THE CHANGES THREAD...Marvin to return

[jjakq27]

Blow it up and replace the coaching staff with people who will not only build a different team, but one that attempts to win in different ways than this one.

Just 'cause they run everything off left tackle and we can't cover a tight end or defend the sideline passes twenty yards downfield you wanna clean house ...geez.

[HairOnFire]

Point blank, this is the part of our story where mow is we needs to morph into mow them down.

Works for me. Trouble is, I don't see it happening. The front office would have to pay too many guys not to coach, pay more new guys money to coach, all in the face of a lockout/strike/whatever.

Well, the coach who makes the biggest check has an expiring contract so there's no dead money to worry about. In fact, any new contract Marvin would sign will almost certainly have to be multi-year...so the dead money risk only comes into play if he's retained. f**k that.

Moving on, Zimmer is only inked for one more year as a coordinator, and I'm guessing many will suggest he deserves another chance as a coordinator. But the idea he should be promoted to head coach after his defense has consistently performed poorly in all areas seems unworthy of further consideration. So at most we're talking about one year of dead money IF the new head coach wants to dump Zimmer. And that may be how it plays out. Then again, new head coaches often have trouble fleshing out their coaching staff so it's probably an even bet Zimmer would be retained.

As for Bratkowski, I defy anyone to argue that any money he's paid, whether fired or not, isn't the very definition of dead money. That said, I think he's got two years left on his contract.....more than enough time to ruin the careers of both Carson Palmer and the unfortunately named Andrew Luck.

[HoosierCat]

As for Bratkowski, I defy anyone to argue that any money he's paid, whether fired or not, isn't the very definition of dead money. That said, I think he's got two years left on his contract.....more than enough time to ruin the careers of both Carson Palmer and the unfortunately named Andrew Luck.

And there ya go. That's the only one that counts in my book. Lewis and Zimmer I can take or leave but Brat (and frankly the whole offensive coaching staff) need to go IMHO. Yet that seems to me the least likely outcome of this season. No matter what else they do, if Sideshow Bob goes, I will have some hope for 2011. If he stays, then the season's over in February of next year.

[gregstephens]

As for Bratkowski, I defy anyone to argue that any money he's paid, whether fired or not, isn't the very definition of dead money. That said, I think he's got two years left on his contract.....more than enough time to ruin the careers of both Carson Palmer and the unfortunately named Andrew Luck.

And there ya go. That's the only one that counts in my book. Lewis and Zimmer I can take or leave but Brat (and frankly the whole offensive coaching staff) need to go IMHO. Yet that seems to me the least likely outcome of this season. No matter what else they do, if Sideshow Bob goes, I will have some hope for 2011. If he stays, then the season's over in February of next year.

Yup. Honestly, my contention is still that the defensive problems are a result of three things. 1) injuries. 2) some admittedly needed upgrades on the line that can be addressed in draft. 3) and to me the biggie, the defense has just quit because of the ineptitude of the offense.

Number one takes care of itself with time. Number two can only be addressed so much because of our messed up scouting system. Neither Zim nor any other DC would have control over those two issues. Number three can be remedied by a new offensive coaching staff, new offensive personnel and philosophy. As long as Brat stays, nothing in number three's remedy will be addressed. Therefore, no hope for either side of the ball.

[Kazkal]

And there ya go. That's the only one that counts in my book. Lewis and Zimmer I can take or leave but Brat (and frankly the whole offensive coaching staff) need to go IMHO. Yet that seems to me the least likely outcome of this season. No matter what else

Yup. Honestly, my contention is still that the defensive problems are a result of three things. 1) injuries. 2) some admittedly needed upgrades on the line that can be addressed in draft. 3) and to me the biggie, the defense has just quit because of the ineptitude of the offense.

Yup with how banged up the secondary isn its hard to blame all the Defensive coaches... Hayes though I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt since he always had low rounders to work with.

But with talent of MJ ,Sims,dunlap and even geno I think it would just suit us better to go find a better cnoach that could help them more since weshould cast off the older guys like geathers,odom & tank

So when we let Marvin walk I'd like to see Hayes 1 & 2,Mike Sheppard,Brat,Alexander & Zimpse Join him...if wen brought someone like Jim Harbaugh in he would want his own offensive Coaching staff i'm sure.

