Palmer in the no-huddle vs. ball control offense

[ArmyBengal]

It's been written that the offense has had to adjust for the changes to the offensive passing game and they lack the ability to be a really good pass protecting o-line. Thing is, this is the same line as last year for the most part and they knew they sucked at pass blocking last year even though some here still think they are good at it. Anyway, with that change, the aren't running the jumbo packages they did as much (if at all) as last year and their liability in pass blocking is amplified.

Until they figure this out, I expect things to continue down the same path.

There are two main problems for this team:

#1. Our o-line isn't anywhere near as good as some stupidass ranking said they were

#2. This team has ZERO pass rush

Since this is about the offensive side of the ball, they need to make big changes if they expect things to get better soomer rather than later and Carson isn't getting younger. About the only person on our o-line I would say I really want to see back is Whitworth. I'm serious when I say the rest can all be replaced.

[COB]

About the only person on our o-line I would say I really want to see back is Whitworth. I'm serious when I say the rest can all be replaced.

Alexander has had plenty of time. I'd say give someone else a chance. Then let the new guy evaluate the linemen and if that many of them go, so be it. For the time being, a little fire in the belly would help but we all know Alexander does not inspire.

[ArmyBengal]

I really hope they address the o-line in the 2011 draft early and often unless they plan on spending some cash in the FA market.

Seeing as how I won't be banking on that, I'll look to the draft.

[Sea Ray]

Well, then i dont get why change what got you where you wanted to go last year. Its like now they are starting over again. Brought back the same team as last year, and they go backwards.....coaching on this team sucks.

My take is if they did not "adjust philosophies" since last year they'd still be 2-2 and they'd be criticized because the league adjusted to them. There'd be posts here about how you can't stand pat in this league etc, etc.

If they'd continued to pound Cedric vs Cleveland it would not have resulted in a win. It would have been a somewhat more boring loss. The line was not opening holes for Cedric. This O-line can't handle a defense that stacks the line stopping the run.

I don't know if they can win a second division title with this line but I know they won't if they don't execute better. The mistakes have to stop.

[ArmyBengal]

Our o-line was never that good in pass protection to start and the offensive gameplan exposes thier greatest weakness.

People simply believed what some poll said about them being good.

[HairOnFire]

My take is if they did not "adjust philosophies" since last year they'd still be 2-2 and they'd be criticized because the league adjusted to them.

So in your opinion no matter what type of gameplan they used the Bengals were doomed to lose to the Browns.

If they'd continued to pound Cedric vs Cleveland it would not have resulted in a win. It would have been a somewhat more boring loss.

And this way is so much better, right? Because even though the Bengals lost we fans can now wax poetically about Palmer's passing stats and TO's big day.

Winning Ugly > Losing Pretty

[HairOnFire]

Our o-line was never that good in pass protection to start and the offensive gameplan exposes thier greatest weakness.

What's that you say? The Bengals pass first mentality now exposes their own greatest weaknesses? Well, that sounds like a mistake in planning, right?

People simply believed what some poll said about them being good.

You are what your record says you are, and as a result they were as good as their ranking precisely because the Bengals had built their offense around things the offensive line was capable of doing well. Now the gameplan asks those very players to do the very things they simply aren't talented enough to do well or consistently.

[Sea Ray]

My take is if they did not "adjust philosophies" since last year they'd still be 2-2 and they'd be criticized because the league adjusted to them.

So in your opinion no matter what type of gameplan they used the Bengals were doomed to lose to the Browns.

If they don't execute, correct. Chad's penalty hurts just as bad

[Sea Ray]

Our o-line was never that good in pass protection to start and the offensive gameplan exposes thier greatest weakness.

What's that you say? The Bengals pass first mentality now exposes their own greatest weaknesses? Well, that sounds like a mistake in planning, right?

People simply believed what some poll said about them being good.

You are what your record says you are, and as a result they were as good as their ranking precisely because the Bengals had built their offense around things the offensive line was capable of doing well. Now the gameplan asks those very players to do the very things they simply aren't talented enough to do well or consistently.

