Carson Palmer Thread

[derekshank]

Why didn't we trade Chad for those draft picks again?

As much as I'd like to say it was MB taking a principled stand against Chad, I tend to think more than likely it was just that he didn't think the compensation of a 1st and a 3rd was adequate.

And the Broncos have proven now (twice) that he's probably right. Chad's pouting and tanking a season is no worse than what the Broncos received. And it kept Chad from getting his way (that part makes me smile).

[derekshank]

And for the record, I don't think that trading away or not trading away players equals or doesn't equal winning necessarily.

At least you are admitting that the "winning/losing" discussion doesn't apply all that much to this one.

So, now we're back to the matter of principle.

[cincyhokie]

Again, I fail to see what allowing the players to have their way, every single time they get tired of playing in Cincy, has ever done to foster a winning enviroment in Cincy? Derek has covered it, what you all are wanting the Bengals to do is what the Bengals have always done, which is give in to said request. And that sure as s**t has not worked. Empirically. Time tested, doesn't work.

These problems that we all know exist have nothing to do with keeping or not keeping players. The other 31 NFL teams have all done both, all with mixed results. The inmates running the asylum problem is going to get solved when the team addresses a wide variety of issues.

[cincyhokie]

And for the record, I don't think that trading away or not trading away players equals or doesn't equal winning necessarily.

At least you are admitting that the "winning/losing" discussion doesn't apply all that much to this one.

So, now we're back to the matter of principle.

Ha! Touche. Now we are back to the principle that acquiring the highest compensation for Palmer is better than letting him retire. That is if we are talking about winning and getting winning players in here.

[cincyhokie]

Why didn't we trade Chad for those draft picks again?

As much as I'd like to say it was MB taking a principled stand against Chad, I tend to think more than likely it was just that he didn't think the compensation of a 1st and a 3rd was adequate.

And the Broncos have proven now (twice) that he's probably right. Chad's pouting and tanking a season is no worse than what the Broncos received. And it kept Chad from getting his way (that part makes me smile).

The fact that Chad has been here at all has been a problem. That's where we lost that non-deal.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'd be all for cleaning house and getting the RIGHT players in here. Ok. How do we do that?

Outside of snipers shooting from the top rows of PBS, it ain't happening.

[cincyhokie]

Why don't the Steelers and Patriots, and other successful NFL teams, have this problem like the Bengals seem to have? Every 2-3 years a player wants out.

So once we can answer that we're back to what Army said earlier. It doesn't matter what they do or don't with Palmer, we're just going to keep seeing this happen again and again.

[HoosierCat]

Dillon openly spoke poorly of the Bengals, but continued to sign contracts with them. The closest thing to "clinging" was franchising him in 2001.

No. Chasing a guy and throwing money after him after he spends year after year badmouthing you is clinging. And pathological. And we really don't need to detail what good it's done cling to Chad, do we?

It's the Bengals long-time MO. Don't sign guys who want to be here -- sign guys who have no choice, from draft picks who can't sign elsewhere to washed up vets who have no other takers but want one last paycheck.

And now with Carson I see we want to go back to the Nineties. Carson should get his ass back to Cincy and mail it in for the next five years, damnit. He signed a contract so even if he's a quitter with no heart get out there. That would actually be the easy route.Do what team full after team full of Bengals did year after year: show up, keep their mouth shut, run around for three hours on Sunday, collect a check and then roar out of the parking lot for parts unknown after the final gun sounds.

[cincyhokie]

I'd be all for cleaning house and getting the RIGHT players in here. Ok. How do we do that?

Outside of snipers shooting from the top rows of PBS, it ain't happening.

So even if we call off the snipers...there's at least one player that's openly said he doesn't fit here anymore.

[derekshank]

So Hoosier... MB is now taking heat for the fact that when he drafts a player, that player has no other option than to sign with the Bengals?

And the fact that MB gets a hard on for bargains like Benson and Pacman is a completely separate issue. The reason players like that wouldn't sign here under normal circumstances is because big-name FAs require big bucks. He'd prefer to get guys on the cheap. Certainly something worth criticism... but not in this discussion.