PS,Does anyone else think it's stupid Mike Brown doesn't wanna pay more to cut Assistant Coaches &Coordinators earlier yet he'll go spend 50 million on WR's for one year.

[HairOnFire]

Lewis and Zimmer I can take or leave but Brat (and frankly the whole offensive coaching staff) need to go IMHO. Yet that seems to me the least likely outcome of this season.

Where's the crap-stat based excuses I've grown to love?

Regardless, I don't disagree. And I say that precisely because Bratkowski has deliberately rebuilt the Bengals offensive attack around a pair of aging wideouts who shouldn't be allowed within spitting distance of this teams roster next season. In the process he's practically ruined Carson Palmer and made Cedric Benson into a frustrated pressing afterthought who shouldn't give returning to this team a moment of consideration.

And it doesn't end there, does it? Jermain Gresham is so mistake prone he's just as likely to be involved in a big play for the opposing team, yet he's on pace to set records for rookie TE's. Bernard Scott has regressed horribly. Quan Cosby has regressed horribly. Jerome Simpson still has a roster spot but no role whatsoever. Jordan Shipley has become a fan favorite despite doing almost nothing of note. A rich mans version of Andre Caldwell, who now finds himself amongst roster players who have almost no role to play. In short, none of the young players are developing as hoped and we're still seeing rookie mistakes from veteran star players.

Point blank, this isn't a Top10 offense. Rather, it's decidely inferior to last seasons offense, and any further attempt to make this version work only results in this team become even more pussified.

That said, three out of four of us will probably watch Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens appearance on tonights Jimmy Fallon Show.

[jjakq27]

More speculation about next year. Marvin, Carson, Chad, TO, Benson all gone?

/>http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/11/24/la-canfora-marvin-lewis-very-unlikely-to-return/

[volcom69]

More speculation about next year. Marvin, Carson, Chad, TO, Benson all gone?

/>http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/11/24/la-canfora-marvin-lewis-very-unlikely-to-return/

Why wait and longer let Marvin go now! This team is hopeless, and there future is not very bright! Time to start over, and i really dont care who you have coaching just somebody who reminds these players that there are two halfs in a football game?

[BengalszoneBilly]

More speculation about next year. Marvin, Carson, Chad, TO, Benson all gone?

/>http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/11/24/la-canfora-marvin-lewis-very-unlikely-to-return/

Why wait and longer let Marvin go now! This team is hopeless, and there future is not very bright! Time to start over, and i really dont care who you have coaching just somebody who reminds these players that there are two halfs in a football game?

Carson Palmer has to go with Marvin. They arrived together, they must go together.

[Kazkal]

More speculation about next year. Marvin, Carson, Chad, TO, Benson all gone?

/>http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/11/24/la-canfora-marvin-lewis-very-unlikely-to-return/

Why wait and longer let Marvin go now! This team is hopeless, and there future is not very bright! Time to start over, and i really dont care who you have coaching just somebody who reminds these players that there are two halfs in a football game?

Carson Palmer has to go with Marvin. They arrived together, they must go together.

Agreed I like Carson best wishes after he's done here,But I'm ready for new HC New QB and hopefully new GM/Someone to run football operations

[ShulaSteakhouse]

More speculation about next year. Marvin, Carson, Chad, TO, Benson all gone?

/>http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/11/24/la-canfora-marvin-lewis-very-unlikely-to-return/

I'm pretty sure Carson will be back, not sure bout the rest yet, although I suspect Benson will be. But you know they'll just draft a WR in the 1st, or a RB, then an 0-lineman or CB in the 2nd, the same one of 2 in the 3rd, to replace the losses.

They may get another average, bargain or over-the-hill FA to fill out a need and a couple for depth.

Won't change much, and I don't expect a competent coaching staff to be installed any time soon.

I agree with the above, that Bratkowski leaving and bringing in a new o-coordinator, (versus promoting someone) would be a positive move that might make the most impact.

Don't under-estimate Mike Brown's loyalty and love for all things Brat though.

[Kazkal]

Few THings to Factor in Carson Staying

-Rookie Payscale will more then likely be in place with a new CBA it won't be as bad paying a rookie even if he has to sit a year...

-Carson Palmer Played like Trash This season and even though he wasn solid last year you could tell there was a problem you think Mike Brown will wants to continue paying Carson as atop 5QB ? When he's not even top 16 atm or even 26.

