THE CHANGES THREAD...Marvin to return

[volcom69]

HC in Cincy. The organization sucks, but it's still a HC. I think the team has talent. What a draft they just had. Hell. I think the Bengals D has more talent than Dallas. Mike Zimmer will be the next Bengals head coach.

I don't hate that idea.

Im not sure how i feel about Zimmer as the head man, but he may be the only fool to take the job!

So next year Zimmer will be the head man, and what Brat will still be here ,Alexander will still be here, because Mike wont let Zimmer fire anyone? So what changes, nothing and we still suck, so what good is it. I was excited about the offseason moves, but now i feel like whatever they do might not make a difference!

[walzav29]

That F'n dummy Mike Brown will offer Zim the job. Zim will say I will, but I want changes. No bubble, but fire Brat. Ok. He's tight with Brat though (Zim). I know Brown will offer something. I know that f'n dummy like Hannibal knew Clarice!

[walzav29]

Good sign

/>http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_SACKS&experience=0&d-447263-n=1&season=2010&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1

[HoosierCat]

The question is this: if it's true that Marvin leaves because Mike won't make the investments that many of us had called for, then what's the difference? What will change? The next few days will be interesting indeed...

[walzav29]

What will change? Nothing! We suck because of the owner. Until he's gone we have no shot. All we can hope for is a mastermind who can win despite having Mike Brown, an indoor practice facility, scouts, and say in personel matters.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Good sign

/>http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_SACKS&experience=0&d-447263-n=1&season=2010&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1

....and somebody made the glass half full. Man, Dunlap came on strong. And that was in 11 games. 8.5 sacks in the last 6 games.

Wasn't Marvin saying something about Dunlap not being ready? Is he ready now?

[Kazkal]

Good sign

/>http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&seasonType=REG&statisticPositionCategory=DEFENSIVE_LINEMAN&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_SACKS&experience=0&d-447263-n=1&season=2010&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=1&d-447263-p=1

....and somebody made the glass half full. Man, Dunlap came on strong. And that was in 11 games. 8.5 sacks in the last 6 games.

Wasn't Marvin saying something about Dunlap not being ready? Is he ready now?

He was activated for 11 games doesn't mean they were rally using him... he was pretty much a bench warmer the first couple of games,Suh is still really impressive though since he got 10 sacks as a DT.

[Sea Ray]

HC in Cincy. The organization sucks, but it's still a HC. I think the team has talent. What a draft they just had. Hell. I think the Bengals D has more talent than Dallas. Mike Zimmer will be the next Bengals head coach.

I don't hate that idea.

Are you sure about that? Word is that Zimmer and Bratkowski have been close friends for 30 yrs. Still want Zimmer if it means more Bratkowski?

[kingwilly]

HC in Cincy. The organization sucks, but it's still a HC. I think the team has talent. What a draft they just had. Hell. I think the Bengals D has more talent than Dallas. Mike Zimmer will be the next Bengals head coach.

I don't hate that idea.

Are you sure about that? Word is that Zimmer and Bratkowski have been close friends for 30 yrs. Still want Zimmer if it means more Bratkowski?

F that.

I'd bring back Chuckie B if it meant we could finally jettison Brat.

[kingwilly]

Some thoughts on changes:

Marvin - Hats off to a guy toiling under 1974 working conditions in 2010. He ushered in a new culture of football but cannot deliver the Brown family the Holy Grail, because they operate as the family business. Not with this front office, this staff, this owner. Nicely transformed the mentality of the incoming players and gave the place some real stability and trust. However, nothing will change until Mr. Mike Brown passes on and leaves the family to make fresh, modern decisions about modern football.

Marvin will be high on the list for places in the NFL like Carolina, Oakland, SF, perhaps Cleveland, perhaps Miami, maybe even Tennessee. In the NCAA, if Pitt pursues him he could be enticed. No more idiot ownership, just cramped rules regarding recruiting, practice and academics but better environment and possibly a more enjoyable "life" with less pressure and less frustrations.

Carson - Is his arm OK? Maybe. Does he have the internal fortitude to lead this offense another year? Maybe. Despite massive changes to the scheme, can he transform into more of a "game manager" a la 2009? Maybe. DO I want to see him back? No.