And I don't concede your point on Dillon. If they had franchised him, and then he complained for the year (or held out for 10 games like he said he would have)... yes that would have been clinging. What did he do? He signed a 5 year extension.

You wouldn't have done that? Fine. I probably wouldn't have either... but Chad is the first guy who meets your "clinging" description. And correct me if I'm wrong... but you're one of the biggest Chad defenders.

And even if I conceded the Dillon example, that's two examples in the last 20 years. Half the number that you mocked me for earlier.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I have to say they are really drooling over Carson out here in Arizona. Very likely to give up a 1st in at least next years draft. Probably less in this years.

[TJJackson]

Why don't the Steelers and Patriots, and other successful NFL teams, have this problem like the Bengals seem to have?

The Steelers and the Patriots (etc) are not saddled with Son-of-a-Genius

Sh!t rolls downhill

[BengalszoneBilly]

Why don't the Steelers and Patriots, and other successful NFL teams, have this problem like the Bengals seem to have?

The Steelers and the Patriots (etc) are not saddled with Son-of-a-Genius

Sh!t rolls downhill

They also have GM's? Professionals doing their jobs.

[cincyhokie]

Why don't the Steelers and Patriots, and other successful NFL teams, have this problem like the Bengals seem to have?

The Steelers and the Patriots (etc) are not saddled with Son-of-a-Genius

Sh!t rolls downhill

My point exactly. So it doesn't matter if you "send a message" or "make a stand" in efforts to keep players here. It won't change a damn thing.

You can send a message all you want. You need to do your part that the message is heard, otherwise it won't mean anything. Nobody, no player, or agent is going to take Mike Brown serious when he doesn't even take winning seriously.

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

[COB]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

[walzav29]

There is no reason to believe that Brown will trade Carson. I think he'll let him retire.

[jjakq27]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

MB opened up his vault to Palmer after the 2005 regular season and made him one of the highest paid players in the league and I don't see or hear Carson offering to give any of it back either. I don't think MB is a vengeful person but I can see him asking Carson to honor the remainder of the contract that he signed when he got all of that money up front.

[jonahdsage]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

MB opened up his vault to Palmer after the 2005 regular season and made him one of the highest paid players in the league and I don't see or hear Carson offering to give any of it back either. I don't think MB is a vengeful person but I can see him asking Carson to honor the remainder of the contract that he signed when he got all of that money up front.

I think this is a great point. The whole contract structure on both sides of the coin is really ridiculous to me. Carson signed a contract, was one of the highest paid players in the NFL (is still in the top 10, I believe) and received a PILE of cash up front, guaranteed. I can imagine why Carson would feel upset, disappointed, wanting out etc. The reality, though, is he signed a contract and ought to honor it.

[TJJackson]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

This

[cincyhokie]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

MB opened up his vault to Palmer after the 2005 regular season and made him one of the highest paid players in the league and I don't see or hear Carson offering to give any of it back either. I don't think MB is a vengeful person but I can see him asking Carson to honor the remainder of the contract that he signed when he got all of that money up front.

I think this is a great point. The whole contract structure on both sides of the coin is really ridiculous to me. Carson signed a contract, was one of the highest paid players in the NFL (is still in the top 10, I believe) and received a PILE of cash up front, guaranteed. I can imagine why Carson would feel upset, disappointed, wanting out etc. The reality, though, is he signed a contract and ought to honor it.

Yes, and mean people ought to be nicer. Palmer signed a contract to play football for the Bengals, he did not sign a contract saying he could never retire if he chose to do so.

If Mike Brown wanted to make sure Palmer didn't leave, he should have spread out the frontloaded money more than he did. That's not Palmer's fault.

It is in Palmer's right to retire if he so chooses. Just as it is Mike Brown's right to make or not make moves that enhance winning.

That's alot of "oughts", huh?