Hair, this is the bind they're in. Running is the line's greatest strength (but they're not All Pro in any area) but passing is the multimillion dollar QB's greatest strength as well as his offensive personnel. How can a team be geared to run the ball if they don't even employ a FB?

[volcom69]

Everything we keep talking about comes down to coaching. They sure thought they had a great o-line, or at least one that could be coached up, but from what im seeing not much has been learned.

All these mistakes they are making, stupid penalties, very bad execution, stupid fumbles, you would think someone would coach them up better to stop making these stupid mistakes. So either the coaches suck or we have some stupid players on this team who dont listen.

Horrible game planning, horrible game managment, not ready to play teams that you should beat, but instead they look lost, and not inspired to play.

Im starting to lose faith in Marvin and his coaching staff. All these same players are returing, with a couple big guys who should make a difference, but so far it seems to be the same result from year in to year out. Marvin helped this team to get over the hump and get to the playoffs, but his teams are so inconsistant that being great 2 years in a row just never seems to happen. Hope for Marvins sake he finds someway to right the ship again.

[HairOnFire]

Hair, this is the bind they're in. Running is the line's greatest strength (but they're not All Pro in any area) but passing is the multimillion dollar QB's greatest strength as well as his offensive personnel.

So our QB just lead the NFL in passing this week and the new WR signed in FA just topped 220 yards in receiving production. That's about as good as it's ever going to get, right? Yet we just watched as Cleveland, one of the worst teams in the NFL, controlled the game from start to finish.

So why should I want this? Why aren't we talking about what's best for Cedric Benson, Bernard Scott, the O-line itself, and the defense? Why blame an entire O-line for a coaches decision to abandon what had worked remarkably well in favor of what this team would prefer to do in a perfect world?

FWIW, here's my take on the bind the Bengals now find themselves in. Specifically, by losing to a team they should have beaten this teams margin for error was effectively reduced to a single game....with 12 to play. And if you ask me that's a pretty heavy price to pay just to see the Bengals throwing the ball around the yard again.

[Sea Ray]

Hair, this is the bind they're in. Running is the line's greatest strength (but they're not All Pro in any area) but passing is the multimillion dollar QB's greatest strength as well as his offensive personnel.

So our QB just lead the NFL in passing this week and the new WR signed in FA just topped 220 yards in receiving production. That's about as good as it's ever going to get, right? Yet we just watched as Cleveland, one of the worst teams in the NFL, controlled the game from start to finish.

So why should I want this? Why aren't we talking about what's best for Cedric Benson, Bernard Scott, the O-line itself, and the defense? Why blame an entire O-line for a coaches decision to abandon what had worked remarkably well in favor of what this team would prefer to do in a perfect world?

FWIW, here's my take on the bind the Bengals now find themselves in. Specifically, by losing to a team they should have beaten this teams margin for error was effectively reduced to a single game....with 12 to play. And if you ask me that's a pretty heavy price to pay just to see the Bengals throwing the ball around the yard again.

Nobody wants it. Turnovers, missed blocks on FG Atts and penalties can negate a lot, even a good running game, if they had one

[HairOnFire]

Nobody wants it.

Bulls**t. Last season people were whining about Benson being overworked and the need to get Bernard Scott more involved. Now we see how from the very start of the season both RB's are practically afterthoughts, TE Jermain Gresham is a featured primary weapon, and the outside WR's get 20 balls thrown their way every week regardless of the results.

"We look the way we wanted to look." --- Mike Brown, Founder, The Bastard Sons of Paul Brown

[Sea Ray]

Nobody wants it.

Bulls**t. Last season people were whining about Benson being overworked and the need to get Bernard Scott more involved. Now we see how from the very start of the season both RB's are practically afterthoughts, TE Jermain Gresham is a featured primary weapon, and the outside WR's get 20 balls thrown their way every week regardless of the results.