-Depending on whos the Head coach is most will probably not want Carson but be able find their guy may it be vet or young

[jjakq27]

I mentioned this on the game thread but did anybody hear that Marvin was unable to find the red challenge flag on the muffed punt? I heard that from my son who was at a family gathering last night.

The problem is team identity. They were a run-oriented team after being pass happy in 2006-2007. I don't count 2008 since CP was injured. Now it seems like they have swung back to being pass happy and impatient every time they are in some type of difficult situation. Wearing down the opposition and keeping your defense fresh was the calling card of last years' team....and it worked.

It's time to rebuild the lines. I think there are some young guys on the D-line that have potential. The O-line has not been good. Failing to adequately replace Willie and Levi several years ago was the beginning of the end for Palmer and the O. Our O-line is made of fools-gold. In the end they are what they are. FA's, low picks and others cast-offs.

This team has been great when the O-line has been great and that means making the investment in it.

[BengalPimp]

IMO Carson would be a very good QB again with a better Offensive Coordinator. I mean, Bratkowski is an idiot, plain and simple. I still think Fitzpatrick is a bum, but he has put up good numbers in the Bills system. Although Curtis Modkins has the "title" of Offensive Coordinator/RB's Coach, It is Chan Gailey who calls the Offensive Plays. Fitzpatrick was ABSOLUTE GARBAGE with the Bengals, but has resurrected his career after getting as far away from Bratkowski as possible. I honestly don't get it? Do you think any QB...Luck, Locker, Mallett....Freakin Joe Montana even would be successful under Brat? Bratkowski absolutely needs to be the first one to go....Hire a new experienced Coordinator, and let him evaluate the current talent, and how they would/would not fit in his scheme....THAT'S WERE YOU START....You can't just jettison players then expect to land a quality Offensive Coodinator with nothing in the cupboard...It aint happening.....

Bottomline, you don't dump your Franchise QB unless you have something better (or potentially better) already on your roster!

That's me thinking clearly, not full of emotion after what has been a very frustrating season.

[Kazkal]

IMO Carson would be a very good QB again with a better Offensive Coordinator. I mean, Bratkowski is an idiot, plain and simple. I still think Fitzpatrick is a bum, but he has put up good numbers in the Bills system. Although Curtis Modkins has the "title" of Offensive Coordinator/RB's Coach, It is Chan Gailey who calls the Offensive Plays. Fitzpatrick was ABSOLUTE GARBAGE with the Bengals, but has resurrected his career after getting as far away from Bratkowski as possible. I honestly don't get it? Do you think any QB...Luck, Locker, Mallett....Freakin Joe Montana even would be successful under Brat? Bratkowski absolutely needs to be the first one to go....Hire a new experienced Coordinator, and let him evaluate the current talent, and how they would/would not fit in his scheme....THAT'S WERE YOU START....You can't just jettison players then expect to land a quality Offensive Coodinator with nothing in the cupboard...It aint happening.....

Bottomline, you don't dump your Franchise QB unless you have something better (or potentially better) already on your roster!

That's me thinking clearly, not full of emotion after what has been a very frustrating season.

With him being 31 and only being in one system do we take that chance though? Does our New HC / OC want to take that chance(FIngers Crossed we have a new OC/HC)..

I like Carson and I'm cool with keeping him around but same time I'd like to see a very viable Option B if his Elbow / decision making skills are truly the problem.

Bottomline, you don't dump your Franchise QB unless you have something better (or potentially better) already on your roster!

Hence I'd Be Willing to take Andrew Luck or a Top Tier QB in this years draft and let them Sit behind carson,If he Carson finds his A game again then we won't have to worry about 1st rounder sitting on the bench and let him sit and develop ala aaron rodgers....

[BengalPimp]

Bottomline, you don't dump your Franchise QB unless you have something better (or potentially better) already on your roster!

Hence I'd Be Willing to take Andrew Luck or a Top Tier QB in this years draft and let them Sit behind carson,If he Carson finds his A game again then we won't have to worry about 1st rounder sitting on the bench and let him sit and develop ala aaron rodgers....