[cincyhokie]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

MB opened up his vault to Palmer after the 2005 regular season and made him one of the highest paid players in the league and I don't see or hear Carson offering to give any of it back either. I don't think MB is a vengeful person but I can see him asking Carson to honor the remainder of the contract that he signed when he got all of that money up front.

Maybe he's waiting on Mike Brown to give up some the money paid by the Hamilton County taxpayers for PBS. Maybe they're mad at him for putting such a s**t product on the field for the last 11 years.

[jjakq27]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

MB opened up his vault to Palmer after the 2005 regular season and made him one of the highest paid players in the league and I don't see or hear Carson offering to give any of it back either. I don't think MB is a vengeful person but I can see him asking Carson to honor the remainder of the contract that he signed when he got all of that money up front.

I think this is a great point. The whole contract structure on both sides of the coin is really ridiculous to me. Carson signed a contract, was one of the highest paid players in the NFL (is still in the top 10, I believe) and received a PILE of cash up front, guaranteed. I can imagine why Carson would feel upset, disappointed, wanting out etc. The reality, though, is he signed a contract and ought to honor it.

Yes, and mean people ought to be nicer. Palmer signed a contract to play football for the Bengals, he did not sign a contract saying he could never retire if he chose to do so.

If Mike Brown wanted to make sure Palmer didn't leave, he should have spread out the frontloaded money more than he did. That's not Palmer's fault.

It is in Palmer's right to retire if he so chooses. Just as it is Mike Brown's right to make or not make moves that enhance winning.

That's alot of "oughts", huh?

No one is stopping Palmer from retiring. He should go ahead and do it if MB won't release him from his contract.

[HairOnFire]

You would have to figure that any 39 page thread would include comments of penis pumps and bongs.

No thanks are required.

Bongs I can handle. Penis pumps seem kinda creepy.

Well, all I'll say in my own defense is the penis pump remark was just a joking warning posted publically but intended soley for a single poster. If it helps, try thinking of it as my own subtle way of telling someone that I eagerly look forward to an escalation of hostilities on any terms.

For those of you who prefer a more child-friendly form of warning, please subsitute the following....

"Nana nana boo boo. Stick your head in doo doo."

[Kazkal]

You would have to figure that any 39 page thread would include comments of penis pumps and bongs.

No thanks are required.

Bongs I can handle. Penis pumps seem kinda creepy.

Well, all I'll say in my own defense is the penis pump remark was just a joking warning posted publically but intended soley for a single poster. If it helps, try thinking of it as my own subtle way of telling someone that I eagerly look forward to an escalation of hostilities on any terms.

For those of you who prefer a more child-friendly form of warning, please subsitute the following....

"I'm Better then you,Nana nana boo boo. Stick your head in doo doo."

you forgot to add I'm better then you. <3 for Tosh Reference heh.

[COB]

So with that knowledge. Why would you take a stance that let's Palmer retire and you get nothing to improve your team when you were 4-12 last season?

Because Mike takes winning (contractual matters of principle, not football games) very seriously.

MB opened up his vault to Palmer after the 2005 regular season and made him one of the highest paid players in the league and I don't see or hear Carson offering to give any of it back either. I don't think MB is a vengeful person but I can see him asking Carson to honor the remainder of the contract that he signed when he got all of that money up front.

That's not all Mike's done for Palmer. He also hired his little brother as a backup when no one else wanted him. He consistently spent big money and draft picks on weapons to make sure Palmer had good players to throw to. He honored Palmer's request to bring TO in after the two played catch out in SoCal. He never complained when Palmer refused to stick around and work in the offseason, instead flying back to SoCal as soon as the season was over and working out there. He frontloaded the bonus money I'm sure at Palmer's request. He kept his mouth shut when Palmer's performance deteriorated even as Mike kept paying him like one of the 10 best players in the league.

A case could be made that Carson is a passive/aggressive, ungrateful, mopey little quitter. But in spite of that, Mike should do what's best for the Bengals, even if it means not wreaking Brown Family vengeance on Palmer.