"We look the way we wanted to look." --- Mike Brown, Founder, The Bastard Sons of Paul Brown

I meant no one wants what we saw two days ago. I just don't think giving the rock to Benson will cure our ills. I don't think it's that simple. They still need to execute better, learn the snap count and not turn the ball over

[HoosierCat]

If they'd continued to pound Cedric vs Cleveland it would not have resulted in a win. It would have been a somewhat more boring loss. The line was not opening holes for Cedric. This O-line can't handle a defense that stacks the line stopping the run.

I don't know if they can win a second division title with this line but I know they won't if they don't execute better. The mistakes have to stop.

Somebody give the boat a cigar.

[ArmyBengal]

You are what your record says you are, and as a result they were as good as their ranking precisely because the Bengals had built their offense around things the offensive line was capable of doing well. Now the gameplan asks those very players to do the very things they simply aren't talented enough to do well or consistently.

The Bengals had built their offense around the things the offensive line was capable of doing well you say and I'm cool with that.

What I think is, what this o-line was capable of doing well was only possible due to the fact they were able to beef up the o-line with another OT because our TE spot went to sh*t when Kelly, Utecht, and Coffman were on IR or incapable of making any impact.

Now that they don't have that extra OT at the TE spot, there aren't the same holes there were last season. Couple that with the TE being expected to run routes and you have an o-line that needs to pass block better and THAT was their main weakness last season.

Their high ranking was based on that premise. A premise that no longer exists due to the style of offense we are now seeing.

It's the same reason many of us were calling for o-line draft picks early and often headed into the 2010 draft.

Sorry but seeing Benson run for big yards this weekend against the worst run D won't prove much to me.

I'll take it, but it won't mean much in terms of how we will fare when going up against the Steelers D.

But then again, whatever makes people smile...

[HairOnFire]

Somebody give the boat a cigar.

Why? For making an empty claim that the Bengals would have lost even if they would have tried doing what has worked in the past? Or for claiming they won't win another division title if they...(wait for it)...don't stop making mistakes?

Is it any wonder you were already mowing your lawn while the 4th quarter of the last game was being played? Were you even watching when your boy Chad douched the team out of FG range?

Here's what I'm hearing from most of you guys. Let's pass more. In fact, how about going No-Huddle all the time. And more passes to Gresham. And Shipley too, as soon as he wakes up. And while we're at it, how about finding an entirely new offensive line because the one we got doesn't pass block very well....which is all we want to do. Last, if this team can't beat the likes of Cleveland by passing, well....why not pass even more since it's a much more entertaining way to lose.

Point blank, there's been absolutely no commitment shown to the running game since the moment this season started, and if you don't think that lack of commitment is going to show up when they do try to run then I'm guessing a fine cigar would be wasted on the likes of you.

[HoosierCat]

Here's what I'm hearing from most of you guys.

I guess by "most" you mean "people other than Hoosier." What I have said is if they want to win, quit turning ball over.

That's why they lost. And that's why the boat get a cigar.

[HairOnFire]

What I think is, what this o-line was capable of doing well was only possible due to the fact they were able to beef up the o-line with another OT because our TE spot went to sh*t when Kelly, Utecht, and Coffman were on IR or incapable of making any impact.

You're preaching to the converted. All I'll add is that the TE position only went to s**t in regards to catching the ball. Well, that and the greatest trick this coaching staff ever pulled off was making a positive out of the wreckage that was the TE corp. But that same coaching staff quickly flushed their handiwork as soon as it was possible due to it's desire/demand that pass catchers be available everywhere. As a result the Bengals are better on paper, especially on offensive stat pages, yet worse in the won/loss standings.

Their high ranking was based on that premise. A premise that no longer exists due to the style of offense we are now seeing.

A change to a style of offense that appeals to cross dressers, fantasy football geeks, and the BSOPB. Yet amazingly, despite a hollow Top 10 ranking nobody seems happy with the offense right now. Probably because the offense has been far too inept to be prettied up by a few crap stats.

It's the same reason many of us were calling for o-line draft picks early and often headed into the 2010 draft.

