THE CHANGES THREAD...Marvin to return

[vettespd20]

I really hope we keep marvin. Who else will come here and deal with MB and do better? I know this year sucked but we have half if not a third of the scouts that most teams do. MB controls the 53 man roster (thats really been hurting us). I think that if we keep marvin and FINALLY BROWN gives in to allowing the COACH to control the roster and we get more scouts, and fire brat this team can be the biggest rebounding team next year in the NFL. I know we are going to lose a lot of big names but think about how many new players would be open to play for MARVIN on a team he has much more control of. Just my .02

[Wraith]

From Paul Doughterty

"Lewis said The Family wants him to take charge. "From sun-up to sundown," he said. Lewis also said he would hire his assistants, who wouldn't scout college games in the fall. "The scope of the coaches' involvement is going to be very pleasing to me" was how he put it.

Soon, Lewis will announce a coaching staff that doesn't include the familiar dead wood. Soon after that, he'll announce the addition of scouts. Not as many as he needs. The Family doesn't do sweeping change. It moves glacially. But a noticeable upgrade."

If this is true, all I can say is hallelujah!

[jjakq27]

I wonder if Mike is at the point in his career where he has begun to think about his legacy. For some people, him staying here when he could have left, was a noble gesture. However that was 1995.

10 years after the revenue-generator known as PBS opened and we have only had two winning seasons. So perhaps he has conceded that things could be or should be done differently without losing overall control of the team. I certainly hope so.

I hope we see some legitimate change. Give Marvin the opportunity to once-and-for-all finish building the foundation of this franchise like he wanted to in 2003. He can't do any worse than the last 18 years.

[ArmyBengal]

We probably will get some bullsh*t ML presser we've all come accustomed to and never really know what did or didn't happen and all of the speculation will continue for another 2-3 seasons until we are right back at this same point. Oh well, I'll try to remain upbeat.

[ben]

Now Joe Reedy is chiming in:

RT @joereedy: NFL source on Lewis and #bengals: "He's close to a decision but there still are a lot of considerations in the air."

Marvin is coming back. What a joke!!! This orginazation is the laughing stock of sports! Sounds like Marvin caved in big time , what a coward! . There will be no changes just a scared coach that will continue to be a puppet for Mike Brown.

[walzav29]

(Are we happy that Marvin is staying?)

I am if it means Marvin has more say. If he would have left that would mean that nothing would change. What do you think?

[vettespd20]

I AGREE, IF HE RETURNS he will be getting more power. I am sure he wouldnt if not, so in that reasoning yes I hope he comes back. The changes he is asking for could change A LOT!!!!

[jjakq27]

From Paul Doughterty

"Lewis said The Family wants him to take charge. "From sun-up to sundown," he said. Lewis also said he would hire his assistants, who wouldn't scout college games in the fall. "The scope of the coaches' involvement is going to be very pleasing to me" was how he put it.

Soon, Lewis will announce a coaching staff that doesn't include the familiar dead wood. Soon after that, he'll announce the addition of scouts. Not as many as he needs. The Family doesn't do sweeping change. It moves glacially. But a noticeable upgrade."

Sadly, that quote is from 2003.

[membengal]

Oh. Damn. Thought that was current.

[Sea Ray]

Ironic that in the end he may go from being the fans' whipping boy to hero if he turns out to be the one to hold MB's feet to the fire and really get the changes that the fans have been clamoring for.

[jjakq27]

Oh. Damn. Thought that was current.

http://bengals.enqui...wwwben2a18.html

You could probably change the date and re-release it when all of this has settled in a day or so. It will all sound very similar, I suspect.

[Sea Ray]

Yep, we've been down this road before...

/>http://bengals.enquirer.com/2003/01/18/wwwben2a18.html

[HairOnFire]

If brat goes, I can live with this. If brat stays, I will be pissed.

That seems to be the concensus around here and I concur

Seconded, or thirded, or whatever it is. Get Mike Brown on the phone and let him know Bengalszone has spoken.

Be sure to tell Mikey that HairOnFire is going to be pissed either way.

Point blank, I've blasted away at Bob Bratkowski all season long, but in the end I'm both unwilling and unable to blame him for everything that went wrong with Marvin Lewis's team. Nor can I forget how often we've heard a mic'd up Marvin Lewis utter something along the lines of..."Whatever you want, Bob."

Bottom Line: My feelings about Marvin have been mixed all season long, but in the end I'd seen enough to want him gone regardless of all other considerations.

[membengal]

Don't disagree w/ that, hair. But if I were forced to choose between ml stay/brat go or brat stay/ml go, I would take the former. My main preference was they all go, but I am not going to get that I guess. I def think ml f**ked up this season, and has done so before.

[jjakq27]

Ironic that in the end he may go from being the fans' whipping boy to hero if he turns out to be the one to hold MB's feet to the fire and really get the changes that the fans have been clamoring for.

Let's hope it turns out that way.

[Sea Ray]

Be sure to tell Mikey that HairOnFire is going to be pissed either way.

Point blank, I've blasted away at Bob Bratkowski all season long, but in the end I'm both unwilling and unable to blame him for everything that went wrong with Marvin Lewis's team. Nor can I forget how often we've heard a mic'd up Marvin Lewis utter something along the lines of..."Whatever you want, Bob."