I like Carson but I think he is in the same spot as others who have been worn down by losing, worn out by the lack of inspiration. Think of how Simpson and Caldwell played. Energy, effort, drive. I think a new QB can bring new fire and spark this offense. Young guys like Collins and Mathis, Simpson, Shipley, Gresham, Scott, Coffman.... These guys are not corrupted by years of losing, since some are only bit players who are not necessarily on the bench because they lost out on the practice field but because they are not coaches favorite. These guys can still be inspired. They have not been blunted and dulled like Palmer.

Carson could EASILY go somewhere else and prosper. Heck, there will be a mad rush for him in places like Washington, Miami, Seattle, SF, Oakland, Minny, Buffalo and AZ. No matter, he deserves a second chance to get it back. Get out from under the Brown family funk. I think he should go for it and make a run. He's got 4 good years before his body will really start having a hard time. He could go to the NFC West and dominate. Bottom line is he's done in Cincy. I think he should want to move on more than anyone.

Chad - I think we've seen enough. The Chad experience can now be considered over. Chad, for a time, was the best WR in the game. Defenses still load up to stop him for the purpose of keeping him quiet. When you gloat about every TD, people will work extra hard to keep them from occurring. As it is, no one can say he is still elite. His "Brown" toxicity is probably the highest of them all, where his will to win has been so overclocked, he has burned himself up. He no longer focuses on his game, with his media efforts and his extracurriculars. He is a sideshow who takes the air out of the room, so much so that there is no room for winning a team game with him around. Of them all, he is probably the most "done". I am not sure any other team will put up with his shenanigans, so he'll need to get by on his skills. He will work another year or two but in places like Detroit or Houston.

New Coach - Hard to picture. Marvin wanted valid changes, things any other coaching candidate will also want, and SoP balked. Who will come here from outside and take this job knowing all of that? Not anyone I think can win. This leaves Zimmer, Brat, maybe Alexander as the default replacements. I puke in my mouth when I imagine Brat as HC. It would be fitting for it to happen, almost an even greater lesson for SoP, getting the cart out of the rut with the horses he's got. Insanity is here. It begins again this week.

[Kazkal]

HC in Cincy. The organization sucks, but it's still a HC. I think the team has talent. What a draft they just had. Hell. I think the Bengals D has more talent than Dallas. Mike Zimmer will be the next Bengals head coach.

I don't hate that idea.

Are you sure about that? Word is that Zimmer and Bratkowski have been close friends for 30 yrs. Still want Zimmer if it means more Bratkowski?

Because I think Zimmer would want to be a successful coach and "mike brown" would do the fire.Plus Brat shouldn't be all that surprised does he and Alexander actually feel they deserve to keep there jobs? they should see it coming.

[membengal]

Not trying to pick a fight, but "1974 working conditions"? Come on. It isn't like the Bengals are still at Spinney field. They dress for practices in a still state of the art NFL facility and practice either on specially designed practice fields or in the stadium. I don't see how a bubble would hurt either, but a part of me thinks ML is deflecting his failure with that noise and a bunch of fans are buying in way too much. Same practice conditions and same personnel set-up yielded a division champion a year ago. I cannot believe that all of a sudden they were a four win team because of no bubble. That's bulls**t. As for the front office complaint, I defy anyone to find a better draft in the last 20 years in Bengaldom than the one that was on the field this season. Gresham/Dunlap/Shipley/Atkins were all NFL ready and more than just contributed. They should have been on the field and emphasized more. That they were not is NOT a front office issue, it is a coaching issue. Explain that away, if you can. I will wait. The Bengals' set-up is definitely NOT ideal, but let's not fool ourselves into laying the blame for this debacle on that set-up. The blame for this season is, and should be, on ML and that staff.

Marvin failed in 2010. Badly. He also failed in 2007, badly, the last time I wanted him gone. He's done a nice job here, but he is not without massive flaws.

Frankly, things can get better for Cincy with regime change, even if there is never a f**kin' bubble.

