went on there. What I never read were complaints about food or lousy weight rooms or the lack of locker stools or any of the "trivia" you hear about from Bengals players. If you don't think that matters, fine. But in that case, I think you're wrong.

Fair enough. So lets ignore the debate about how much it matters and agree for a moment that these kinds of trivial frustrations amount to something. And lets agree that Mike Brown SHOULD address petty player complaints simply because players want to feel like their complaints, no matter how trivial, are being heard, considered, and acted upon. But just for giggles lets say Mike Brown simply doesn't do enough. Let's say his attempts to appease comes up short in the eyes of unimportant players like Caleb Miller as well as team stars like Palmer and Chad.

So what happens now?

Is a failure to adequately address a mountain of trivial things reason enough for a player like Palmer to abandon his obligations and commitments? Is it enough to justify Chad's deliberate and calculated campaign of douchebaggery? Are player frustrations over the taste of free food considered a legit excuse for clock punching? How seriously should anyone take a players complaint about the lack of stools in the lockerroom when stools can be found costing less than $20?

Granted, if Caleb Miller were here right now he'd argue it should be Mike Brown's money that's used to buy the stool. But again, let's say that doesn't happen. Does that justify a poorer effort from Caleb Miller? Does it justify unprofessional behavior from Chad? Is it reason enough to explain Carson Palmer's unreasonable demands?

I can't help it. Time and time again I hear or read a players complaint and my first reaction almost always boils down to STFU. Perhaps it's the boss in me. Perhaps it's because I own my own business and know all too well the feeling that no matter what I do I not only won't be able to make some of my employees happy, but some will assume the worst of me simply because of our respective roles. But if I had to guess the biggest reason why I react to player complaints the way I do it's mostly due to complaint itself being trivial or petty.

[kingwilly]

I spent 20 years living on the East Coast drenched in Giants and Jets news on a daily basis and all that same drama went on there. What I never read were complaints about food or lousy weight rooms or the lack of locker stools or any of the "trivia" you hear about from Bengals players. If you don't think that matters, fine. But in that case, I think you're wrong.

Fair enough. So lets ignore the debate about how much it matters and agree for a moment that these kinds of trivial frustrations amount to something. And lets agree that Mike Brown SHOULD address petty player complaints simply because players want to feel like their complaints, no matter how trivial, are being heard, considered, and acted upon. But just for giggles lets say Mike Brown simply doesn't do enough. Let's say his attempts to appease comes up short in the eyes of unimportant players like Caleb Miller as well as team stars like Palmer and Chad.

So what happens now?

Is a failure to adequately address a mountain of trivial things reason enough for a player like Palmer to abandon his obligations and commitments? Is it enough to justify Chad's deliberate and calculated campaign of douchebaggery? Are player frustrations over the taste of free food considered a legit excuse for clock punching? How seriously should anyone take a players complaint about the lack of stools in the lockerroom when stools can be found costing less than $20?

Granted, if Caleb Miller were here right now he'd argue it should be Mike Brown's money that's used to buy the stool. But again, let's say that doesn't happen. Does that justify a poorer effort from Caleb Miller? Does it justify unprofessional behavior from Chad? Is it reason enough to explain Carson Palmer's unreasonable demands?

I can't help it. Time and time again I hear or read a players complaint and my first reaction almost always boils down to STFU. Perhaps it's the boss in me. Perhaps it's because I own my own business and know all too well the feeling that no matter what I do I not only won't be able to make some of my employees happy, but some will assume the worst of me simply because of our respective roles. But if I had to guess the biggest reason why I react to player complaints the way I do it's mostly due to complaint itself being trivial or petty.

HoF, I think one of the issues is in the comparison of owning/working for an NFL team and owning/working in a more standard business environment. It's just not that comparable.

[Sea Ray]

HoF, I think one of the issues is in the comparison of owning/working for an NFL team and owning/working in a more standard business environment. It's just not that comparable.

That's debatable but it misses the point. Are meals/towels enough to justify a player walking out on the team?

[Spor_tees]

HoF, I think one of the issues is in the comparison of owning/working for an NFL team and owning/working in a more standard business environment. It's just not that comparable.

That's debatable but it misses the point. Are meals/towels enough to justify a player walking out on the team?

How could any other team embrace Palmer after knowing he turned his back on 52 teammates, an entire organization, and the Bengal's fan base? How could anyone trust a guy like that?

[HairOnFire]

HoF, I think one of the issues is in the comparison of owning/working for an NFL team and owning/working in a more standard business environment. It's just not that comparable.

Why?

Should I take Caleb Miller's trivial ravings more seriously simply because his salary pays him hundred of thousands of dollars per year?

As a Bengal fan I'm much more embarrassed by a Bengal player complaigning about the taste of free food than I am by the larger claim that the food was better at the University of Arkansas. Seriously, how easily distracted are these guys? Is there anything too trivial for them to complain about?

And to Hoosier's point about never hearing thses types of complaints from New York teams, as Caleb Miller might say....that's the whole point.