Actually, as I recall there weren't that many of us calling for O-line help. In fact, I'd have to say that my pimping of Pouncey in the 1st round was met with shrugs of indifference or gentle mocking. And yeah, most of those voices who were calling for more weapons here, there, and everywhere are the very same voices now pointing to the O-line as this teams biggest weakness...as if they just figured out the rest of the puzzle.

Sorry but seeing Benson run for big yards this weekend against the worst run D won't prove much to me.

I'll take it, but it won't mean much in terms of how we will fare when going up against the Steelers D.

If they played next week the Steelers would kick the living s**t out of this team. Hell, the Browns just kicked the living s**t out of this team. So all that's left to do now is sit back and hope that the pass happy idiots running the show can figure out how to beat other teams with a passing game that even it's proponents admit is too mistake prone to beat anyone, including the Cleveland's of the world.

[cincyhokie]

Here's an idea.

Pass more in the first quarter or half, actually build a lead. Then run the sh*t out of the ball. Everybody will be happy.

The Bengals don't have the talent on the o-line to just enforce their will on teams through the run game. The Bengals CAN'T sneak up on teams with the unbalanced line play this year. We have been WAY too predictive since midway of last season.

Being down 10-0, 20-10, 23-10 isn't conducive to being run predominant. Oh by the way, did anyone else notice how the o-line was getting BLOWN off the ball against the Browns? The only way they were going to win was doing exactly what they did. In the end, turnovers killed them.

Use your ***damn receiving weapons, punch someone in the mouth from the coinflip and then use Benson to stomp on their throats after you get a 14 point lead. Be f**king aggressive. Use your talent! (See 1990's Cowboys and Emmit Smith)

[HairOnFire]

I guess by "most" you mean "people other than Hoosier."

Exactly.

What I have said is if they want to win, quit turning ball over.

Your grasp of the obvious is impressive. Do you by any chance have a newsletter filled with other pithy analysis that I might purchase?

That's why they lost. And that's why the boat get a cigar.

Correction: You awarded the boat an imaginary cigar either because you agreed with his empty claim about how the Bengals would have lost against Cleveland under any circumstance or because you agreed with his claim that they won't win a 2nd division title with the very same O-line that allowed them to sweep the division last year. Frankly, both claims are crap since the Bengals routinely beat Cleveland in the recent past by running the ball, and if they can't win the division this year it's likely due to a change in strategy that you've supported at every turn despite your admission that the O-line isn't talented enough to be a pass first group.

Thus, I'm hereby awarding both of you imaginary victory cigars for your role in last weeks imaginary victory. After all, this is exactly what you wanted and I'm sure it will all work out just as you've always claimed it would. Losing to the hapless Browns is probably just a bump in the road, right?

[HairOnFire]

Be agressive. Punch 'em in the mouth. But don't even think about running the ball until you're up by multiple scores?

What the f**k is wrong with you people?

[HoosierCat]

What I have said is if they want to win, quit turning ball over.

Your grasp of the obvious is impressive. Do you by any chance have a newsletter filled with other pithy analysis that I might purchase?

No, but I'll take that as confirmation that despite you ravings, you do know that it was turnovers and not the passing game that produced a loss in Cleveland.

[HairOnFire]

No, but I'll take that as confirmation that despite you ravings, you do know that it was turnovers and not the passing game that produced a loss in Cleveland.

Fact: The Bengals passed like crazy against one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Fact: The pass happy Bengals trailed in that game from start to finish, and lost to a previously winless team.

Fact: Everything else is spin.

[HoosierCat]

No, but I'll take that as confirmation that despite you ravings, you do know that it was turnovers and not the passing game that produced a loss in Cleveland.

Fact: The Bengals passed like crazy against one of the worst teams in the NFL.

Fact: The pass happy Bengals trailed in that game from start to finish, and lost to a previously winless team.

Fact: Everything else is spin.

Only one here spinning is you. Fact: teams that are -2 on turnover ratio lose 80% of those games, whether they run, pass or watusi on the sideline.

Everything else is spin.