[Sea Ray]

HC in Cincy. The organization sucks, but it's still a HC. I think the team has talent. What a draft they just had. Hell. I think the Bengals D has more talent than Dallas. Mike Zimmer will be the next Bengals head coach.

I don't hate that idea.

Are you sure about that? Word is that Zimmer and Bratkowski have been close friends for 30 yrs. Still want Zimmer if it means more Bratkowski?

Because I think Zimmer would want to be a successful coach and "mike brown" would do the fire.Plus Brat shouldn't be all that surprised does he and Alexander actually feel they deserve to keep there jobs? they should see it coming.

I don't see Zimmer taking the job unless he's got some input on coaches. I'm not convinced that Bratkowski gets canned without some prodding from the Head Coach

[jjakq27]

On ESPN they just mentioned that Marvin is considered a candidate for the San Francisco job and that the Bengals will be pressing Marvin for a decision within the next 24 to 48 hours.

[jjakq27]

http://news.cincinna...ategory=spt0204

Team meeting breaks lewis offers no hints

Monday, January 03, 2011 11:47 AM

Ochocinco has left the building, sprinting out in his Uggs. Possibly for the last time

Monday, January 03, 2011 11:37 AM

players and coaches just went into their year-end meeting which is expected to last 20 minutes

Monday, January 03, 2011 11:18 AM

[kingwilly]

Not trying to pick a fight, but "1974 working conditions"? Come on. It isn't like the Bengals are still at Spinney field. They dress for practices in a still state of the art NFL facility and practice either on specially designed practice fields or in the stadium. I don't see how a bubble would hurt either, but a part of me thinks ML is deflecting his failure with that noise and a bunch of fans are buying in way too much. Same practice conditions and same personnel set-up yielded a division champion a year ago. I cannot believe that all of a sudden they were a four win team because of no bubble. That's bulls**t. As for the front office complaint, I defy anyone to find a better draft in the last 20 years in Bengaldom than the one that was on the field this season. Gresham/Dunlap/Shipley/Atkins were all NFL ready and more than just contributed. They should have been on the field and emphasized more. That they were not is NOT a front office issue, it is a coaching issue. Explain that away, if you can. I will wait. The Bengals' set-up is definitely NOT ideal, but let's not fool ourselves into laying the blame for this debacle on that set-up. The blame for this season is, and should be, on ML and that staff.

Marvin failed in 2010. Badly. He also failed in 2007, badly, the last time I wanted him gone. He's done a nice job here, but he is not without massive flaws.

Frankly, things can get better for Cincy with regime change, even if there is never a f**kin' bubble.

1974, 1994... whatever. The building might be nice but the architecture inside is sub-standard. Coaches, the ones who JUST finished the season coaching, now must hit the road for bowl games and prep for players to draft. Find that in the other NFL buildings, where coaches carry the same chore at the level the Browns require.

Please...

I am laying the blame on all parties.

Who chose Simpson? Why did he not play? My guess is Brown picked him and ML would not play him. Who was right? SoP? Maybe but it illustrates the tension between ownership and coaching, with no layer of management between the two. This is old-school, call it 74, 84, 94 whatever. It is not state of the art.

The bubble is only a "theme", as SoP calls them. More a symbol of the issue than the issue itself.

[HairOnFire]

Not trying to pick a fight, but "1974 working conditions"? Come on. It isn't like the Bengals are still at Spinney field.

Marvin has repeatedly said the practice bubble isn't an issue....including last week when fan speculation about it grew loud enough yet again that it needed to be addressed. Frankly, the bubble trouble has become a treasured rant for Bengal fans who love conspiracy theories but it's not a serious point of contention. In fact, the day will come and a bubble will be built and fans will see how it changed nothing in the grand scheme of things.

As for the front office complaint, I defy anyone to find a better draft in the last 20 years in Bengaldom than the one that was on the field this season. Gresham/Dunlap/Shipley/Atkins were all NFL ready and more than just contributed. They should have been on the field and emphasized more. That they were not is NOT a front office issue, it is a coaching issue. Explain that away, if you can. I will wait.