New York Giant players aren't pu**ies. New York Jet players aren't this easily distracted. Players from those teams seem to have a much firmer grasp upon what is truly important and what isn't. Thus, those players aren't considered losers as often as teams that lose focus over trivial things.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm sick of stuff like this, and I'm tired of players like Caleb Miller getting a fan pass simply because there's a bigger punching bag in the room. As a fanbase we should be blasting away at Caleb Miller until he crawls back to Arkansas on his belly.

Or better yet, we should find out where he lives and toss our trash on his lawn.

[HoosierCat]

Is a failure to adequately address a mountain of trivial things reason enough for a player like Palmer to abandon his obligations and commitments? Is it enough to justify Chad's deliberate and calculated campaign of douchebaggery? Are player frustrations over the taste of free food considered a legit excuse for clock punching?

No, I don't think that the organization's failure to address the trivial issues justifies, or provides a legitimate excuse for, poor behavior. But I do think that failure helps explain the ongoing toxicity that surrounds the team.

[HairOnFire]

Is a failure to adequately address a mountain of trivial things reason enough for a player like Palmer to abandon his obligations and commitments? Is it enough to justify Chad's deliberate and calculated campaign of douchebaggery? Are player frustrations over the taste of free food considered a legit excuse for clock punching?

No, I don't think that the organization's failure to address the trivial issues justifies, or provides a legitimate excuse for, poor behavior. But I do think that failure helps explain the ongoing toxicity that surrounds the team.

It's all well and good to point out how the well has been poisoned, but shouldn't we ask ourselves who is most responsible?

And to that end, you've just answered the question.

[Spor_tees]

Is a failure to adequately address a mountain of trivial things reason enough for a player like Palmer to abandon his obligations and commitments? Is it enough to justify Chad's deliberate and calculated campaign of douchebaggery? Are player frustrations over the taste of free food considered a legit excuse for clock punching?

No, I don't think that the organization's failure to address the trivial issues justifies, or provides a legitimate excuse for, poor behavior. But I do think that failure helps explain the ongoing toxicity that surrounds the team.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers used to be the laughing stock of the NFL before the Bengals yet you never heard of any of their players quitting the team because of how bad the food was in the player's lounge. Bad teams are bad because of the players or the coaching. I haven't looked closely but I doubt the name of a catering service is engraved on the side of the Lombardi trophy, nor have I yet to see a player doing a post game interview thank a cook for giving him such great meals.

On a side note, how long do you think it will be before we see the first post game interview where a player thanks Allah for his performance on the field. Honestly with all the sports I have watched over the years I can't believe I have never seen this happen. Do you think there will be a big stink in the media the first time it does?

[volcom69]

Anybody else hear Bob Holtzman say that the Bengals met with Palmer in July, and he said to look for a Palmer return??? Just saw this on twitter so not sure if its true or not, so thought i would ask if anybody else heard this???

All i know is i hope not, just when i think things are going in the right direction they would screw it up like this, are you kidding me!!! I would hope Brown would ship his a** back to cali, and tell him to hang out with his wife since thats what he wanted to do in the first place.

[derekshank]

If he shows up, it is only because he thinks it will force a trade.

This is the reason I thought having Jordan on the team was a good thing. As long as he was here, Palmer would stay away.

[volcom69]

If he shows up, it is only because he thinks it will force a trade.

This is the reason I thought having Jordan on the team was a good thing. As long as he was here, Palmer would stay away.

I guess they said something on sportscenter, which i missed, so dont know if its true or not.

All i know this team dosnt need any distractions, so hope he just stays away or it blows by, like Mike trades him away. Man am i tired of Palmer

[HairOnFire]

Relax guys, Palmer isn't showing up.....because he's a man of his word.

Well, that, and because he knows nobody would block for him.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Relax guys, Palmer isn't showing up.....because he's a man of his word.

Well, that, and because he knows nobody would block for him.

He'd be taking hard sacks in practice.

[HoosierCat]

Here's the espn story.

A Cincinnati Bengals front office source said quarterback Carson Palmer was at Paul Brown Stadium in late July and met with owner/GM Mike Brown, according to ESPN's Bob Holtzman.

Palmer, who has four years left on his contract, told one of the NFL's least-successful franchises in January that he would retire if he's not traded. The Bengals have had two winning seasons in the last 20 years, one of the worst stretches of futility in league history.

Bengals front office sources told Holtzman it is possible Palmer could report to the Bengals next week. The 31-year-old Palmer has never filed retirement papers, so the team would be obligated to pay him or trade him.

Brown has said the team will not trade Palmer, who is scheduled to make $11.5 million this season if he plays.

A source close to Palmer told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter said nothing has changed in terms of Palmer's situation.

Last week the Bengals waived Palmer's younger brother Jordan Palmer, giving older brother Carson more reason to stay away.

Jordan was the No. 2 quarterback last season behind his brother, and was signed to another contract at the start of training camp, hoping to get a chance to compete for a job. But it became clear quickly that Cincinnati had other plans.

Brown has said rookie Andy Dalton will get the starting nod. The Bengals also signed veteran Bruce Gradkowski in the offseason.

So it appears reports that Carson may show are all coming from the Bengals...