Bottom Line: My feelings about Marvin have been mixed all season long, but in the end I'd seen enough to want him gone regardless of all other considerations.

Will you feel differently if after the dust clears, Bratkowski is gone and word leaks out that it was Marvin who pushed for the firing and not MB?

[mb376905]

If MB truly is going to give power over to Marvin and the coaches, this could be the biggest day in Bengals history.

[bwillycuse]

This is hard.

I was done with Lewis. Done.

But, If he is able to get Mikey to step things up and come up to par with the rest of the league in the supposed deficiencies. I may be able to deal.

Seriously - What kind of coach would Mike be able to lure here?

But this is coming from a fan who fears a repeat of the '90s.

Institutional changes? Ill back Marvin if he gets it done. (He still sucks as a game manager). But players seem to play hard for him.

Bottom line though...I do not buy season tix again this year if Brat is still the OC.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

A slight bit off-topic, but I was glad to hear Eric Thomas call-out Paul Alexander on Sunday night, on TV ("I don't know him that way now, but I know when he was with the Jets, he wasn't very good.")

It's guys like Alexander and Brat that I have to believe Marvin thinks have been around too long, I hope.

The style of blocking and offense here, even when the defense is good, hasn't produced much of anything consistently. Drafting RB's, WR's and QB's in the 1st and 2nd round every other year tend to cover-up the deficiencies, but as we saw Sunday, against playoff teams, they get dominated on the line and went something like 2 for 7 on 3rd or 4th and 1, which is absolutely pathetic. And we saw how the Jets just dominated them in the trenches twice in a row last year.

But I'm sure he's after the indoor facility, the ability to choose his offensive coaches and make calls on offensive players etc.., more than anything.

Marvin is only the "right guy" in the sense that he is in a position to change things other coaches will not be able to. Brown has a sense of trust and history with Marvin that may allow that to happen.

It's really our only hope of things ever changing, otherwise we're waiting for a lucky division championship every 5-10 seasons.

[walzav29]

Are we going to have to wait until Friday?

[COB]

If Mike agrees to institutional changes, (Marvin becomes sovereign of all he surveys), will Mike even be able to swallow his pride and announce it? I can see a scenario where they just say some changes were made, and then don't explain anything.

It is the way Mike has done some things in the past. Just trying to figure out who has final say on some things with the Bengals is difficult. It comes off as smug and arrogant, though I can't say for sure if that is the cause. It may be the opposite.

[HairOnFire]

Be sure to tell Mikey that HairOnFire is going to be pissed either way.

Point blank, I've blasted away at Bob Bratkowski all season long, but in the end I'm both unwilling and unable to blame him for everything that went wrong with Marvin Lewis's team. Nor can I forget how often we've heard a mic'd up Marvin Lewis utter something along the lines of..."Whatever you want, Bob."

Bottom Line: My feelings about Marvin have been mixed all season long, but in the end I'd seen enough to want him gone regardless of all other considerations.

Will you feel differently if after the dust clears, Bratkowski is gone and word leaks out that it was Marvin who pushed for the firing and not MB?

Absolutely. But even if it's learned that Marvin only went along with the change in offensive identity reluctantly, he still went along. And it's his team, right? So I'd greet the news that Marvin had pushed Brat out with open arms even as I continued to blame him for a season that was needlessly wasted.

Opinions SHOULD change when facts and circumstances change, right? So I'll swing back and forth in the coming weeks without apology based upon whatever moves are made next. But I'll never look at Marvin Lewis the same way no matter how many other coaches are fired. And I say that because he failed in his role as badly as anyone on his staff.

Do YOUR job, right?

[HairOnFire]

If Mike agrees to institutional changes, (Marvin becomes sovereign of all he surveys), will Mike even be able to swallow his pride and announce it? I can see a scenario where they just say some changes were made, and then don't explain anything.

I think the matter of institutional change is overblown as it's unlikely Brown is stonewalling on every issue. More likely he's agreeable to some change and steadfast against others. And on the other side, Lewis is likely willing to continue working for Brown if some of his demands aren't met.

But when it comes to sharing control the first question I have is what kind of contract length are they discussing? What do you offer a head coach whose team just bottomed out? Do you hand the keys to the kingdom to a guy who at best deserves a one-year stay of execution?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

But even if it's learned that Marvin only went along with the change in offensive identity reluctantly, he still went along. And it's his team, right?

Nope. It's most certainly Mikey's team. Literally, figuratively, and otherwise.

If Brat knows he won't be fired, he's empowered to do essentially whatever he wants. What's Marvin going to do? Call the plays himself? And even if he did take play calling duties away and give them to...who? Alexander?...would that stick, or would Mikey cut Marvin's legs out?

I think Marvin tried to make the best of a terrible situation by being the grown up in the situation. The only other option seems to have been a scorched earth approach.

[jjakq27]

From the dotcom

Despite reports the Bengals expect head coach Marvin Lewis to return, there was no agreement after two Tuesday morning meetings and it wasn't known if or when the two sides would meet again.

It's believed that there are a variety of issues at play in the negotiations centering around the staffing and scouting and how the March 4 end of the collective bargaining agreement impacts them.