Of course it's a coaching issue and there are plenty of other purely coaching realted issues that have prompted me to morph from a Marvin backer into someone that wanted him fired this season. However, things get fuzzier when you attempt to figure out exactly what Marvin wanted and why. For example, one of the nuggets he let slip was about how he first made his demands, and stuck to them, during last years bye week. In retrospect that period seems to have been a tipping point for Lewis and I'm currently tasking my fevered brain trying to recall the circumstances....without much luck. Anyone?

The Bengals' set-up is definitely NOT ideal, but let's not fool ourselves into laying the blame for this debacle on that set-up. The blame for this season is, and should be, on ML and that staff.

Absolutely. In fact, one of the things that cracks me up about my Bengal brothers is how often we insist on blaming others for individual failures. Fail as an individual in almost any role and it's usually portrayed as the fault of the next guy up the ladder. Personal responsibility is easily deflected.

Frankly, things can get better for Cincy with regime change, even if there is never a f**kin' bubble.

Fixed it for ya.

[COB]

In spite of all the "who would want to come here and coach" hyperbole, whoever does come to coach here is getting a team with some real talent.

Any coach can look at it as a job where they can win right away, as opposed to a rebuild where your stuck in the basement for a year or two.

[Kazkal]

Marvin is trying set up a meeting with the 49ers..he's contacting them not vice versa doesn't seem like he wants to come back.

[COB]

Marvin is trying set up a meeting with the 49ers..he's contacting them not vice versa doesn't seem like he wants to come back.

Agreed, everything he says indicates he wants to go elsewhere. But he could also be creating leverage for himself to use in negotiations with the Brown family.

[walzav29]

Pat Kirwan said that Marvin wants final say on 53 man roster and a bigger scouting department. That is completely reasonable. Mike did it his way. Brought in every cartoon character in the league. They went 4-12. The only hope we have is if that idiot Mike Brown wants to actually sell out the stadium. I have no confidence that he will. I just don't understand it. I know. People will say he's cheap, and he still makes money. I just think he's dumb. Football dumb. If he was cheap he wouldn't have spent the money on Antonio Bryant. That was a dumb move. I guess we'll know tomorrow.

From Marvins standpoint. I would think he would like to stay. If he can get the changes. Does anyone know his kids ages? Are they in High School? Does he have roots in the community?

I say 90 - 10 he leaves.

[Sea Ray]

You wonder what's taking so long. Supposedly Marvin has an offer to contemplate. MB is what he is and Marvin knows it better than anyone. What does he expect to happen in the next 24 hrs?

[Kazkal]

Pat Kirwan said that Marvin wants final say on 53 man roster and a bigger scouting department. That is completely reasonable. Mike did it his way. Brought in every cartoon character in the league. They went 4-12. The only hope we have is if that idiot Mike Brown wants to actually sell out the stadium. I have no confidence that he will. I just don't understand it. I know. People will say he's cheap, and he still makes money. I just think he's dumb. Football dumb. If he was cheap he wouldn't have spent the money on Antonio Bryant. That was a dumb move. I guess we'll know tomorrow.

From Marvins standpoint. I would think he would like to stay. If he can get the changes. Does anyone know his kids ages? Are they in High School? Does he have roots in the community?

I say 90 - 10 he leaves.

Pretty sure Marvin doesn't have kids atleast I've never read about them.

[COB]

On the team site Hobson just posted something that says Tuesday should be the day to find out Marvin's fate.

Then in the article he wrote this:

Bengals wide receivers Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens don't look to be back. Their nameplates are off their lockers and while Owens wasn't at the team meeting, The Ocho slipped out before the media arrived.

Hopefully the no nameplate thing will tell the story. If they were planning on paying him to come back, they'd surely leave his locker as is. It's over. It's finally over. GTFO Chad, I've absolutely had it with you.

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Tuesday-could-be-day-for-answer/086eea7e-4c34-4e7a-a060-500fcb76ed4a

[HoosierCat]

Marvin is trying set up a meeting with the 49ers..he's contacting them not vice versa doesn't seem like he wants to come back.

Well, whether he wants to come back or not, the bottom line is that right now he is basically unemployed. I don't know what the official expiration date on his deal is/was, but for all intents and purposes he is no longer HC of the CB (as BB might put it). So it shouldn't come as a surprise that he's calling around in search of a new gig.