First, we would need the #1 pick to get Luck, and the Bengals will find some way to screw up getting the #1 Pick. Second, Luck (or any other QB) cannot....MUST NOT, come to this team with this current O-Line, and Bratkowski as Offensive Coordinator....Nothing good can possibly come from that situation...I'd like to see Carson with at least 1 season with a new Offensive Coodinator (probably won't happen) but I'd rather fix other glaring needs like RT (and move Andre to guard where he can potentially be very good like Leonard Davis and Robert Gallery after making the switch), a RB (benson's deal is up after the season and i wouldn't pay him sh*t), a Stud WR (if they lose Ocho & T.O.) Maybe Patrick Peterson (if they lose JJoe), and hope for Landy Jones out of Oklahoma next year...If they blow up this team, there is a very real possibility we will be in position to select him next year...as I've said before...Landry Jones is the Real Deal (Luck maybe good, but Landry Jones will be an NFL Stud)

[Kazkal]

We could get him at 2# with Panthers deciding give Jimmy clausen more time. :>

[cincy9275]

guys it does not matter who coaches this team. as long as mike brown runs the show this team will fail just as it has consistently under browns watch. those who keep say hire a GM. as long as brown is around it will not happen, i guaranteed it!! back in 06 i said brat and the rest of the wrecking crew, was hurting the team then and needed to go. i said then this staff would lead to demise of carson, marvin and the rest of this team. it's a shame that the average fan could see this, but our semi retarded owner can't. so as long as special needs mikey is around, expect more of the same. terrible coaching, retread players and losing records. that is why we are THE BUNGLES!!! f**k YOU SPECIAL NEEDS MIKE!!

[Spor_tees]

Florio's latest says it is a done deal Marvin is gonzo.

[cincyhokie]

While Zimmer looks to be the shoe-in for the next HC, don't forget it was MB that wanted Tom Coughlin over Marvin Lewis. So there's a CHANCE we could see someone with head coaching experience in here next year.

With that being said, I think it's more important that we get a new OC in here. In fact, I don't care if Vince Lombardi is the new HC, if Brat is still the OC we're fuct.

[HoosierCat]

While Zimmer looks to be the shoe-in for the next HC, don't forget it was MB that wanted Tom Coughlin over Marvin Lewis.

I wouldn't except the word at the time was that Mikey wanted Mike Mularkey. Coughlin wanted too much power and too many changes; he was never said to be a serious candidate.

[BengalszoneBilly]

With that being said, I think it's more important that we get a new OC in here.

IMO it's equally important. One without the other likely won't pay dividends.

[volcom69]

If they really wanted Zimmer as a head coach, then what are they waiting for. Fire Lewis and see how Zimmer does, see if the players take to Zimmer. What we have is not working, so if Zimmer is the guy then do it now. I really hope Zimmer is not the Head Coach, this team needs a new HC, and i want the HC to pick his own staff.

[Kazkal]

While Zimmer looks to be the shoe-in for the next HC, don't forget it was MB that wanted Tom Coughlin over Marvin Lewis.

I wouldn't except the word at the time was that Mikey wanted Mike Mularkey. Coughlin wanted too much power and too many changes; he was never said to be a serious candidate.

I wanna do Jessica Alba but she doesn't wanna do me back...Doesn't change the fact I really REALLY want Jessica alba..

SO well there was little to no chance coughlin was going to end up here doesn't mean Mikey didn't like him simply he doesn't wanna take the extra steps to win.

PS,I think Coughlin would be great fit for what we need now...a Hard Ass who isn't going to baby players and Loves Defensive Linemen that can passrush.

[HoosierCat]

I wanna do Jessica Alba but she doesn't wanna do me back...Doesn't change the fact I really REALLY want Jessica alba..

SO well there was little to no chance coughlin was going to end up here doesn't mean Mikey didn't like him simply he doesn't wanna take the extra steps to win.

All I'm relating is what the scuttlebutt was at the time. IIRC Coughlin was the first candidate they interviewed, and reports were that he came in guns blazing, with plans not only for the team on the field but also a revamp of operations further up the chain to create something resembling a real pro football organization. In short, Tom was only going to work for Mikey on his terms, and that was a nonstarter.

Mularkey was interviewed not once, but twice -- once while Pittsburgh was still active in the playoffs and again after they had been knocked out. Word was that after the second interview, he had actually been offered the job, but as that year's hot young offensive coordinator he had other teams interested and wanted to do some other interviews before committing. The Bengals didn't want to wait, and so ended up giving the job to Marvin (who was alleged to be Katie & Troy's favorite). Mularkey would end up flaming out in Buffalo.